Merellin Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 I asked about him on another forum ages ago but never got a reply so I desided to ask here. Is Bjorn any good? I like dreadnoughts but havent used them much, I got 2 Forgeworld Dreadnoughts with autocannon arms (Got the army second hand and they where included in it) but I wonder, Is it worth buying Bjorn? (Or rather, A Venerable dreadnought to use as Bjorn cus they look better.. XD) What do you all think about him? He's awesome in fluff, but is he worth his points? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/268664-bjorn-the-fell-handed-is-he-good/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astoran Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 I cant say anything about competition but slap a Plasma Cannon on that bad boy and let the rule of cool guide you. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/268664-bjorn-the-fell-handed-is-he-good/#findComment-3272338 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarl Deathwolf Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 Yes, a Plasma Cannon with his BS of 5 makes it extremely accurate for those pesky targets like Terminator Squads who just teleported in. He adds some nice unseen tactical influence though, as you can have him re-roll any damage rolls to ensure he gets blown up near the end of the game to get a free objective. ;) Re roll deployment... Saga of Majesty... Yeah, pretty good though I seldom find reason to field him (I don't use the named character much anyway). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/268664-bjorn-the-fell-handed-is-he-good/#findComment-3272378 Share on other sites More sharing options...
hendrik Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 as far as fluff goes he's the most bad ass space wolf that ever existed,bar leman russ himself! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/268664-bjorn-the-fell-handed-is-he-good/#findComment-3272384 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WG Vrox Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 I have not used him myself, but I know there are lords who swear by him, yes the PC is the way to go, but be careful what you go up against in Close Combat as his INT is 3. Regardless he is still a beast in CC. You almost want to have a dedicated unit that follows him around to ensure you can claim him if he falls in combat. I have kicked around the idea of having an Iron Priest with a few servitors following him around, not only do you increase his chances of surviving, but you have a unit that can claim him if he falls. Yes, it would be expensive but very fluffy. Question, if an IP repairs let's say a destroyed weapon do you also regain a hull point? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/268664-bjorn-the-fell-handed-is-he-good/#findComment-3272404 Share on other sites More sharing options...
skeletoro Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 He's a character now. This means that he can engage independent characters in duels, and then tear them apart with initiative 3 strength 10 attacks. And then even if they survive, they'll need melta bombs or a chainfist to have a shot at beating his AV13. He can also make called shots/strikes on 6s, meaning that he's engaging a squad with a hidden melta or fist, he has a decent chance of eliminating it before it has a chance to hurt him. That's kinda scary. On the other hand he's 270 points. Ouch! This means you could get a space wolves contemptor cheaper. You be the judge as to what's better. Space wolves contemptors have better weapons options (Kheres Assault Cannon, cyclone) and fleet. But Bjorn brings a bunch of other stuff to the table. It's just a shame he can't join units. If he could, he'd probably be the best character in the game. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/268664-bjorn-the-fell-handed-is-he-good/#findComment-3272412 Share on other sites More sharing options...
skeletoro Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 I have not used him myself, but I know there are lords who swear by him, yes the PC is the way to go, but be careful what you go up against in Close Combat as his INT is 3. Regardless he is still a beast in CC. Int 3 is awesome for str 10 ap 2! It's better than any other space wolf character. Power fists only "wound" him on a 5+ in return. Not too shabby if you ask me! Question, if an IP repairs let's say a destroyed weapon do you also regain a hull point?I don't think so. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/268664-bjorn-the-fell-handed-is-he-good/#findComment-3272418 Share on other sites More sharing options...
kijamon Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 Really enjoyed using Bjorn in a recent event. In the forge world dreadnought drop pod he can be quite tasty (though my contemptor had more success when assaulting out of one). He puts the fear in people and for some reason Russ smiled upon me as I constantly had lascannons bouncing off him. I'll try him again a few times because I rolled outflanking for him in one game which was a novelty in itself. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/268664-bjorn-the-fell-handed-is-he-good/#findComment-3272445 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merellin Posted December 28, 2012 Author Share Posted December 28, 2012 Bjorn and two Rifleman Dreads.. That sounds like fun..Expensive in points but fun.. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/268664-bjorn-the-fell-handed-is-he-good/#findComment-3272485 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 You can choose to add a HP back on instead of a Weapon Destroyed etc IIRC. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/268664-bjorn-the-fell-handed-is-he-good/#findComment-3272546 Share on other sites More sharing options...
dswanick Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 Question, if an IP repairs let's say a destroyed weapon do you also regain a hull point? "Page 38 – Iron Priests, Battlesmith. Replace the entry with the following: “Battlesmith: In each of your Shooting phases, instead of firing his weapons, an Iron Priest may choose to repair a single friendly vehicle that he is in base contact with or embarked upon. To repair a vehicle, roll a D6 and add the following modifier where applicable: • Each Thrall-servitor with a servo-arm in his unit +1 If the result is 5 or more, you may restore a Hull Point lost earlier in the battle, or repair a Weapon Destroyed or Immobilised result suffered earlier in the battle; this is effective immediately.”", C:SW FAQv1.1 Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/268664-bjorn-the-fell-handed-is-he-good/#findComment-3272558 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rift Blade Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 THere are a lot of different things to consider with Bjorn, the first & foremost being what will his role be. Being a Dreadnaught & character opens up pricision shots & hits for him which can be scary for your opponent, his BS is 5, Saga of Majesty, gives you a chance to reroll to see who goes first & don't forget his Ward of the Primarch however if he is destroyed he becomes an objective & he is I 3. Personally, I find him useful in larger games. At 270 pts. he is major pts sink & really IMO does not come into his own unless supporting & being supported by the units around him. As one of the others mentioned, if you have the choice between him & Contemptor, I would take the Contemptor every time. Cannot say enough about them & they are cheaper pts wise with more options. If you want him to bolster your army, yes, take him. If you want to use him as a lure for your opponent, yes, take him. If you want him to be a kickass assault unit I would not unless you are really going to support him. As an army commander I would not 'cause there a lots of cheaper ways to do it. If you want to take him for Fluff, ABSOLUTELY. He has disappointed me more then he has impressed me game wise but for Fluff he is simply the biggest BAD ASS out there until Russ himself gets back from where ever. Then we get the 2 of them together!!!!LOL!!! My 2 cents. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/268664-bjorn-the-fell-handed-is-he-good/#findComment-3272721 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emptyedens Posted December 29, 2012 Share Posted December 29, 2012 One time I ran Bjorn and he took out 3 dreadknights in single combat. The only reason that Bjorn is in a dreadnought is that he fought Chuck Norris and won but the backlash of that much awesome mortally wounded him..... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/268664-bjorn-the-fell-handed-is-he-good/#findComment-3273041 Share on other sites More sharing options...
greysquigg Posted December 29, 2012 Share Posted December 29, 2012 I would take him purely for fluffy reasons. Never mind he's a walking death machines. GS Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/268664-bjorn-the-fell-handed-is-he-good/#findComment-3273436 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brom MKIV Posted December 29, 2012 Share Posted December 29, 2012 One time I ran Bjorn and he took out 3 dreadknights in single combat. The only reason that Bjorn is in a dreadnought is that he fought Chuck Norris and won but the backlash of that much awesome mortally wounded him..... I had to sig this it was funny as hell! But how did bjorn manage to kill 3 dread knights? Im assuming no greatswords? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/268664-bjorn-the-fell-handed-is-he-good/#findComment-3273745 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loki-LaughingDeath Posted December 29, 2012 Share Posted December 29, 2012 Bjorn is the second most expensive character and a pretty decent one. He does have one downfall in that he cannot join a unit, but with a Ballistic skill of six he does get a reroll for sixes on misses. In Close combat he is THEE beast! He is good at taking down infantry units because of his front armor of 13. He can also pick off leaders with those Pesky Power Fist/Claws and all that fun stuff on top of his 5+ invulnerable save. He also hits on 3s period and with Saga of Majesty on the rare occasions something decides they don't want to pass a Ld test he allows a reroll. Just let that one sink in for a moment. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/268664-bjorn-the-fell-handed-is-he-good/#findComment-3273790 Share on other sites More sharing options...
hendrik Posted December 30, 2012 Share Posted December 30, 2012 as far as his price tag goes. is he really that expensive for what you get? i don't know the stats but how survivable is he in CC in comparison to a decket out wolf lord with thunderwolf?30-isch points? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/268664-bjorn-the-fell-handed-is-he-good/#findComment-3273855 Share on other sites More sharing options...
skeletoro Posted December 30, 2012 Share Posted December 30, 2012 I would hazard a guess that he's amongst our best duelists. Against any IC that lacks Eternal warrior, he's got a pretty good shot of insta-gibbing them before they can strike back. Arjac would have a pretty good shot though. The main issue is that he cannot hide inside a unit, I think. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/268664-bjorn-the-fell-handed-is-he-good/#findComment-3273868 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chronotonic Posted December 30, 2012 Share Posted December 30, 2012 No he cannot hide in a unit... But like stated above...run a grey hunter pack in a rhino with him so not only extra shots and attacks you have someone that can grab that fallen objective later in the game and actually hold onto it... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/268664-bjorn-the-fell-handed-is-he-good/#findComment-3273874 Share on other sites More sharing options...
skeletoro Posted December 30, 2012 Share Posted December 30, 2012 No he cannot hide in a unit... But like stated above...run a grey hunter pack in a rhino with him so not only extra shots and attacks you have someone that can grab that fallen objective later in the game and actually hold onto it... But that doesn't do anything to solve the problem. He's too easy for your opponent to target with their lascannons/melta, etc. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/268664-bjorn-the-fell-handed-is-he-good/#findComment-3273891 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted December 30, 2012 Share Posted December 30, 2012 Well, unless you have the official model for him- old dreads are about 10% smaller, it makes a difference. My main problem has been fast units on his rear armor. Like Deep Striking Stealth Suits. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/268664-bjorn-the-fell-handed-is-he-good/#findComment-3273967 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chronotonic Posted December 30, 2012 Share Posted December 30, 2012 5+ invuln venerable rules front armour 13... yeah he is completely useless.... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/268664-bjorn-the-fell-handed-is-he-good/#findComment-3273982 Share on other sites More sharing options...
hendrik Posted December 30, 2012 Share Posted December 30, 2012 well he's got a 5+ inv save, and it that's still not enough just put one of your rhinos right behind him, blocking all shots coming from the rear! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/268664-bjorn-the-fell-handed-is-he-good/#findComment-3274095 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brom MKIV Posted December 30, 2012 Share Posted December 30, 2012 Ive been considering Bjorn and I just dont see how he can ever be worth 270? At 200, maybe, since he occupies a HQ slot and can also be your warlord (right?). If he was an IC, which would be over powered, or at least av13 all round he looks better but still... 270? Maybe I just need to field him a couple times..idk. Obviously its not combat hes concerned with, he'll own once hes there, except against furiosos and MCs plus 5 pts of melta is his bane. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/268664-bjorn-the-fell-handed-is-he-good/#findComment-3274348 Share on other sites More sharing options...
hendrik Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 well as i mentioned a thunderlord (saga of the bear, TH+SS,runic armour) comes in at almost the same price. both are characters and monsters in CC, but lets compare both units shall we? thunderlord: 5 WS6 S10 attacks at I 1 bjorn: 4 WS6 S10 I3 attacks while the lord has a slightly higher amount of attacks bjorn strikes at I3, which is a HUGE deal if we take into account what models/units can actually damage them in close combat. At T5 the wolf lord can be damaged by anything up from S2. sure the chances of a guardmen killing your lord are rather low but they have a chance no less. but now lets see what can hurt bjorn? say we take the +D6 rolls a 6, this still means your opponent has to be atleast S7 is he even wants to have a chance against bjorn. Ok so from this comparison it's clear that only the strongest guys can hurt bjorn using their standard profile, now lets look into weapons. since the wolf lord has a 2+ armour save he'll be mostly worried about AP2 weapons such as powerfists, thunderhammers,rending attacks etc. now most of these things will hit at I1, just like him meaning that both opponents have an equal chance of killing/wounding eachother. Bjorn pretty much needs to be affraid of the same weapons+meltabombs, however these all hit at I1, while bjorn can strike at I3, allowing him to bring the pain to the opponent, and since he's a character, snipe out the model with the weapons that can hurt him at I1 either by a challenge, or the precision strike rule. In effect this means that bjorn is a lot more survivable then your wolf lord. conclussion; in the "dealing out pain and surviving combat" comparison bjorn wins it hands down. Now lets look at the other fields of comparison, the first being "getting there". The wolflord is a cavalry model and as such is a great deal faster then bjorn. however, unless supported by other fast elements this means you'll either make use of your speed and be in combat early on, but without much support, or you'll move at a slower pace, allowing the rest of your army to follow and support you. Bjorn, as a walker, can only move as fast as the rest of your army. this makes him not so likely to get a turn 2 assault but also means he'll remain in coherency with the rest of your force. In addition to this the TH+SS wolf lord is unable to do any damage as long as he's not into combat. Bjorn on the other hand can wreck havoc with his assault cannon, plasma cannon(less interesting because of overheat) or even twin linked lascannon. In this department both units clearly have their own advantage, and neither really is obviously better then the other. DRAW Now let's look at the "nanana, i've got drinking buddies" comparison. A thunderlord is only able to get joined by the expensive thunderwolf cavalry(another expensive unit), or cheap fenrisian wolves (lowering his toughness, so giving your opponent a higher chance of wounding through shooting weapons. Bjorn however can't join any unit and as such can't benefit from nice things such as "look out sir" or ablavative wounds. wolf lord wins. next comparison "you think you're though, THIS is though!" At T5 your wolf lord is a though guy, but just like in combat can be wounded from anything up to S2, meaning even lasguns are able to force saves upon him. Bjorn however "only" needs to be affraid of high strength weapons meaning less things are capable of hurting him. The wolf lord however is a slight bit more resilient through the fac that he's got ethernal warrior. Bjorn however, being a venerable dreadnought can choose to reroll the result on the damage table. I'm inclined to say that bjorn is actually the winner in this comparison, but hey, for the sake of it; DRAW. Up next: "friends with benefits" Unless you decide to swap the saga of the bear for a cheaper saga such as saga of majesty or saga of the wolfkin the wolf lord actually doesn't give any special benefits to non-joined support units, or the army in general. Now bjorn on the other hand is truely a friend with benefits. Not only does he have the saga of majesty, boosting his supporting units,but he also comes with a nifty power called "ancient tactician", allowing you to reroll to see who can go first. This alone is a HUGE asset in armies that rely on a first turn alpha strike, be it by droppod,longrange or even allied guardsman artillery bringing down the pain! In addition to this there's also the rule living relic, meaning that, should bjorn fall, now all of your space wolves are fearless and bjorn becomes an additional objective. Since bjorn moves at a lower pace however this means that most likely he's either somewhere in the middle of the board, or even still in your own deployment-zone, allowing him to be easely captured, or at the very least contested. This makes bjorn a HUGE asset if you build a lits to work around him. To me this means that, bjorn is atleast as good as a thunderlord, if not even better, as long as the armylist is build to support him. Typically a list using bjorn should IMO contain atleast the following elements: -alpha strike capacity, used to remove iminent danger to bjorn or your other vehicles -armour saturation, don't make bjorn the only armoured danger, put the fear into your opponent by a wall of armour! -support units for bjorn; eg atleast 1 grey hunter pack following in pursuit of our hero (maybe even with a razorback for cover/blocking line of sight) Somehow I don't think these elements are so different from other lists, except perhaps pure footslogging/cavalry lists. 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