carnosaur93 Posted December 22, 2012 Share Posted December 22, 2012 simple question, what it sais in the title... note that the reminder of the army will mostly consist of scouts, thunderfires, and a couple of dreads... atleast from the models that i currently own also i would love some explanations as to why or why not it would be a good idea :lol: :EDIT: hmm... just thought of another alternative for re-rolly goodness... for the same points, i could have two allied SW not-psykers and have the "reroll to-hit" divination power plus another random from the core rulebook. i would however also have to buy atleast a 5-man grey hunter pack to fill out the ally FOC, and a pod to get the rune priests where i need them Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/268289-is-it-worth-loosing-combat-tactics/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giga Posted December 22, 2012 Share Posted December 22, 2012 Droppoded lysander + sternguard can be a good idea, but IMHO you should keep the sternguard unit as small and as cheap as possible. Sure, a big sternguard unit will kill something on the turn it droppods on the table, but afterwards it's probably going to be wiped out regardless if it's a 5 men or 10 men unit, and then Lysander will be on his own. So give them 5 combimeltas, stick them in a drop pod, and try to take out a land raider or a monolith or something expensive like that on turn 1. But generally, I don't like it. It's a very hit and miss tactic, and the opponent can deploy to make it impossible for you to get shots at anything useful, so your deathstar will end up destroying a rhino or something cheap like that on turn 1. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/268289-is-it-worth-loosing-combat-tactics/#findComment-3267844 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bannus Posted December 22, 2012 Share Posted December 22, 2012 I can definitely say "maybe". Lysander does provide a serious boost to Sternguard - but he is expensive, better in close combat (where Sternguard are not) and does really shape the army. What I am really saying is that you shouldn't decide to take Lysander to boost your Sternguard. You should decide to take Lysander because he boosts your army and take Sternguard to complement Lysander. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/268289-is-it-worth-loosing-combat-tactics/#findComment-3267845 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkGuard Posted December 22, 2012 Share Posted December 22, 2012 The main thing to ask yourself if whether boosting one unit is worth it being detrimental the other units in your army. Yes, Stubborn is a detriment compared to Combat Tactics, which gives your so much flexibility. Personally I'd say no, take a Libby, and save a ton of points. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/268289-is-it-worth-loosing-combat-tactics/#findComment-3267943 Share on other sites More sharing options...
carnosaur93 Posted December 23, 2012 Author Share Posted December 23, 2012 thanks for the input... seems what ive gotten my head around to over the day is not way off, then, that this is not really worth it... i guess i did kinda suspect that from the start though, otherwise i wouldnt ha asked ;) what do you all think of the rune-priest idea though? in my head it would offer quite great support to an in-your-face close range shooting vanilla army... the idea is that the priest-pod drop down between some readily deployed scouts, then joins the squads and starts using their awesome buffs left, right and center, making the trainee's that can only hit the cruiser-deck with a mop, suddenly become gunslinging space supermen... the grey hunters will pretty much just be a sacraficial suicide unit, though... possibly with a free flamer for novelty of roasted hordes Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/268289-is-it-worth-loosing-combat-tactics/#findComment-3268047 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giga Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 Rune priests are awesome, but from what I hear, MEQ with MEQ allies isn't the hottest thing to have. Your army still has the same weaknesses as before (no cheap troops, no anti-flyer), so you'd be better off just getting guard allies overall. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/268289-is-it-worth-loosing-combat-tactics/#findComment-3268253 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brom MKIV Posted December 24, 2012 Share Posted December 24, 2012 I say no. Lysander does buff the unit but IMO its not so much his rerolls that matter as it is his wound soaking ability and his combat potential which will deter assaults. I have used up to 30 sternguard before with pedro and stubborn is a death sentence. Much better to retain combat tactics and just spend those 200 pts on more sternguard or troops as opposed to a single unit with rerolls. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/268289-is-it-worth-loosing-combat-tactics/#findComment-3269307 Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaganLinuxGeek Posted January 20, 2013 Share Posted January 20, 2013 You COULD take a second HQ and choose their tactics instead. Personally I love Lysander's boost to shooting. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/268289-is-it-worth-loosing-combat-tactics/#findComment-3289604 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkGuard Posted January 20, 2013 Share Posted January 20, 2013 You COULD take a second HQ and choose their tactics instead. Personally I love Lysander's boost to shooting. Not really worth it in most games, as then you're paying tons of points for your HQs. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/268289-is-it-worth-loosing-combat-tactics/#findComment-3289744 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Excubitor Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 One thing I've been tempted to do is take an "allies" force of a DA Libby with mastery level 2 and a unit of scouts with snipers and camo cloaks. Gives you access to Divination, and a backfield scoring unit (that I tend to take anyway), without costing too many points or taking anything away. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/268289-is-it-worth-loosing-combat-tactics/#findComment-3290401 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkGuard Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 That would be a good option. Cheap, and Divination is amazing. That's something I think I'd do on a regular basis. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/268289-is-it-worth-loosing-combat-tactics/#findComment-3291097 Share on other sites More sharing options...
carnosaur93 Posted February 1, 2013 Author Share Posted February 1, 2013 yeah... that does seem like an excellent idea... the new DA wasnt out yet when i started the thread though, but it seems to be the way to go at it Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/268289-is-it-worth-loosing-combat-tactics/#findComment-3296558 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Drunk Guardian Posted February 9, 2013 Share Posted February 9, 2013   Droppoded lysander + sternguard can be a good idea, but IMHO you should keep the sternguard unit as small and as cheap as possible. Sure, a big sternguard unit will kill something on the turn it droppods on the table, but afterwards it's probably going to be wiped out regardless if it's a 5 men or 10 men unit, and then Lysander will be on his own. So give them 5 combimeltas, stick them in a drop pod, and try to take out a land raider or a monolith or something expensive like that on turn 1. But generally, I don't like it. It's a very hit and miss tactic, and the opponent can deploy to make it impossible for you to get shots at anything useful, so your deathstar will end up destroying a rhino or something cheap like that on turn 1.   I think Lysander and Sternguard are a nice complement but with the changes to 6E, I'd drop the PF I used to put on the SG sergeant and the C-M I used to give the Sternguard and outfit the entire unit with combi-flamers. Lysander boosts their boltguns but none of their combi-weapons. Ideally you'd want to actually use the bolters upon landing, and then the combi-flamers essentially provide you with an overwatch wall of death which would make them extremely scary to assault (so that stubborn isn't nearly as bad). You'd also need, at minimum, one more drop pod so that you could hold back Lysander and crew in case no viable targets present themselves on turn 1. I would think an army like this needs to find a way to get some targets out in the open before Lysander hits. Also Lysander is very nice for denying "slay the warlord" AND for the warlord traits table. Nice little boosts in this edition. Not to mention he's a great linebreaker as well. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/268289-is-it-worth-loosing-combat-tactics/#findComment-3300622 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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