Played my first 6th ed game

[Rizara]

Hello all my space wolf brethren. Friday I got to play my first game in 6th edition. Overall I lost everything in the army by the end of turn 4, i still had a speeder and two drop pods left, but the game was lost and to be honest my dice really failed me after turn 1.

 

In a nut shell, I played against chaos. I don't know all the details of his list, but he had Khârn the betrayer, a warsmith with a demon weapon, two units of berserkers in rhinos, two units of chaos marines with plasma guns in rhinos, 2 vindicators, that hell drake, a dread with twin linked lascannon and missle launcher, and the new demon mauler thing (hand to hand variant).

 

My list consisted of a rune priest with runic armor, living lightning and the power that provides a cover save (which I never used). I also had a long fang pack with missle launchers with a wg in tda with cyclone missle launcher. I had two units of grey hunters, both small with wg attached, meltagun and in razorbacks with assault cannons. I had two dreadnoughts 1 with assault cannon and CCW the other with lascannon and CCW. I took a land raider redeemer with multimelta, and had 2 grey hunter packs in drop pods, 1 was 9 with wg with frostblade, the other was 8 strong with a tda wg with SS and PF. I had a drop pod with a battle leader with ss and frost axe and wg pack, with tda/heavy flamer, 2 tda with combi meltas and power axe/mace, 2 in power armor, 1 with frost blade and pistol, the other with power sword and plasma pistol.

 

The battle was set up in that diagonal set up, and was the relic mission. Chaos got to go first.

 

Basically first turn, I lost all my missle launchers out of my long fangs in the opening shot. It was all I really lost my first turn, everything else in the chaos army either fell short or rolled bad. Then I opened up my turn with drop pods and moving stuff, and I took out a vindicator, a rhino and unit of berserkers within, damaged the Khârn rhino so he had to go on foot, and damaged the other two rhinos. First turn I took a hit but I still felt I was doing good. That was my best turn, after that, everything else went south. My dice were bad, I ended up losing units. I then lost an entire grey hunter squad that dropped in to the other vindicator. One of my dreads became immobolized behind a building, and the other was shaken. My land raider was charged by the big demon engine and down to one hull point luckily not destroyed. I decidied to remove the squads out of the razor back and assist the landraider with the meltas, and the razorbacks became just mobile weapons taking pot shots at units slowly whittling down the berserkers that were with Khârn and the marines with the warsmith. Turn 3 I lost my raider, and another grey hunter squad, my wolf guard put a hurting on a unit of chaos marines but couldn't chase them down, and Khârn ate my rune priest and remaing long fang pack leader and wolf guard with cyclone, plus a dreadnought. Lucky for me, he was promoted to a demon prince so actually became slightly less of a threat, but only slightly. Turn 3 also saw that helldrake come in, and he finish that last drop pod long fang unit. After that the helldrake really didn't do anything else but harass my other dread that wasn't moving. Turn 4 I held the relic, but died from all the shooting that came from the remaining marines, and the dreadnought, and was finished off by the warsmith.

 

In the end I did learn alot about 6th edition. I even learned that the drop podding worked great, but my dice need replacing. Once again, long fangs were a waste of points for me, and as always I never get to make any use of them.

 

In a nut shell, any suggestions on what I can replace the long fangs with that will be effective as for mobile firepower. My only stars on my side were the twin linked assault cannons that were on my razorbacks and redeemer. Those beasts worked wonders with rending.

I am also thinking that wolf guard leaders that I took in my units need to be replace with cheaper ones or removed entirely. Are wolf guard leaders really worth it, or should I just max my drop pod grey hunters out to 10 and take two assault weapons instead of the wolf guard. Also I have learned the value of rending, and really thinking I should drop the fist/power weapon out of my grey hunter units and take one with mark of the wulfen instead and maybe a plasma pistol for extra kills from shooting.

 

Also the rune priest although looks cool and the ideas are their, also felt wasted in my army. Living lighting really didn't do much, again my dice were against me the entire fight, so at best I got maybe 3 shots with it, and I think just 1 kill. Also since he was in runic armor and not in tda he had no invunerable save against Khârn. Also neither of my leaders packed any real punch. My list was more of a using what I had, and using a cheaper hq more units mentality. One guy who was watching the game said I really needed to get a hammer unit, as I had plenty of anvil units, but lacked anything with real punch. He suggested thunderwolves as they are fast and hit hard.

 

So based on my playstyle, would a list do well enough with out long fangs if I can keep some mobile shooting in it, as stationary shooting doesn't work well for me apparently. What would be better to take for a main army general who can dish some dmg, ragnar or a thunderwolf lord. Should I take thunderwolf calvary, they are expensive, but would they do well in a list with 3 drop pod and two razorback grey hunter squads. The only thing that seemed to work well for me was taking 2 razorback units and 3 drop pods.

 

I am thinking I should keep that in mind, but get 5 grey hunter squads instead, perhaps with no wolf guard except in the two smaller units (for combi weapons only), and just swap the assault weapons around to plasma guns on the RB squads and meltas on the drop podding ones so they can pop tanks.

 

Also is arjac worth the points taking him as an upgrade. I have read that thunderhammers aren't as effective as they once were, and power fists do the same thing for less, so wasn't sure if having arjac would be worth taking, or would I be better off taking more mobile firepower instead of spending the points on that wolf guard upgrade. As for mobile firepower, I am thinking either vindis of my own, or some land speeders to zip around and harass the enemy, at least with speeders I can get on side flanks and behind tanks for better dmg.

 

Sorry my thoughts on this are completely random. It's just that the first battle in 6th was rather frustrating and disappointing at the same time, as I really felt my army lacked any real punch in the new edition.

[Brom MKIV]

Greetings brother and happy holidays. Both lists look decent but not completely optimized, which is how I roll. In fact your list is similar to what I prefer (3 pods, 3 tl asscan RBs, vindis and long fangs). I agree with your assessment that rending is great this edition, especially TL asscans. It seems to me your dice betrayed you and you let Khârn get into your backfield, unless im reading the report wrong but thats my impression. I would not focus too much on him honestly, shoot his ride and let him slog, Khârn dies to long fangs well enough. Regarding specific units:

 

-tool the wolf guard pack up with combi plasmas. These guys can arrive after youve popped kharns ride and erase him and his unit (possibly with the help of some supportive fire). Alternately they can arrive turn 1 for high priority targets.

 

-It doesnt appear that you have much of a firebase to speak of. For this reason I would really advise against losing those long fangs. In fact your idea to include a couple vindis is a solid one and they work amazingly well now both as anti infantry and as anti tank.

 

-Drop the lascannon dread for a lonewolf with tda cf/ss. This guy will tackle opposing daemon engines and Khârn, just let him hover around the area of your firebase along with the asscan dread to counter assault.

 

-wolf guard pack leaders are ok, great if in TDA with power axe/combi weapon (i.e. slogging or pods not rhinos). I would keep these since with a wolf standard and/or moral support they will absorb insane punishment and if nothing else they can tie up Khârn for an additional turn thanks to challenges. As for whether or not to take them vs full packs with free 2nd special, I think this is a preference really. For me If I have pts for full packs in pods I take the full pack, if I need to save pts without losing too much efficiency I go with 6-7 GHs plus the wgpl with combi weapon. I usually prefer a suit of TDA in every unit possible though for challenging dudes like mephiston or other ap3+ ICs.

 

-Regarding the rune priest, millage will vary but he is still the most cost effective HQ we have. Denying psych on 4+ in 24" range is the second best protection in the multiverse currently. He is not a combat character by any stretch but the 2+ does help quite a bit against baleflamers and in combat. Wolf lords are fine too but if only aiming for a single HQ id stick with the priest. Also remember that you will likely need the priest plus those long fangs to tackle flyers, although the TL asscans help out quite a bit here.

 

-Lose the redeemer. It doesnt seem to serve any purpose so your operating with a 250 pt handicap, plus redeemers took a hit this edition with the changes to snapfire etc.

 

-Lastly can you elaborate on the long fangs? Im curious on your deployment, firing lanes, blow by blow account basically. I run an identical unit to yours and its usually an MVP. I also run 2 vindis and babysit all 3 with a lone wolf and an asscan dread. The dread is for fun but he actually does very well in this role. The lone wolf is always good.

 

Overall it sounds like your army did fine except for dice and Khârn got into your backfield, oh and possibly had some deployment issues with the long fangs? idk but id make a few minor changes like the raider for 2 vindis and the second dread for a lone wolf. From there work on fixing problems via deployment, target priority and so on. Cheers.

 

Edit- regarding arjac and hammer units, I personally dont feel arjac is worth including, mostly because he isnt a HQ choice. As for hammer units, I feel that barring th/ss terminators and the like, hammer units have changed to become those units capable of shooting and combat, i.e. the space wolf army in general. I dont feel a hammer unit is necessary, although they can be fun. Just my opinion.

[bebe]

I have only just started playing Wolves in 6ed - I have a 1500 [point list which I augment with battle sisters for higher point games). I actually find that C:CSM is one of the better match ups for SW. DoC with flamers and screamers is much worse for me. I play a pretty similar list

 

RP with divination and MotR - Divination is almost OP when sitting back with a LF unit with 5 MLS and a CML. This is my MVP unit most games. But try dibvination - it really makes a difference casting prescience.

 

I have three Pods - 2 with 8 GH and WG w/ PF and a combi-melta w/ a single melta GH and a Multi-melta Dread. Well, games are decided often by first blood and linebreaker. These units help with both. I love dropping two pods turn one. When i go up to 2000, theres guys have ST. Celestine and Seraphim to back their plays. Pods in 6ed are very good. You can now deploy out of them up to 6". That means scatter is becoming all but irrelevant. This a a huge boost.

 

I GH squad with plasma and dual plasma pistol WG w/ my Wolf Priest w/ meltabomb. No one really likes assaulting a unit with a WP but it happens. It'd truly the plasma I want.

 

Another plasma cannon squad of LF. Plasma cannons are too good in 6ed. With the new rules they even work against vehicles. But they are there for the Teq and MCs.

 

So a lot of the elements you have in your larger list and truly i have had no major issues with it. In fact my record has been decent ...

 

Now as regards WG - I only have one with TDA - he sits with the long fangs. The plasma cannon one has a lone storm bolter ( I need the fifth WG) and one had dual plasma pistole ( the gunslinger ). The other two are combi-melta/PF. The cost of these guys is only slightly higher than a regular GH, they get more attacks, boost the leadership and are characters. Why would you not use WG?

 

My advice - your list looks okay. You had a bad game. Play a few more before abandoning the core.

[Russ Brother 92]

Hello all my space wolf brethren...

 

In a nut shell, any suggestions on what I can replace the long fangs with that will be effective as for mobile firepower. My only stars on my side were the twin linked assault cannons that were on my razorbacks and redeemer. Those beasts worked wonders with rending.

I am also thinking that wolf guard leaders that I took in my units need to be replace with cheaper ones or removed entirely. Are wolf guard leaders really worth it, or should I just max my drop pod grey hunters out to 10 and take two assault weapons instead of the wolf guard. Also I have learned the value of rending, and really thinking I should drop the fist/power weapon out of my grey hunter units and take one with mark of the wulfen instead and maybe a plasma pistol for extra kills from shooting.

 

Okay first things first - how many points was this? also, I would suggest against removing Long Fangs from your force completely, they are pound for pound one of the best heavy support you can get no matter which codex you use, the forte for them being in targetting two units at once - I'd suggest running two packs (one being plasma cannons and lascannons (these guys can and will take out terminators, landraiders and everything in between) and another with missile launchers as they can hit two units (useful if you're up vs MeQ, take out the transport then the unit inside).

 

Secondly - I personally would max out the GH units, even in a pod - two specials are imo. always better than 1 and a combi, these guys will hold their own, not so sure about taking MoTW over a PW, I'd drop the Fist and take either a Sword or Axe on a regular GH w/ a PP, this will give them the punch and an extra threat to your enemy.

 

Also the rune priest although looks cool and the ideas are their, also felt wasted in my army. Living lighting really didn't do much, again my dice were against me the entire fight, so at best I got maybe 3 shots with it, and I think just 1 kill. Also since he was in runic armor and not in tda he had no invunerable save against Khârn. Also neither of my leaders packed any real punch. My list was more of a using what I had, and using a cheaper hq more units mentality. One guy who was watching the game said I really needed to get a hammer unit, as I had plenty of anvil units, but lacked anything with real punch. He suggested thunderwolves as they are fast and hit hard.

 

I feel your problem is that you only thought about the SW powers, we also have access to the BRB powers; Biomancy, Telekinesis and Divination <- these give us quite a few different albeit random (apart from the Primaris powers) options to use...

 

Also is arjac worth the points taking him as an upgrade. I have read that thunderhammers aren't as effective as they once were, and power fists do the same thing for less, so wasn't sure if having arjac would be worth taking, or would I be better off taking more mobile firepower instead of spending the points on that wolf guard upgrade. As for mobile firepower, I am thinking either vindis of my own, or some land speeders to zip around and harass the enemy, at least with speeders I can get on side flanks and behind tanks for better dmg.

 

It's not so much that Thunderhammers are now pointless, it's just that PFs are cheaper for most options, Arjac is still worth taking as he can (if used as a Pack Leader) Precision Shot anyone with his TH - otherwise not really, as per mobile firepower Vindis are good and not overly pricey (though a Siege Shield is pretty much a must) and Land Speeders are decent but they can drop so easily, a plasma can take them down BUT used correctly they can deny whole swathes of the board.

 

All my notes and suggestions are in RED - hope they help brother...

[Rizara]

Thanks for the fast responses as well as the moral support and encouragement. Yes, I had a bad game, and the thought did occur to me that maybe my DIY White Stags chapter might be better suited under another list, but frankly, fluff wise, I can really only see my druid based chapter being only fielded as grey knights which would simply allow me to have more psychic druids in the list, or as spacewolves. In 5th I had my best games when I played spacewolves. At the end I was playing a blood angels army, but I lost moral for playing them simply cause no one in the store i frequented would play my army on the ground that it was a blood angels. I typically try to avoid special characters, but sometimes they are handy if not overused and abused.

 

I might still look into finding a way to add ragnar to my list as a hitty character and keep my long fangs. I had already planned on making use of my extra heavy weapons and thought about putting together a pack with 2 lascannons and 2-3 plasma cannons to make use of the extra bits I have. As for the game I played, it was 2000 points. I fielded all that I had, but I only had 4 grey hunter squads at the moment and I really didn't want to field the Land raider. Another list I had ready fielding 1500 poitns of wolves with 500 points of blood angels allies which migh thave faired better but only if my reserver roll would have gone off early as the blood angel contingent was a stormraven with a reclusiarch and 9 death company in it. I opted to skip that list my first time in 6th mainly so as to not try to play two armies and figure out the new flyer rules.

 

As for the terrain, well it was better set up for a fight that would have been anything but the diagnol deployment. With the deployment and after chaos won setup, i was pretty limited on any real cover as all the buildings were in the area that niether army could deploy in. My long fangs were in some woods at the start, but as my dice were apparently against me from the start, I failed every single coversave from that ordance barrage but 1, and I had to remove 5 marines, and because of the new rules, I had to remove what was under the template and closest to the target so their went all my missles and I was left with the leader, rune priest and wolf guard with cyclone. The leader did come in hand as I was still able to fire my rune priest and wg at two different targets, they just didn't do much dmg either way. I did manage to get rid of both the vindies. well I blew up one with spectacular success, the other one I ended up imbolizing it after it took out my grey hunters that had drop poded in at the side of a hill and deployed slightly behind the pod to avoid being harassed to death by the dread and a unit of chaos marines that lost a rhino. After turn 2, I didn't have much use for going for the vindi since it couldn't shoot any thing else based on its position and the fact that it couldn't move or turn around anymore.

 

So thanks for the suggestions. Maybe I will look into keeping the long fang pack, and getting a second one, and maybe work on snagging another razorback or two for the long fangs just to have extra mobile firepower.

[the jeske]

I had to remove what was under the template and closest to the target so their went all my missles and I was left with the leader, rune priest and wolf guard with cyclone.

chaos vindicators arent barrage .

 

should not be using dreadnoughts they are bad. . I dont doubt that a single LF unit is always dieing , you should be using 2-3 .

 

am also having problems with imagining how can a vindi template hit 5 models from a LF squad , specialy when at least one of those models is a big base termi model .

[Brom MKIV]

Hmm ya sounds like terrain possibly forced bad deployment of the LFs. They should usually be well out of range of those vindis, if they arent then just be prepared to move them immediately, even run if necessary. Its not a choice anyone wants to make but losing a turn of firing is worth keeping the pack alive to find better firing lanes/cover.

 

Jeske- Ive actually been enjoying a single 105 pt asscan dread lately. Its not overly competitive but its no legion of the damned either..

[Russ Brother 92]

I've found that podding Dreads is the best way to use them outside Rifleman dreads...

 

OT I'm not sure if your opponent explained the details of his codex (I've found that it's key when re-learning how to play - I played a 1300pts army vs IG and spent 20mins just getting to grips with the rules and how the specifics of each lists) I for one always feel that helping your opponent is the best rule of thumb - after all if you/your opponent cheat then it's only detracting from the whole experience and joy...

 

Again my slight rambling - either way Vindicators (of any form barring an Apoc. Formation) are NOT Barrage weapons, thus you as the owner choose the casualties - it's only regular shooting where you simply choose those nearest.