Jarl Deathwolf Posted December 27, 2012 Share Posted December 27, 2012 In my last game, I fought against the Necrons in an 1850 point game. I fielded me (Jarl Deathwolf) with: - Thunderwolf Mount - Wolf Claw - Power Fist - Belt of Russ - Runic Armor - Wolftooth Necklace I figured that was a pretty strong build and, though the Xenos (who was also a Space Wolf) disagreed (who for some reason thought TH was best), I stick to it. His bodyguards, however... 3 Thunderwolf Cavalry Cavalry 1: Storm Shield, Bolt Pistol Cavalry 2: Power Fist, Bolt Pistol Cavalry 3: CCW, Bolt Pistol While the TWC Power fist was vital in destroying his monolith, the pack just withered under two volleys of firepower from a normal squad of Necrons. Then I died at the hands of the Necron Destroyer Lord (or something like that), but I was wondering: That bodyguard pack cost 205 points. Would it be better to replace them with 15 fenrisian wolves? Put the Jarl in front, then LoS Ap2 shots until I'm in cc? Sure, they can't help much in cc and they reduce my toughness, but it is nearly half the price for 9 more wounds. Keep in mind, the Necron example was only the most recent example. Something similar happens most of the time I field this pack. Thoughts brothers? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/268602-thunder-lord-retinue/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Drozd Posted December 27, 2012 Share Posted December 27, 2012 Could I suggest going for Thunder Hammer, Storm Shield and Saga of the Bear on your lord? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/268602-thunder-lord-retinue/#findComment-3271520 Share on other sites More sharing options...
dswanick Posted December 27, 2012 Share Posted December 27, 2012 Try this for some hilarity: 418pts 1 Wolf Lord in Power Armour, Runic Armour, Thunderwolf Mount, Power Fist, Wolf Claw, Melta Bombs, Belt of Russ, Wolf Tail Talisman, Wolftooth Necklace, Saga of the Wolfkin, 2 Fenrisian Wolf 15 Fenrisian Wolf Pack, Cyberwolf Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/268602-thunder-lord-retinue/#findComment-3271534 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wulfebane Posted December 27, 2012 Share Posted December 27, 2012 I agree with the OP. I absolutely hate thunderhammers or fists on a Wolf Lord. We're extremely limited in I5 units (only 2 non-unique characters) and giving them weapon options that completely negate the benefit of I5, especially for a melee-oriented unit that cannot serve any other role, seems blasphemous and ill-conceived to me. I like the wolfclaw/fist combo you've done. It lets him keep his I5 if desired, or punch a hole through a tank, all while retaining the +1 attack from 2 ccw. To the OP's question, I think you'll probably have to train your TWC unit to have a bit of patience, remaining hidden behind cover and let the enemy advance a bit before charging. This should keep your TWC from getting picked off as easily. Yeah, you might lose a turn, but if you can keep them in melee the rest of the game, they should hold up for several more turns than currently before dying. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/268602-thunder-lord-retinue/#findComment-3271557 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarl Deathwolf Posted December 27, 2012 Author Share Posted December 27, 2012 I agree with the OP. I absolutely hate thunderhammers or fists on a Wolf Lord. We're extremely limited in I5 units (only 2 non-unique characters) and giving them weapon options that completely negate the benefit of I5, especially for a melee-oriented unit that cannot serve any other role, seems blasphemous and ill-conceived to me. I like the wolfclaw/fist combo you've done. It lets him keep his I5 if desired, or punch a hole through a tank, all while retaining the +1 attack from 2 ccw. To the OP's question, I think you'll probably have to train your TWC unit to have a bit of patience, remaining hidden behind cover and let the enemy advance a bit before charging. This should keep your TWC from getting picked off as easily. Yeah, you might lose a turn, but if you can keep them in melee the rest of the game, they should hold up for several more turns than currently before dying. This is exactly my thoughts. Whenever people try to convince me to have *just* an unwieldy weapon I feel like I'm wasting a huge advantage. With this tough unit, I forget that a few well-placed shots can bring them down. I will try to sneak around a bit with them. At least then the enemy will have the psychological terror of these beasts gnawing at them for a while longer. Could I suggest going for Thunder Hammer, Storm Shield and Saga of the Bear on your lord? Thunderhammers are no longer worth the extra few points, imho. Powerfists are cheaper and effectively the same. However, I did run for ages a ThunderLord with a storm shield and saga of the bear. I liked the SS, but I never really faced any S10, so I replaced it with Saga of the Warrior Born, which overcame the slight weakness of not being able to tear though squads fast enough. Basically, I'd assault on my turn, kill a bunch o' dudes, then kill them all on the enemy's turn with all the extra attacks I'd gotten. That was with Wolf Claws in 5th ed, but now they are Ap3 and thus less effective than I'd like. Still, SS + SotB with T5 and 3 wounds is downright TERRIFYING to most the opponents I've faced. Wolf Lord in Power Armour, Runic Armour, Thunderwolf Mount, Power Fist, Wolf Claw, Melta Bombs, Belt of Russ, Wolf Tail Talisman, Wolftooth Necklace, Saga of the Wolfkin, 2 Fenrisian Wolf15 Fenrisian Wolf Pack, Cyberwolf Wouldn't the meltabomb be only slightly more effective than the S10 Ap2 PF? Regardless, I'm going to try this build out in my next game. 17 near-free ablative wounds, ftw! If I could get Foreboding on that pack for the first round... oooo... Anyone else have some thoughts? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/268602-thunder-lord-retinue/#findComment-3271580 Share on other sites More sharing options...
dswanick Posted December 27, 2012 Share Posted December 27, 2012 Wouldn't the meltabomb be only slightly more effective than the S10 Ap2 PF? Only until you find yourself wanting to punch a hole in a Land Raider(not that you ever should, but it's Murphy's Law that you never have the desire to do something until you don't have the capability) and need a 5+ on 1d6 vs 2d6. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/268602-thunder-lord-retinue/#findComment-3271607 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Einarr Posted December 29, 2012 Share Posted December 29, 2012 I wouldn't waste an I5 character by using thunder hammers or power fists, take a frost blade or wolf claw instead. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/268602-thunder-lord-retinue/#findComment-3273783 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarl Deathwolf Posted December 30, 2012 Author Share Posted December 30, 2012 I wouldn't waste an I5 character by using thunder hammers or power fists, take a frost blade or wolf claw instead. I field both a PF and a WC. That way, I threaten everything and have +1 A for two specialist weapons. Usually, I only use the PF on vehicles. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/268602-thunder-lord-retinue/#findComment-3273993 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hear da Lamentation Posted December 30, 2012 Share Posted December 30, 2012 I normally use a ThunderLord with ra,ss,saga of bear and thunderhammer. He has a similar pack of TWC with him tot he OP (one storm shield, one powerfist, one normal). 2 things I have found recently. Without the thunderhammer or powerfist, your Lord can become a very expensive point sink. He gets into combat with a high toughness foe (which can be easy enough to get now with psych abilities giving you pluses to toughness) - then you are likely to get killed. I've had my Lord against a number of Tyranid monsters and without the Str10 - he just couldn't hack it in the fight. Now you can pick out characters with challenges - this makes it even more of a risk. For me, with the advent of challenges, you HAVE to have the Str10 to be able to meet any eventuality. OK he misses out with Initiative 5 - but with the 2+, 3++ saga of bear, he is very survivable. However ... something I found in my last game (against blood angel, grey knight allied list) was that with a sergeant and 1 or possibly 2 cheap HQs in a enemy unit, the Lord is effectively negated for 2 to 3 turns (so about a third to half the game). I am really left considering this ..... with challenges now ..... are high cost powerful HQs really worth it? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/268602-thunder-lord-retinue/#findComment-3274254 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brom MKIV Posted December 30, 2012 Share Posted December 30, 2012 I am really left considering this ..... with challenges now ..... are high cost powerful HQs really worth it? Id say about as much as before challenges existed, its just more complicated now. If the lord is mobile on TWM or in a transport then he should be able to avoid that one deathstar unit with multiple characters..or actively hunt it situation dependent. Either way the biggest issue is if he has a champ nearby to accept a potential challenge, which is the main problem with a TWC retinue IMO as opposed to fen wolves or a foot lord. If he does have a friendly character nearby then hes golden, if not hes gonna end up tied up for a round which isnt always a bad thing for a combat character. On the flip side many of the units he wants to hunt down, such as expensive elite units, dont have characters so the lord can happily set about slaughtering the unit. Either way though challenge rules are largely in favor of the guy with the biggest stick which usually tends to be the wolf lord. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/268602-thunder-lord-retinue/#findComment-3274489 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarl Deathwolf Posted December 31, 2012 Author Share Posted December 31, 2012 Getting lock in combat for a few rounds isn't so bad. It means that you are slowly killing a unit that a) Can't escape you (Initiative 5 catches most things) and :P can't hurt you easily (especially with you slaughtering their characters). If they put a few cheap HQs in the squad and challenge you, lucky day, you probably just killed their warlord. And remember, every turn you are in cc is a round you aren't being shot at. If you are really worried about it, you can give the Jarl a Saga of the Warrior Born, so you get more and more attacks, culminating in the slaughter of the squad. Every death fuels your rage. So does a Cyber wolf count as a character? If so, investing in a huge fen wolf pack lead by a cyberwolf... there could be something there. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/268602-thunder-lord-retinue/#findComment-3274807 Share on other sites More sharing options...
dswanick Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 So does a Cyber wolf count as a character? If so, investing in a huge fen wolf pack lead by a cyberwolf... there could be something there. No, a Cyberwolf is Type: Beast. BRB, Pg.135. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/268602-thunder-lord-retinue/#findComment-3274819 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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