Long Range squad

[Gentlemanloser]

I'm currently toying with a backfield Squad of Crusaders, and am trying to decide how to give them a long range bite.

 

I could either include two Jokers (for 70 points), or a techmarine with conversion beamer (for 110).

 

Is the Techmarine the better choice, primarily giving the squad ATSKNF? Is he worth the extra 40 points? The Crusaders themsevels won't really get any use from the Jokers customisation.

 

Which way would you go? What Long range units (bar TL Autocannon Dreads) do you use?

[Reclusiarch Darius]

a backfield Squad of Crusaders

 

I've found your problem. You are using melee models in the backfield.

 

I could either include two Jokers (for 70 points), or a techmarine with conversion beamer (for 110).

 

Neither work, in my experience. Monkeys are good when you spam them (just search for my troll Dr Zaius list), but when you seed them throughout your warbands, they end up eating PsyDread points but being far less effective (BS3 and no re-rolls vs BS4 and re-rolls and more shots). The conversion beamer is nice Turn 1 but then the enemy advance and you stop being relevant (AP4, yay).

 

As an alternative, bulk up that Crusader unit with some Death-Cult, get them a Raven, then go harass enemy lines. Its not overly expensive for what it does, and you still have the Raven for gunship duties. I like eating Long Fangs and Lootaz with them, but you can also go after Troops too (Tac Marines hate the melee warband, and Grey Hunters get badly mauled by you as well).

[Gentlemanloser]

Nah, I wanna stick 6 Interceptors in a SR, to use Shadowied skies. :wacko:

 

Crusaders are (relatively) cheap, don't need cover due to Storm Shields, and I wouldn't use them in CC over GK anyway. Sure, I could just use Warrior Accolytes, but they fold to stiff winds and harsh glances. :blink:

[WhoaDirty]

Go all crazy-like and go with the Techmarine and Orbital Bombardment? :wacko:

[Brother Bobert]

I've been tossing out 2 henchmen squads of

3 heavy bolter servitors

2 jokero

6 warrior acolyte with storm bolter

 

attached to inquisitors, for no mind lock and a psychic twinlink.

 

Gives you the chance of lascannon and heavy bolter for long range. The possibility of rending and +12 range on the storm bolters and heavy bolters can really pack a punch. Over all the Dakkanought is one of the best long range coverage through I've been thinking of swapping one of the auto cannons out for an assault cannon.

[number6]

I'm still trying to figure out why you care that warriors "die to a stiff wind". :D

 

Crusaders are expensive. Warriors are cheap. Crusaders not used as part of a beatsticking squad are wastes of points.

 

If you really want your long range unit to stay on the table, than I'm not sure what can help you. If it's in your backfield, and you fail a morale check, you are likely to run off the table in one go anyway. My suggestion, therefore, is to keep it cheap and chipper, taking the firepower you actually want and nothing more.

 

Personally, I think the techmarine with conversion beamer is an excellent backfield choice. Giving him an orbital strike relay is equally awesome. Downside is the techmarine is pretty pricey for a single gun, no matter how good it is. You really need to build an entire unit around the techmarine to get the best use of points thus spent.

 

What kind of firepower do you really want? If it's really just dakka you're looking for, 3 HB servitors. And don't even bother with attaching an Inquisitor or other bodies. You'll get three-ish turns of firepower that nobody will even try to remove for the low low cost of 30 pts. It's a true bargain. Give them plasma cannons and a bare-bones inquisitor, you're spending pennies yet getting something quite frightening. But is it worth shooting at if you're the opponent? So small, so cheap, so ... helpless?

 

The more points you invest into protecting something, the more enticing a target you make. If you attach crusaders to your WHATEVER backfield unit -- including either of my example servitor units -- then you make it worth the enemy's while to blow it up. Don't bother, and the enemy will be forced to prioritize. You'll have more points to put in your forward elements, making them more of a priority, leaving your backfield looking too wussy to mess with, but a constant annoyance nonetheless.

 

The GK player who has won my GT tournament two years running has run Coteaz with 3 plasma cannon servitors and ~4 bare-bones warriors as wound markers. Just enough ablative wounds to force an enemy to actually shoot at it, but so inexpensive that it hardly seems worth the effort. Watching his 10 games over two years, never once did an opponent make the effort to deal with Coteaz, even though he proved a useful element in controlling how the enemy deployed -- almost never deep-striking, obviously -- and throwing plasma cannon fire downrange at will. He was smart not to put anything else attached to the unit; keeping it cheap and "too easy to kill" proved to be the reason it survived so well. And also freed up quite a few points for other things that would otherwise have been tied up in models that added nothing to his offense.

[Gentlemanloser]

For some reason i was thinking crusaders were 10 points each, not 15.

 

/meh

 

the idea of converting some new dw Knights into Halberd (Power Axe) wielding Crusaders has been relegated to the bin.

 

at 15 points a pop, i'd be better off with strikes for warp quake.

 

Oh well, back to the Dreads I guess.

 

(I also usually run Bolter warriors with HB Razors for long Range pew pew)

[number6]

For some reason i was thinking crusaders were 10 points each, not 15.

I still fail to see how the calculus works in your favor even under these circumstances. :cuss 2.5 warriors per 1 crusader ... yeah. Not a good tradeoff. You're deploying in cover, after all. :huh:

[Reclusiarch Darius]

Pretty much what number6 said. The triple plasma cannon+handful of ablative Acolytes is how I run my Coteaz warband, and its golden every match. It often doesn't even die, the enemy is too busy panicking at the TDA blob I'm throwing into the mid-field. Plasma cannons are great this edition, and especially relevant as Terminators just got more popular with Marines (due to the stupid AP melee rules). I regularly murder whole squads per shooting phase, its great re-rolling blasts.

[Inquisitor Fox]

ironically triple plasma cannon, three plasma guns, and then two or three jokaero with an Inquisitor with hellrifle would have an even greater impact, but that really goes up the enemies radar quickly :) It's a balance between threat generation, points investment, and overall utility. Small enough to not be noticed, big enough to do damage. A lot of it goes down to experience and personal playstyle too.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

ironically triple plasma cannon, three plasma guns, and then two or three jokaero with an Inquisitor with hellrifle would have an even greater impact, but that really goes up the enemies radar quickly It's a balance between threat generation, points investment, and overall utility. Small enough to not be noticed, big enough to do damage. A lot of it goes down to experience and personal playstyle too.

 

I've tried adding plasma guns to mine, it doesn't work out. You have to move to use the rifles, but the cannons wanna stay still at 36". Better to put the plasma Acolytes in a storm bolter squad elsewhere, moving to the mid-field to help out the Knight squads.

As I mentioned earlier, Jokaero are proving to be really bad in my lists. They cost so much, but their BS3 means you have to get them re-rolls. And even then, its only one lascannon per monkey. I've since dropped them (4x monkeys ~= PsyDread), the S8 spam works out better (I have melta elsewhere+DK for heavy AV problem solving). I'm still building my Dr Zaius list, so until then the monkeys are on the bench.

Hellrifle is eh, I usually need the points for other things, like giving the Inquisitor 'Prescience'.

[Inquisitor Fox]

The reason to add them would be the 24" range as opposed to the rapid fire range. The chance of a range boost from the Jokaero too is enough of a lark to maybe have it pan out. Then again, it's more of a theory exercise as most of us don't play anything like these mental concoctions we come up with anyway B)

[Reclusiarch Darius]

The reason to add them would be the 24" range as opposed to the rapid fire range. The chance of a range boost from the Jokaero too is enough of a lark to maybe have it pan out. Then again, it's more of a theory exercise as most of us don't play anything like these mental concoctions we come up with anyway

 

Why not though? Not saying I don't enjoy armchair debates either (that's probably half of my posts at least), but why not try them at least? I have, its not that hard to proxy (I had Stormtrooper hangovers from the old codex, so I just re-used them).

 

Yeah, look, I was in love with the monkeys for a while (they're so hilarious), but in practise they eat all my PsyDread points and fail a lot. I've switched back to double PsyDread and basic triple plasma cannon+ablative squads, and no dramas with heavy armour (DK eats the 1-2 Raiders I fight usually). Your dice might be better than mine though, so by all means, include them (they're not a bad unit by any means).