Sororitas Rate-o-Matic

[Jacinda]

This should not be too hard. After all, there are only 15 different units (17 if you count dedicated transports) in the codex. How do you rate them? Copy the list and rearrange them to show your must haves and must nots.

 

The List:

=====================

Canoness

Sororitas Command Squad

Ecclesiarchy Priests

Ecclesiarchy Battle Conclaves

Sisters Repentia

Penitent Engines

Battle Sisters

Celestian Squads

Dominion Squads

Seraphim Squads

Retributor Squads

Exorcists

Arch-Confessor Kyrinov

Uriah Jacobus

Saint Celestine

=====================

 

 

My choices:

Saint Celestine

Uriah Jacobus

Exorcists

Ecclesiarchy Battle Conclaves

Dominion Squads

Seraphim Squads

Retributor Squads

Battle Sisters

Sisters Repentia

Arch-Confessor Kyrinov

Penitent Engines

Sororitas Command Squad

Ecclesiarchy Priests

Canoness

Celestian Squads

[*Furyou Miko]

Hmm. Despite the order here, I usually field a Canoness and SCS more often than Jackie and the Battle Conclave. I find they suit me better - although I will admit that, in general terms, the Conclave is the more powerful choice.

 

My choice of Retris over Seraphim probably stems from my habit of allying in suicide-squads of Elysians with demo charges, and I definitely prefer a full squad of Melta-minions over an Exorcist (although I rarely leave home without both).

 

Saint Celestine

Dominion Squads

Retributor Squads

Exorcists

Seraphim Squads

Battle Sisters

Uriah Jacobus

Ecclesiarchy Battle Conclaves

Sisters Repentia

Arch-Confessor Kyrinov

Penitent Engines

Canoness

Sororitas Command Squad

Ecclesiarchy Priests

Celestian Squads

[greatcrusade08]

since i use a themed counts as army my list might appear weird

 

Saint Celestine

Battle Sisters

Seraphim Squads

Retributor Squads

Dominion Squads

Uriah Jacobus

Ecclesiarchy Battle Conclaves

Celestian Squads

Penitent Engines

Canoness

Sororitas Command Squad

Ecclesiarchy Priests

Exorcists

Sisters Repentia

Arch-Confessor Kyrinov

 

in terms of what i think the average army needs to be 'good' i think the OPs list is pretty accurate

[SinnerBeta]

Considering how low Kyrinov gets scored I take it this is a "what you would take" rather "rate the units on their own merit" list ?

[*Furyou Miko]

No, this is what you would honestly rate the untis, as compared to the other units.

 

Kyrinov is really, really bad. He's basically a Dialogous (the 'useless one' in the Sororitas Command Squad) with a Power Maul. The only worthwhile thing he does is unlock a Battle Conclave, but Jacobus and generic Confessors also do that and better.

[SinnerBeta]

I disagree.

 

Kyrinov is quite good, not only having access to the Conclave but carrying around some nice gear that buffs other units around him for only 90 points. His only problem is that both other named characters are way better and being automatic picks, but that speaks more of them than him.

[*Furyou Miko]

What gear? He's got a concussive power sword and a useless banner.

[SinnerBeta]

Well that argument just blew my mind.

 

But seriously, I stand by what I said and disagree.

[*Furyou Miko]

Well, maybe you should lay your argument out properly then.

[Babel_Triumphant]

For just a few points over a normal confessor, you get some decent weaponry and a fearless bubble. It's not too bad, but in comparison with Celestine and Jacobus he's just not impressive. The fearless bubble would probably do more for a more skittish army like guard.

[Fibonacci]

For just a few points over a normal confessor, you get some decent weaponry and a fearless bubble. It's not too bad, but in comparison with Celestine and Jacobus he's just not impressive. The fearless bubble would probably do more for a more skittish army like guard.

Fearless and a faith test reroll are all he brings. Otherwise he has a bolt pistol and a power maul. It's not that he is bad, he is just sort of middle of the road for 90 points. The same points can get you one of the specialty squads with more damage potential and more total wounds. A repentia squad has fearless plus feel no pain plus 4 S6 AP1 armor bane weapons plus a Mistress with S10 attacks (sure it goes against leadership but it is S10 and will ID a daemon prince, for example) plus they have the ability to strike even when dead. They don't come with a bolt pistol, though.

[*Furyou Miko]

Mistress' weapons calculate Instant Death off leadership, and are only S8 (so they cause Instant Death against Leadership 4, and wound Ld10 on 6s).

[SinnerBeta]

Well, maybe you should lay your argument out properly then.

 

Well clearly I have a lot ahead of me until I reach the level of "concussive power sword and a useless banner" - THAT'S a well laid out and mature argument.

[greatcrusade08]

well personal digs aside chaps, no-one here has actually laid out a reasoned argument for why Kyrinov deserves board time.

 

the argument that "Jacobus is better doesnt make Kyrinov bad" is a little counter intuitive.

what do we consider 90 points worth of IC to be 'good' in the SOB dex.. first we need to figure out a measuring stick by which Kyrinov should be judged, i personally believe its jacobus, same cost but better all round at buffs.

at that point id beat Kyrinov with the measuring stick, as hes not worth taking at that point.

 

assuming one FOC at below 2k, youve only 2 Ics allowed, in a more competative arena, celestine is a must have, the second best IC for my money is jacobus.

someone care to make up the dog house for Kyrinov, he aint getting used this side of 6th ed sorry to say.

 

Ok proper comparison/look at him

he has the same stats as jacobus, average for a half decent IG HQ choice, with a 4+inv, thats not too bad

he has fearless, which is great, better than jacobus' stubborn rule by a small margin.

 

he has heightened fervour rule, which gives him the benefits of a loud hailer and a simulacrum. But heres the thing, how often do you run a confessor outside of a conclave and still maintain a level of competativeness? im sure you could run him with the naked chicks with the big 'thangs' but for my money conclaves are why you take these Ics.

so if your running with conclave what benefits do you get from a loud hailer and simulacrum? i dunno perhaps as a buffster he is better with the repentia, but how much benefit is he in that situation, how often do repentia make it into combat in numbers?

 

and then his mace, a PW is always nice, but for most people S5 AP4 doesnt worry that much, the 'stun' rule only works on multi-wound models, challenges etc, but these characters dont fare well in challenges IMO

 

so all in all hes a little meh in my book, i think the only real use he has is with repentia

the simulacrum and the presence of an IC will drastically increase the chances of getting the spirit of the matyr faith test passed

assuming you lose some to pre assault shooting and having a mistress and Ic attached your passing on a 2+ with a re-roll, which means even though your chicks are likely to die they will be hitting from the grave with re-rolls thanks to Kyrinov, eviscerators are mean!!!

good thing is faith tests are done at the start of the phase, and the wording of the rule was thought up pre-overwatch so there is a case for overwatch casualties to count, but ill leave that discussion for others to disect.

[SinnerBeta]

Well, I can get behind THAT argument. I don't entirely agree but it's most certainly solid.

 

If I may I'll add that his banner can be useful if you take him to buff a defence lie consisting of sisters - basic sisters or Retributiors sitting on an objective or within a structure and sniping the enemy. He makes popping of multiple acts of faith at once to rain on the enemy a bit more possible, and you run less risk that he and is Enclave (not so hot against non-Marine armies in it's usual configuration) will get swamped in a game against a horde army.

[greatcrusade08]

He makes popping of multiple acts of faith at once to rain on the enemy a bit more possible

 

i dont understand this?

his simulacrum only works on the unit hes attached too.. his icon gives a 6" fearless bubble, but not the simulacrum

 

 

The loud hailer is also a bubble effect, but you cant really bank on rolling alot of 6's, personally i find Jacobus' re-roll of faith points to be worth more than a 6+ regen

[Hanska]

Thanks SinnerBeta!

You bring up a point I missed. In a infantry heavy/only list camping him in between retributors(you'll be having 3 of them in a inf-list) gives you a small buff as any faith you get back will matter and fearless in a 5 sister unit in the back lines is great hands down. BS 5 and precision strike makes him a bit better than a superior at manning a quadgun also.

BUT

Miko also has a good point. Celestine and Jacobus bring so much more bang for the buck. What I don't agree with is a regular confessor doing anything better. For the 15p it is cheaper I just don't get what you can buy that makes up for even the special rules Kyrinov has.

So for the HQ I think it's:

 

Celestine

Jacobus

Kyrinov

Canoness

Confessor

(unless they have banned named charecters)

[SinnerBeta]

Oh yes, Jacobus' ability is most certainly better, I just want to say that Kyrinov's isn't that useless on it's own merits since those 6s can add up. Like I said, Kyrinov isn't a bad HQ - his problem is that the other two simply overshadow him with their awesomeness.

[*Furyou Miko]

OK, you do realise that to get the faith point back, you have to activate the AoF on an unmodified roll of a six, and then roll a second die, and get a six on that, right?

 

Also, he doesn't actually have a Power Mace (Sorry GC08). He has the Mace of Dimmamar, which is an Unusual Power Weapon with a special rule that's identical to Concussive. So he strikes at S3, AP3, with a stun effect. Other threads in this forum have explained how S3 AP3 is worse in general terms than S4 AP2 or S5 AP4.

 

On top of that, his BS5 comes with a truly epic weapon: A laspistol. Excuse me while I change, the excitement quite overcame me there. Yeah, I guess you can put him on a quad gun, but then you're wasting all those points spent on A: his Rosarius, and B: His Righteous Fury ability. A Canoness could do the same job for a fraction of the price.

 

Essentially, he's a slightly superior Crusader with wargear that benefits Sisters (barely). For 90 points.

[SinnerBeta]

It's a Bolt Pistol. Hope you don't need to change a second time.

[*Furyou Miko]

Oh, I apologise. That does make a huge difference. He's now merely laughably overpriced for that role instead of ridiculously, horribly overpriced.

[greatcrusade08]

Also, he doesn't actually have a Power Mace (Sorry GC08). He has the Mace of Dimmamar, which is an Unusual Power Weapon with a special rule that's identical to Concussive. So he strikes at S3, AP3, with a stun effect. Other threads in this forum have explained how S3 AP3 is worse in general terms than S4 AP2 or S5 AP4.

 

huh, that one sneaked past me, its becuase its called a mace that i mistook it, still as you say S3 is not great at all.

if he was worth taking i would have noticed it im sure :P

[SinnerBeta]

See Miko ? You're finally coming around.

[Fibonacci]

Is it just me or are the Elite units sub-par in most codexes?

 

Mistress' weapons calculate Instant Death off leadership, and are only S8 (so they cause Instant Death against Leadership 4, and wound Ld10 on 6s).

I think you are shorting yourself here.

 

"Neural Whips follow the rules for power weapons. In addition, Hits caused by a neural whip against non-vehicle units strike at Strength 8 and roll To Wound against the opponent's Leadership characteristic instead of their Toughness."

 

Instant Death (bold part on page 16) "If a model suffers an unsaved Wound from an Attack that has a Strength value of double its Toughness value or greater, it is reduced to 0 Wounds and removed as a casualty."

 

It is a S8, AP3 weapon that rolls To Wound against Leadership but only the To Wound roll is against Leadership. AP is still versus Armor as normal and ID is still against Toughness as described in the rules. Nothing changes that. Rolling to wound against Leadership does not affect anything but the roll to wound.

 

And to add another odd twist ... gun emplacements are Battlefield Debris that do not have the vehicle type. With a WS of 0 they are hit automatically. They also have a Ld of 0 so are wounded automatically. But since they have a T7 the neural whip will not ID a gun emplacement. It is just an oddity with no practical use but a Mistress of Repentance can automatically kill a gun emplacement.

[*Furyou Miko]

We had that argument on the Necron boards with the Abyssal Staff, and it made its way into the FAQ. Wounding against Leadership basically replaces the target Toughness value with their Leadership value in all respects.

 

SB: The one challenging the commonly accepted point of view should be the one to lay out their argument first, because the other side's argument has been done to death.