Iron Warrior Questions

[Warmammer]

Ok my questions are:

 

1. What would be a good named HQ to roll with my CSM apart from Huron.

 

2. What would be a good sized group of terminators and what upgrades to give them.

 

3. How many vehicle would be good in a 1500pt list

 

Thanks Warmammer

[Brother Nihm]

1. Warpsmith? fluffy, but not the best pick.

 

2. http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/index.p...howtopic=265985

 

3. Entirely depends on terrain, opponent, what you want them to do, and the mission being played. :(

[the jeske]

1. What would be a good named HQ to roll with my CSM apart from Huron.

anything that isnt a warpsmith or a dark apostol

 

2. What would be a good sized group of terminators and what upgrades to give them.

3x3 with combi plsma

2x7-8 with combi plasma 1-2 ax 2maces 2 swords and 1-2 fists

 

3. How many vehicle would be good in a 1500pt list

for chaos ? optimal is not possible but it should be 6-7 minimum .Am not counting av 11 stuff.

[Warmammer]

another question i just thought of is what marks would be good all of the units

[the jeske]

which units? how many points played with how many and what HQs used? with or without ally ?

[Iron_Within]

What's wrong with the Dark Apostle and Warpsmith?

 

The Warpsmith in my experience is excellent as a support HQ for my Iron Warriors. Worth using if you have vehicles in your army for the repair roll. And if he's there he can man the Quad Autocannon if he's not busy with repairs.

 

The Dark Apostle looks good to me on paper for All comers. Plonking him with an assault unit mean's they'll have hatred. I'm thinking of testing out a Berzerker/Lord/DA in a Land Raider for fun as a death star. No good against Necrons (but what is?) but there you go. Of he's only good against Marines if he's using his radius Ld 10 for several units

[Brother Ambroz]

I agree somewhat with the Warpsmith, I think he's got some uses people don't give him much credit for, such as in a vehicle heavy list.

 

The DA on the other hand though, he is just bad for what he does. There's always a better choice you could make other than use him. In the example you made for instance, just take Khârn as your warlord and you have a far more killy HQ that gives Hatred.

[the jeske]

only 2w , no acces to bikes , no access to weapons or gear .

not huron/lord/sorc where we have 2 slots

apostol brings no utility , his ld bubble has too small range . our units that do hth have veteran anyway so more re-rolls is just a win more option or gets wasted.

paying 100pts to man a quad gun , when you can pay 65 for a naked lord and the naked lord can do something actualy useful like make troops out of cult units ?

 

what vehicles are you reparing ?

drakes ? no they are too far up . rhinos ? they will be dead sooner then needing repair ? preds or fiends ? ok so not your repair those and just put points equal to a pred to have a chance to repair one . more preds will live longer then , fewer preds and an option to repair them .

 

etc etc etc.

[Brother Ambroz]

I've read a few reports where the smiths have done decently in vehicle heavy lists. He had them repairing defilers and forgefiends. Repair + It Will Not Die is pretty decent.

[Sception]

HQs for Iron Warriors, eh?

 

If you're looking for a named HQ's rules to use in proxy for an Iron Warriors character, I'd go for Typhus. His added survivability, and that of nurgle stuff in particular, can represent by excessive bionics, and his zombies can represent servitors, robots, and cyborgs. Game-wise he's a super tough chaos lord with a mess of AP2 attacks who is also a sorcerer. He's pricey, points wise, and slow, so he's not exactly the most tournament-competitive of characters, particularly if you're not running allied daemon tally (as iron warriors, you'd be running allied guard or necrons to represent dark mechanicus stuff). But he's plenty good for casual games, once you're running enough points to field him.

 

Another option is Bile, who you could run as bile - he sells his services to all the legions - or as an Iron Warrior's cybertek augmenting your troops. Not the most game-play effective, but could be fluffy and fun.

 

For unnamed characters, Chaos Lord on bike with black mace or (especially) Axe of Blinding Fury is always popular. As are sorcerers - bike or no, mark or no. Both are highly competitive choices

 

A daemon prince with wings, armor, and the black mace is extremely brutal and quite fun. Suffers from high points cost and vulnerability to instant death, making it perhaps not the most competitive of choices, but I've seen them even in tourney lists. The IW player at my local store loves his, made from an Inquisitor space marine converted to be more chaosy with a scatch built jump pack and giant hammer. Result is a suitably Iron Warriorsesque daemon prince.

 

I don't hate the Warpsmith. It is one of our weaker HQ options in terms of what it brings to the table for its points and slots, but it has some interesting unique abilities, a bunch of AP2 attacks, a good armor save, looks pretty cool, and as an iron warriors player matches your fluff. I've tried marching one up the field with a blob of chaos marines and a walker or two to support, and gave him the burning brand, and he did pretty decent for himself. I've heard of him running in a land raider bunker and keeping the thing moving (might try the FW elite choice proteus, here), and while I'm somewhat skeptical, it did seem to get some positive results. I say go for it, you're iron warriors, and if you don't like it run him as a khorne lord with the AoBF

 

As a side note, try mounting a bike on the edge of a scenic 60mm base with room to place another HQ on it, and use that to give a bike to an infantry HQ model that you think needs one in a given game.

 

If you can find a way to justify it, via proxy or whatever, Huron's arguably our best HQ choice all together. So if you're just looking for something effective, convert an Iron Warriors stand in for that guy.

 

-----------------------------------------

 

The problems with the Dark Apostle (note that I don't hate this guy completely, and will try to say some nice things at the end):

 

The leadership bubble is too small to catch more than one unit (outside of the one he's already joined) without excessive exposure to template weapons.

 

He grants fearless to the unit he joins, which is nice, but the Lord does that already for about the same points with vastly better stats and options, and several of our units are already fearless, or have the option to buy an icon of vengeance for far cheaper than an apostle if they really want it. Yeah, the icon can be sniped, but so can the apostle - he's not going to survive a basilisk shell.

 

He grants hatred to the unit he joins, but our units can (and generally do) already buy hatred against the enemies we're most likely to face and to need it against. Some units have to pay extra for it, making the apostle seem better, but those units also tend to cost too much on their own, and the apostle can't even take terminator armor or a jump pack to run with those units. Obviously, the fewer loyalist marines you play against, the better this ability looks, but even if you only ever play against crons, eldar, & orcs, it's still not all that.

 

He comes with a mace that he's already paid for, but has the champions of chaos rule that is likely to force him into challenges. In general, a mace isn't the best challenge weapon, unless eldar & orks are your main opponents.

 

He cannot ride a bike, wear a jump pack, or put on terminator armor, severely limiting the units you're allowed to join him to. Infantry assault units, which are what he's left with to support, aren't exactly fantastic in our book.

 

He's expensive, but has relatively poor stats and options. You're taking him as a support/buff character, but as described above, he just doesn't do all that much of that, and he takes up a precious HQ slot, one that could be spent on Huron or Ahriman for infiltrating units, a slaaneshi lord to outflank a unit, a khorne lord or daemon prince to smash face, or a sorcerer for some more meaningful support & buffs. Even the warpsmith, also much maligned (and not entirely unfairly) does more and had more interesting abilities.

 

 

 

ALL THAT SAID, the Dark Apostle isn't entirely bad. I wouldn't normally field one in games of less than 2k points due to slots, but in games of 2k+, I could see spending a 3rd or 4th HQ slot for an apostle in a large unit of chaos marines, with the apostle granting fearless, saving you a few points on VotLW, freeing your icon for maybe the slaaneshi one, and while his leadership aura won't extend far, it should reach far enough to keep a single unit of 35 cultists in place as a bodyshield (normally cultists just don't work that way, and are better off as min size objective campers, because their leadership is just too poor).

 

Still not the best use of slots or points, mind, but he wouldn't feel entirely useless. Even then, you could drop him, and put a lord in those cultists instead, and just give the unit they're screening vets like you normally would.

 

 

In the end, if you decide you don't like the apostle, you can still run him as a lord with a black mace. Such isn't terrible, though it would be better on a bike.

 

 

 

I like the apostle as an idea, though I do wish they had put a bit more thought into giving it some buffs that we wouldn't otherwise had, and freed up its equipment and options a bit. I like my apostle conversion, and I'll run him sometimes just for fun, even in smaller games. Not every army has to be honed to a competitive edge, and not every opponent has bothered to adapt their army to be as strong as possible in the new 6e environment.

[Warmammer]

which units? how many points played with how many and what HQs used? with or without ally ?

 

 

i was thinking along the lines of terminators, chaos space marines, bikes, obliterators, mutilator and on generic lords. the point limit is normally 1500pts with the occasional 2000pt game.

 

and i was thinking not to use ally

[Ifrit446]

Like Malisteen said, Typhus would be my go-to character for Iron Warriors. Servitor zombies sounds like a blast to use rather than actual zombies.

 

Other than that, I've considered using Huron (I know you originally did not want to), but the conversions for Huron could come out pretty awesome. For the Iron Warriors, I could see a shiny armored Champion with the axe and claw in hand and then a techmarine backpack with a flamer-wielding servo arm :lol:

[derpasaurus]

one of the best all around bang for your buck named HQs is definitely huron. also, he is like half bionics, it'd fit the theme. fabius bile is ok, less randomly murdery of your own folks than he used to be, iirc, and his buffs could be subbed out for unpredictable bionics or whatnot. typhus is expensive, but definitely could counts as for bionic heavy terminator lord and gives you some SICK options for cultists. if you absolutely don't want them, you can make some really nasty unnamed ones, too, tho, just depends on what flavor you're going for.

 

i like my terminators as a pack of 5, and they're geared to mash vehicles and other terminators. combimeltas, power/chain fists, and axes. terminators do great with tzeentch for a 4++ save, nurgle's not bad, either. t5 terminators are scary.

 

as for vehicles, i don't run too many but i'm getting ready to grab a few of the new models. i have 2 rhinos to haul my troops in, (2 x10 with dual plas) and a vindicator (if you play iron warriors and don't have at least one of those, shame on you! lol) predators are nice, but i'm looking to pick up a forgefiend. sure you lose the s9 lascannons, but you go from 3 shots to 8. slightly less BS but still averaging 4 hits to 2. also the only way us chaos dudes can get a plasma template if you add that, or heck replace it all and get 3 of the things. maulerfiend melts faces, also a good choice if you want to punch things instead. also also, 12 armor with a 5++ and it will not die. :lol: very nice package. at least 1 heldrake, absolutely. lots of people are running "double dragon." maybe look at some helbrutes, they get some nice shooty toys.

 

as for an actual number of vehicles, it just depends. 3 drakes in fast attack would quite possibly be overkill, and you could bypass havocs and field 3 various vehicles for heavy suport. if you transport up all your troops you could have upwards of 8 or 9 vehicles on the board with a single force org.

[zyl-]

If you are going for armor saturation, obliterators may not be the better choice. In the games that I've played with a lot of vehicles I've found that obliterators are out of place and rapidly die in large volleys of small arms fire then I just wish I had another tank. It's a gamble that your opponents weapons that CAN damage a tank are either not numerous enough or not effective enough to demolish your tanks too fast. In the case of obliterators, most opponents know that since small arms are generally not useful against you, they will focus any squads without heavy weapons on the obliterators for an easy kill. Tough as they may be, you are very likely to die if forced to take 10 saves where another tank brought would have made the small arms fire totally useless.

 

We don't honestly have the best of choices for a high armor list, so it's pretty much hellbrutes in the elite slots (though you can get a landraider with terminators), and tanks or engines for heavy slots. Of course I'm talking strictly about armor saturation, so take it with a grain of salt since there are plenty of other ways to build an army.

[Dar'kir]

I agree with afew of the other, Huron is a good choice. As for marks, I personally don't run any on my regular CSM squads, although I do use Bezerkers. If I did choose to I would use the mark of Nurgle, as stated above T5 CSMs can be rather scary. I like the Heldrake for a fast attack and at least one Forgefiend. Well, thats my two cents.