Caestus Assault Ram loganwing

[skeletoro]

So I've been planning a 1850 point loganwing army that uses landraiders to unload mass combi plasma fire on turn 2. I think it's looking pretty playable, but I got thinking. Would such a thing be viable with 3 caestus assault rams (or maybe 2 CARs and 1 Eagle) instead? I'm not savvy on the relevant rules so thought I'd double check if my understanding on how this might work is correct.

 

1) All transports would start in reserves. I'd the roll for each one separately starting on turn 2. 3+ on turn 2, 2+ t3, then auto on t4. Thus, I'd have quite good odds of seeing 2 or 3 show up on turn 2, and it's quite likely that any no shows would show up on turn 3.

 

2) I think the best option for the rams would be to try and deep strike about 21" away (so that scatter is unlikely to put the caestus too close to zoom the minimum 18") in order to zoom into the exposed side/rear armour of an enemy vehicle. I'd have to try and do this in a way that my rear armour is not too exposed.

 

3) At exactly 18", the ram strength would be 10, roll 2 dice take the highest, and +1 to damage table. So the caestus will score a penetrating hit, and destroys on a 5+. In return, against AV10, it would have a hard time penetrating the caestus' front armour (impossible at 18", glancing on 6s at 21", etc). And there'd be a 5+ invulnerable save.

 

4) If the target survived, the caestus should be able to finish it off with its considerable weaponry - if not, it can kill the occupants or something else.

 

5) During the target's next turn, the caestus is fairly well protected against anything that isn't skyfire, and cannot be assaulted. But if positioning is poor due to the ramming angle, it still might be a bit too vulnerable to feel comfortable, given that it still has passengers embarked. I'm sort of thinking that because the costs of having the passengers die is too high, perhaps the caestus should only ram turn 1 if it can do so without exposing its rear armour. Otherwise, perhaps it would be more sensible to deploy in hover mode, and have passengers disembark and shoot (which, unfortunately, wouldn't allow them to charge that turn, but hey).

 

6) If the caestus rammed last turn, it should have passengers disembark, shoot and charge, and then it should be free to hover away and shoot something.

 

Is this roughly how it might be expected to play out? I feel that if the caestus can ram something upon deployment without exposing its rear armour, then it totally should, because it's a pretty tough transport from the front.

 

Do you think a list made up of, say, 2 CARs and 1 Eagle could be effective at the 2000 point level? I'd be aiming to have 3 pretty kitted out wolf guard units plus logan. Clearly, a serious potential weakness would be having a transport blown up with 250+ points worth of passengers inside.

[skeletoro]

I guess one thing I'm also wondering is what methods there are for making those reserves rolls more reliable. Either +1 to the roll or a free reroll. I know there's a strategic warlord trait that gets you that, and the land raider proteus, but the former is very luck dependent, while the latter is 225 points (with no assault ramp). Anything more viable?

[dswanick]

Do you think a list made up of, say, 2 CARs and 1 Eagle could be effective at the 2000 point level? I'd be aiming to have 3 pretty kitted out wolf guard units plus logan. Clearly, a serious potential weakness would be having a transport blown up with 250+ points worth of passengers inside.

What do you plan to have on the table at the end of game turn 1 to prevent an 'auto-lose'?

[skeletoro]

Oh.. right.. that's a rule? Glad I asked then!

 

I WAS thinking about the viability of putting a unit in a LR Proteus, as they grant a reroll on reserves. But they don't have assault ramps, which is pretty damn sucky if you ask me.

[dswanick]

Oh.. right.. that's a rule? Glad I asked then!

 

I WAS thinking about the viability of putting a unit in a LR Proteus, as they grant a reroll on reserves. But they don't have assault ramps, which is pretty damn sucky if you ask me.

That, plus - Logan, 2 CAR, 1 Storm Eagle, and 3 squads of 10 bare-bones WGTDA os 2,040pts. Meaning you're trading Wounds for upgrades, and have no room for more units(including the aforementioned LR Proteus or turn 1 unit).

[skeletoro]

Yep, I think a 10 man TDA unit is a bit overkill, so probably wouldn't go that far anyway. But you're right. The proteus would have to be a replacement for one of the fliers, unless playing at a much higher point level.

 

One thing I also only just noticed is that embarked units only count as the same unit as their transport for the purposes of reserves if the transport is dedicated. So I'd need at least 2 deployed units on turn 1 anyway (a proteus and passengers would be sufficient).

 

So it's roughly 2000 points, but you'd probably end up with about 20 models (not 30).

 

I am feeling a bit leery about including a proteus in a 2,000 point army. The reserves buff is nice, but they're otherwise somewhat lacklustre, with their meagre capacity/lack of assault ramp. I think I'd probably make the squad inside somewhat cheap and scoring - a simple dev team with CML and mixed armour (maybe some combi plas). At least this would free up some points to kit out the 2 fliers.

 

Maybe a more well balanced list would be doing the 3 LR list, but dropping a raider and swapping in a single flier. With only one flier, you can guarantee 2 land raiders acting in tandem and have a pretty decent chance (2/3) of having that single flier arriving on turn 2 when (and where) it's most needed. And with only 1 flier, I wouldn't be quite so nervous about that reserve roll.

 

You might almost be able to squeeze in 2 land raiders (including a proteus with cheap scoring unit) and 3 fliers at the 2500 points level, but it would be a squeeze, and how often would you really get to play with such a list?