How to use tactical squads

[Tiger9gamer]

Alright, I have a confession to make... I dont know how to use tactical squads that well. I don't know what they should do. should they sit in the back and shoot at things with thier heavy weapons? should they run forward and take objectives? how many would be good?

 

 

any help would be good ;)

[Giga]

I'll quote my post from another thread:

 

I currently play 1850pts and run 3 tac squads equipped as such:

 

10 guys

flamer

combiflamer

plasma cannon

rhino

total: 220 pts

 

Depending on your list and your local metagame, you may want to replace the flamer/combiflamer with melta/combimelta or even plasma/combiplasma combo. I generally have lots of multimeltas elsewhere in my armies and prefer to keep tacticals as anti infantry.

 

Don't bother with close combat upgrades. Tacticals are crap in combat. Just make sure they don't end up in any unwanted assaults.

 

Tactically, I combat squad them and put the plasma cannon combat squad on an objective or on a good vantage point, while the flamer/combiflamer squad goes forward with the army to grab objectives, drop dual flamer templates from the rhino hatch, or sometimes even get out and rapid fire something. In kill points missions you don't combat squad and just put the entire group in the rhino. While this usually wastes your plasma cannon, you're getting bigger rapid fire volleys so it's an okay trade off.

 

The rhino is generally used as mobile cover (for example, vindicator and rhino move side by side in movement phase, vindicator shoots, then rhino turbo boosts in front of it to give it a cover save and prevent assault on the vindicator) and as a walling system (tacticals disembark, then rhino rides forward 12-18" to block the path of an incoming enemy assault unit, stalling them for a turn or forcing them to enter terrain/look for other paths). If you have good target saturation and know how to take advantage of cover, your rhinos should easily survive up to turn 3-4, but don't make the mistake of being overly defensive with them, they're supposed to be expendable.

[Naminé]

There is a video on the blog (accessible through my sig) on how I run Tact squads, tactics and their strengths.

 

If you don't feel like watching that, I will summarise here that Tacticals are a great unit choice because of the sheer amount of options they possess.

There is never a situation in which they cannot help in some way, and so they are never a poor choice in an army!

[Muctar]

Tacticals are primarily anti-infantry units designed to operate at mid to close range. If you keep that in mind when building your list and when playing you'll notice how effective they can be. They're especially effective when working together and when the special weapons (including combi weapons on the sergeant) are geared to their anti-infantry roll.

 

I always have at least two tactical squads, but am more likely to have 3, with flamers and combi-flamers on the sergeants. The flamer & combi are used together to really put out damage against an infantry squad during the game. This combo combined with rapid firing bolters will usually destroy or cripple the target. The damage output is even greater if you have two squads attacking a single target. Not many infantry units will fair well against 4 flamer templates, and 30 bolter shots.

 

Anti-armour and terminators are usually handled by units better suited to taking them on.

 

As for heavy weapons I either use plasma cannons or missiles, and they are used much in the same way Giga has explained above. Although if I am running a melta-tac I will include a multi-melta. I've personally never used lascannons since they do not fit my theme or playstyle, but with tacticals it is the cheapest way to get infantry-mounted lascannons into a list.

[spartan249]

Personally, I'd either run Scouts for the most part to save points or go whole hog and run 5-6 tactical squads.

 

In a C:SM army that's running heavy on non-troops for the killing power and utility, Scouts provide a objective sitter unit to throw on an objective and maybe provide a bit of shooting support for the forces that are doing the real work. Bolster that ruin and get camo cloaks, and you suddenly get an annoyingly tough scout squad that requires specialized weapons to remove them. Not all that impressive, but IMO better then tac squads at this role.

 

In a C:SM army that's running a heavy frontal assault supported by flanking forces, a large amount of tactical marines can serve adequately as the bulk of the mid-field and advancing tidal wave of ceramite. Tac squads will require either focused or specialized firepower to remove quickly from the board, and expensive shooting units with a lot of shots will swear profusely when they have 10-12 different targets they have to neutralize. Combine this with a force multiplier like Pedro or Vulkan, and tac squads suddenly become quite vicious. You can decide to add razorbacks or not to extend this target saturation even further (HB Razorbacks are a little bunk, so I'd go for Las/Plas or TL Assault Cannon if I were to ever use the failbacks).

 

I'd run Tac Squads with Missile Launcher and Melta Gun (for an army without Vulkan) or with a Multi-Melta and Flamer (with Vulkan). I'd also utilize Drop Pods as the transport of choice, as you can put the two combat squads in the same pod while getting the power to decide where to focus your forces. It's also the safest way of achieving Local Superiority, which is the most important thing to establish for any marine player IMO.

[maturin]

There is no absolute "right" or "best" way to run tactical squads, since there's so many possible ways to build them. It all depends the role you want them to play in your army.

 

Remember, aside from scouts, these are the only scoring units you'll have, and you'll need to hold at least one objective to win most of the games. The first thing to decide is how your army is planning on winning. Are you going to hold all objectives? Hold one and deny the rest? Hold none but table your enemy? Some combination thereof?

 

This will dictate how aggressively you want to build your tacs, whether they need transport or not, and how many tac squads you'll need. As others have pointed out, if all you need is a single squad to hold an objective, then maybe scouts are better. But if you're going to aggressively advance and clear/seize enemy objectives, then you'll probably want full size tac squads with a transport. In that situation, rely on your special weapons (+ a combi) as your heavy won't get to fire at full BS often. You'll need a full squad (probably) in order to clear the objective and then hold it against enemies trying to get it back, so that probably means a rhino or drop pod...

 

Do you see how the role you want for them defines their necessary loadout?

 

But keep in mind that other, more specialized, units in the codex are available to do what the tac squad does as well. Sternguard, scouts, assault marines, devastators, and terminators are all better than tac squads within a narrow spectrum of goals. So why take a tac squad? Well, you need two troops units at least so might as well make one a tough objective holder...

 

I'm beginning to ramble, but you get the drift...

[MagicMan]

If you're going to be running forward and claiming objectives, the Heavy Bolter can be a sweet deal, since it can snap fire three times while moving.

[greatcrusade08]

i still wish they would add a heavy flamer to a tac squads arsenal.. heavy flamer, flamer and combi-flamer would be awesome

[Brom MKIV]

i still wish they would add a heavy flamer to a tac squads arsenal.. heavy flamer, flamer and combi-flamer would be awesome

Seconded!

 

Alright, I have a confession to make... I dont know how to use tactical squads that well. I don't know what they should do. should they sit in the back and shoot at things with thier heavy weapons? should they run forward and take objectives? how many would be good?

Not much I can add to what has already been said so ill try to go a simpler route. Tactical marines basically bring mass to your army in the form of cheap resilient bodies with bolters. Mass bolter fire is their strength and with the odd plas shots will wittle down any infantry. Meanwhile they are actually rather hard to get rid of for their cost, kind of a waste of attention but when ignored they can make you pay, and their scoring. They accomplish more than people think they can, which is actually another strength, being underestimated. Because of these traits I have come to love seeing tactical marines on the board.

 

IMO tacs work best when supported by countercharge units and in proximity to higher priority targets, making for hard decisions by your opponent. In effect they add a cushion of forgiveness that elite armies lack through sheer resilience. On that note it could be argued that mass tac spam is effective, and it can be in the right context, however if done wrong these types of armies can easily suffer from lack of heavy weapons and other issues like flexibility. That being said 60 tacs in rhinos can be a bitch to get rid of in 5 turns for anyone.

 

Anyway IME the most effective tacs ive seen in 6th are 2-3 full squads kitted out with matching weaponry (melta melta cbmelta, plas plas cbplas etc, but no combat upgrades) with transports, and again supported by killier units like dreads, termies, mephiston etc. They cruise/advance to bolter range and lay down bolter fire and plas shots at higher valued infantry. The heavy weapon slowly gets left behind to shoot his weapon until he runs for a turn. Alternately a drop pod for transport is ok with melta as the go-to, although in my opinion this is more the realm of elite killers like sternguard and such since the one thing tacs still dont do good in 6th is combat, but thats what combat tactics is for. Basically they dont EVER engage in combat or put themselves in a position to be assaulted without support, unless they have a VERY good reason to.

 

Hope this gave you a better perspective.

[Tiger9gamer]

would you say it is worth taking a heavy bolter in at least one squad?

[greatcrusade08]

would you say it is worth taking a heavy bolter in at least one squad?

 

snap fire rules make the HB a better choice than in 5th IMO.. but the armaments need to match your meta..

if your facing lots of infantry armies, the HB is nice, lots of mech, not so good

[Brom MKIV]

If on foot or in a rhino take either lascannon or plasma cannon, to me plasma gun is a given (this would vary if HF was an option to combo with flamer). Tacs have the cheapest las in the dex and plasma is just all around great this edition. If you have no desire to ever combat squad the unit go with the plas cannon, if you keep that option open consider las instead.

[Ba5eball]

i still wish they would add a heavy flamer to a tac squads arsenal.. heavy flamer, flamer and combi-flamer would be awesome

 

I've heard a lot of rumors that DA will get heavy flamers in tactical squads. Given how the 4th edition DA were a test-dex, I'd expect them on every other SM army pretty soon.

 

Like Brom said, plasma guns should probably be your go to unless you know you are facing lots of armor or hordes. In that case, consider a melta or flamer, though plasma can handily take out many vehicles if you hit the right facing.

 

I tend to have my tactical squads combat squadded with heavy weapons (Lascannon or plasma cannon) in the rear and have the assault weapon/sergeant squad saunter up behind my armor or terminators: something more scary, just to lay down firepower.

 

It's important to also think about tacticals as bodies, not troops sometimes. Learn to use them to provide cover saves or start an assault they can survive one round so that your other unit won't be assaulted the next turn. This might get you into a pickle in scoring games though.

[Tiger9gamer]

Alright, so maybe something like this?

 

Troop 1: Tactical squad (10 man, All bolters, flamer, heavy bolter, combi-flamer Rhino)-215pts

Troop 2: Tactical squad (10 man, All bolters plasma gun, combi-plasma Rhino)-225pts

Troop 3: Tactical squad (10 man, All bolters, melta gun, combi-melta, Rhino)-220pts

 

I'm just hesitant about heavy weapons for my tactical marines

[Giga]

Judging by new DA, it would appear tac squads are getting access to flakk missiles. This is actually an awesome change. oO

 

EDIT: Also, heavy flamer would be great and not overpowered at all IMHO. Right now, the only heavy weapon that makes sense on a tac squad is a plasma cannon. With flakk missiles and a heavy flamer, it'd give us some much needed options.

[Brom MKIV]

EDIT: Also, heavy flamer would be great and not overpowered at all IMHO. Right now, the only heavy weapon that makes sense on a tac squad is a plasma cannon. With flakk missiles and a heavy flamer, it'd give us some much needed options.

I agree and hopefully this is the start of a trend for future dexes.

 

Alright, so maybe something like this?

 

Troop 1: Tactical squad (10 man, All bolters, flamer, heavy bolter, combi-flamer Rhino)-215pts

Troop 2: Tactical squad (10 man, All bolters plasma gun, combi-plasma Rhino)-225pts

Troop 3: Tactical squad (10 man, All bolters, melta gun, combi-melta, Rhino)-220pts

 

I'm just hesitant about heavy weapons for my tactical marines

Sure that looks fine, but lose the heavy bolter and pick up a better heavy for each. If you want dakka take double HB speeder squadrons, they move 12" and pour out 12 HB shots at full BS for only 120 pts.

Tacs want something more powerful, like plasma cannon, lascannon, multimelta. Dont get hung up on the snapshot thing, its usually 1-2 times a game you may have to do that so its not worth taking a subpar weapon. A PC for 5 pts or a LC for 10 is worth the investment even if your not sure you'll use it more than twice. Hell to put it into perspective a combi weapon costs 5-10 pts man.

 

The double melta and double flamers are fine for squads that intend to combat squad and leave a decent heavy behind while they zoom forward to get into the (very short) range of their weaponry.

 

If keeping the squad together stick with plasma because it threatens everything short of land raiders and has the same range or better than bolters. Place the PC towards the front but not first. From that turn on the whole unit moves (if necessary) and fires while the PC model stays stationary and fires. A few turns later the PC model moves then runs forward. Rinse repeat. Ive been smashed by several simple tac squads doing this and I can tell you its a pain to dig that heavy weapon out of the ablative wounds around him.

[greatcrusade08]

Judging by new DA, it would appear tac squads are getting access to flakk missiles. This is actually an awesome change. oO

 

EDIT: Also, heavy flamer would be great and not overpowered at all IMHO. Right now, the only heavy weapon that makes sense on a tac squad is a plasma cannon. With flakk missiles and a heavy flamer, it'd give us some much needed options.

 

i reckon the DA dex is going be used by alot of people!

[Brom MKIV]

i reckon the DA dex is going be used by alot of people!

Yep! I can just imagine every army that wants tacs starting with a DA HQ and a couple troops units with skyfiring missiles plus a new DAs flyer. Heck probably even a unit of DW knights.

[Tiger9gamer]

would it be worth taking out troop 1's heavy combi-flamer to just put out more bolter shots? maybe that is my Dakka squad, While I use the points from the combi-flamer to give troop 2 a plasma cannon? I don't have that many heavy weapon models

 

Also, where does it say you can have 2 combat squads in a rhino?

[cielaq]

FAQs for most (all?) SM codices contains errata for Combat Squads that includes following sentence:

"Note that two combat squads split from

the same unit can embark in the same transport vehicle,

providing its transport capacity allows."

[DarkGuard]

With Tactical squads, I prefer to use them as support units to more damaging ones such as my Sternguard and Terminators. They take weaponry that fills in any needs of army, and push behind or at times ahead of them, working in concert. Whether they're in Rhinos or not also effects loadout, I'd never put meltaguns on a footslogging squad for example, and only use that squad to soften up units at range. Squads in Rhinos are more dynamic and I rely on them more to support my pushes.

 

I feel that if you expect only a little from your Tactical squads, then you don't get disappointed.

 

Here's a link to all the FAQs, so you can then find the clause in the relevant FAQ(s). http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/index.p...howtopic=233909

[Tiger9gamer]

sweet :tu: how would you use the 2 in one rhino in gameplay?

[DarkGuard]

sweet :lol: how would you use the 2 in one rhino in gameplay?

 

You'd just use it for flexibility, like being able to shoot at two different units or at the same unit once you're out of the transport. And being able to waste big firepower from your opponent that would normally wipe out more than 5 Marines. Ideally, if doing this, the MM would be the better option as your closing down the opponent. Backed up by any special weapon.

[Tiger9gamer]

since I only have a heavy bolter, maybe I should do as you said before, but with two squads. one squad gets out the full 6" to burn things with flamers while the HB team gets out to provide "covering fire"

[DarkGuard]

Sounds good. Remember as well you don't have to split them, but it does seem to be quite good to do so at the moment.