Lagbenektelse Posted June 8, 2013 Share Posted June 8, 2013 I've just got to say that what I have read in the books thus far have been extremely plausible. Ferrus' character has been one of stoicism and bluntness, think future version of a blacksmith ramped up to eleven. He doesn't work hard he works smart by using technology and hitting a target with overwhelming force. Unless I am mistaken that is a tradition carried on by the Iron Hands but without the Primarchy self control to not worship the thing that allows them to hit targets with overwhelming force. As to Ferrus losing in battle to Fulgrim think of it this way. They were the closest of brothers, Fulgrim had a demon sword, and the whole point of Isstvan was that it was an ambush. See the old quote about "If you find yourself in a fair fight, then you did not plan accordingly." Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/268756-are-iron-hands-the-fall-guys/page/4/#findComment-3390298 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthMarko Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 ^ You are forgeting the first fight where Fulgrim kicks him after Manus attacks first and Phoenix guard plays snooker with his elites... Although this fight could go both ways - I'm still sorry for Ferrus... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/268756-are-iron-hands-the-fall-guys/page/4/#findComment-3407139 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zhoolda Posted July 6, 2013 Share Posted July 6, 2013 Just whant to say that I'm glad to hear so many peeps view's on my favourite legion! Reading through these pages I feel like quoting and debating almost every post :) But that would just be silly... Ferrus life story and achievements is what made me fall in love with the IH from the beginning. Now as Im finally reading the HH novels, eager to read about Ferrus in all his glory, I get really sad. There is not much to read about them and what there is to read feels poorly written. Maby the wrighters just didnt pay them enough attention thinking that the legion was of less importance than the others? But when I read "Iron Hands" and "Wrath of Iron" I at least know that the chapter is doing great i 40k! Some things still irritates me tho... like the quote in the space marine codex from a chapter master that no one has ever heard of (!?) When the two 40k novel's I just named clearly dictate thet the chapter is governed by a council! ... Awell sry for my bad grammar. Just one more thing! Some one was talking about how the IH veterans almost "shut down" when Ferrus fell. That wouldn't really surprise me. Who wouldn't feel paralysed after seeing their primarch fall? I remember reading that everyone in the mournival exept Loken fell into shock, powerless, when Horus collapsed after coming out from The Glory of Terra. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/268756-are-iron-hands-the-fall-guys/page/4/#findComment-3407855 Share on other sites More sharing options...
GhostMalone Posted July 7, 2013 Share Posted July 7, 2013 Okay off topic I know but why the hell did the necrodermis do nothing for ferrus! When he was beheaded it should have reattached right? Just pissed off because there are rumours his head is still alive by the mechanicum. God I just want him to be dead officially Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/268756-are-iron-hands-the-fall-guys/page/4/#findComment-3407993 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Eremon Posted July 7, 2013 Share Posted July 7, 2013 The necrodermis that's on his hands? That's never described as anything more than shiny arms that improved his crafting prowess? Why would that help him from a beheading? But of course there are rumors that he may still be alive somehow. All of the Primarchs have that. Guilliman is healing! In a stasis field. Sanguinius will return to us! From the grave. Because he is dead. Russ will return for the Wolftime! Despite his last known appearance being that of an old wolf going off alone to die mixed with the Viking death of one last suicidal hurrah of an old warrior and his closest brothers? The Khan, Corax, Vulkan, the Lion; they'll come back if you just believe! In fact only Dorn has no resurrecting story about him, that I'm aware of. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/268756-are-iron-hands-the-fall-guys/page/4/#findComment-3408017 Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1soul Posted July 7, 2013 Share Posted July 7, 2013 my favourite IH got killed by literally being stabbed in the back after nearly killing Little Horus Yeah, well take comfort in the fact that Little Horus would have almost certainly died had his comrade not sacrificed himself to keep the Iron Hand busy Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/268756-are-iron-hands-the-fall-guys/page/4/#findComment-3408064 Share on other sites More sharing options...
GhostMalone Posted July 7, 2013 Share Posted July 7, 2013 But with the whole necrodermis thing, it affected his eyes so it must have infused into his blood stream or something. Necrons can regenerate so why can't he? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/268756-are-iron-hands-the-fall-guys/page/4/#findComment-3408079 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted July 7, 2013 Share Posted July 7, 2013 Well, we don't know if Asirnoth is a Necron. Nothing says that Necrons are the only species in the 40K universe to have living metal. They're just the only known species. The other thing is that the metal only covers his hands from when he held the beast under the surface of molten magma. His eyes are basically silverlike in color, not actually metal. Truth is, that silver wyrm could be anything. IIRC, he killed in an area of Medusa where there were tons of scattered and abandoned technology. It's possible that wyrm was just a "guardian" construct made from nanotechnology to protect those ruins and that when Manus killed it, the nanites were fused to his hands, allowing hims to actually shape metal in ways that not even Vulkan could duplicate. But for all intents and purposes, Manus is just as vulnerable as any other immortal primarch. And if there's one thing I learned from watching Highlander, beheading is the surest way to kill something. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/268756-are-iron-hands-the-fall-guys/page/4/#findComment-3408082 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Eremon Posted July 7, 2013 Share Posted July 7, 2013 Because he's not a Necron? He's got their metal melted and fused onto his hands and, yeah that may have seeped in and affected other things like his eyes (but perhaps not, having vibrant mono-colored eyes is kind of a Primarch thing) but that doesn't mean he has all on their abilities or anything like that. Edit: Nnnnnninja'd Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/268756-are-iron-hands-the-fall-guys/page/4/#findComment-3408084 Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeremy1391 Posted July 7, 2013 Share Posted July 7, 2013 I remember a time when it was alluded that Ferrus became one with the machine and is actually the omnisiah... I have no sources just what I remember from years ago... And I thought the dragon c'tan was on mars not medusa..... Wasn't that mentioned in the story where "the golden warrior" banished the dragon to the stars or some such??? Meh it's 3am and I'm tired lol. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/268756-are-iron-hands-the-fall-guys/page/4/#findComment-3408104 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted July 7, 2013 Share Posted July 7, 2013 Yeah, the Void Dragon is on Mars. Although technically he would be a C'Tan, not a Necron. But whatever construct/creature Manus destroyed/killed, was in the shape of a giant serpent. If it is a Necron construct, it is possible it could have been fashioned by whatever forces the Void Dragon used long before humans settled on Medusa. Or it could be a leftover construct of a different xenos species and that when it was melted down, its remains bonded to Manus' burnt hands and ta-daa, he can now melt metal with the slightest touch. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/268756-are-iron-hands-the-fall-guys/page/4/#findComment-3408123 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade Garrett Posted July 7, 2013 Share Posted July 7, 2013 Hmmm....when Fulgrim cut off Ferrous's head he was overwhelmed by swirling energy, and in Angel Exterminatus he speaks of experiencing the Gorgon's thoughts and memories...Golden Throne! The Quickening! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/268756-are-iron-hands-the-fall-guys/page/4/#findComment-3408375 Share on other sites More sharing options...
GhostMalone Posted July 7, 2013 Share Posted July 7, 2013 So maybe fulgrim took up ferrus manus soul and currently the best brother duo who turned on one another are being made to share a room together. Awkward! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/268756-are-iron-hands-the-fall-guys/page/4/#findComment-3408384 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Eremon Posted July 7, 2013 Share Posted July 7, 2013 Suddenly the Perpetuals make sense. So now the question is, was He a McCleod? My vote goes for Sean Connery's character. I don't even care that he dies halfway through. That is awesome. Oh yeah, spoiler! :p Edit: And just remembered this is the Iron Hand thread. Ah well, this was a moment of overlap. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/268756-are-iron-hands-the-fall-guys/page/4/#findComment-3408415 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade Garrett Posted July 8, 2013 Share Posted July 8, 2013 Suddenly the Perpetuals make sense. So now the question is, was He a McCleod? My vote goes for Sean Connery's character. I don't even care that he dies halfway through. That is awesome. Oh yeah, spoiler! :p Edit: And just remembered this is the Iron Hand thread. Ah well, this was a moment of overlap. Well, now I'm trying to re-read Angel Exterminatus, except I "hear" all Fulgrim's lines as Sean Connery playing Ramirez the Egytian Scottish samurai, while Perturabo now has the voice of Clancy Brown as the Kurgan. This makes the book much more enjoyable, and is now head canon. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/268756-are-iron-hands-the-fall-guys/page/4/#findComment-3408528 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Eremon Posted July 8, 2013 Share Posted July 8, 2013 That is quite simply beautiful. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/268756-are-iron-hands-the-fall-guys/page/4/#findComment-3408532 Share on other sites More sharing options...
GhostMalone Posted July 8, 2013 Share Posted July 8, 2013 Sean Connery is rogal dorn fools! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/268756-are-iron-hands-the-fall-guys/page/4/#findComment-3408543 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Eremon Posted July 8, 2013 Share Posted July 8, 2013 Sean Connery is Rogal Dorn. How does Rogal Dorn sound like an immortal debonair agent dragon huntsman who broke out of prison-island to give birth to a treasure hunting professor who fights nazis and communists? Jesus Jaspcat. I like you but you gotta think, man. :p Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/268756-are-iron-hands-the-fall-guys/page/4/#findComment-3408558 Share on other sites More sharing options...
High MarshalGR Posted August 6, 2013 Share Posted August 6, 2013 In a sense, the HH novels haven't presented anything actually pleasing for their fans, but some points were accurate. Maybe like them doing nothing when Ferrus died. They were not portrayed as especially impulsive, quick to adjust, fluid on the field of battle. The sense I got from them was that of iron. Throw water on it and it's well on it's way to get eaten by rust. They were for me a legion without the hierarchical flexibility with order the SW had, the well-thought battle plan the IF worked on, the efficiency and thoroughness Ultramarines worked with, they fought like iron. A metal with weak points ready to be used by the enemy. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/268756-are-iron-hands-the-fall-guys/page/4/#findComment-3412990 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greyall Posted August 6, 2013 Share Posted August 6, 2013 Not saying you're wrong, High Marshal but, since the most meaningful battle we've seen the Iron Hands in is Isstvan V, they were also without any support, without any way out and, I imagine, in the 'take as many as you can before you fall' mindset. Even taking into account that the Hands are on the blunt side of tactics, what we have until now are remnants fighting a guerrilla war and a goddamned bloodbath by backstabbing. I'm not a IH fan at all, but there's a passing in Know no Fear when Guilliman muses that Ferrus was one of the Top 5 Primarchs he'd choose to win any war. I like to believe that, also because overwhelming force to a weak spot is a proven strategy. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/268756-are-iron-hands-the-fall-guys/page/4/#findComment-3413022 Share on other sites More sharing options...
High MarshalGR Posted August 6, 2013 Share Posted August 6, 2013 I agree there. I don't mean to say they are inferior to other legions/chapters, I'm just saying they work like iron, in their own way. They aren't what I would say flexible or adjusting, which was a issue which caused conflict between them, RG and Salamanders on Istvaan who preferred to organise a proper defense. As far as Guilliman goes, i do indeed think he would use his efficiency and commanding/organisational skills along with the other 4 Primarch in an almost undefeatable manner by means of using their strenghts. That is his craft after all. Leaving Guillman aside, I do think they should add more to the Iron Hands. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/268756-are-iron-hands-the-fall-guys/page/4/#findComment-3413102 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greyall Posted August 6, 2013 Share Posted August 6, 2013 Agreed. I liked them a lot in Angel Exterminatus. To use your words, they really work like Iron in that story, an iron mallet to be precise, they're major badasses. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/268756-are-iron-hands-the-fall-guys/page/4/#findComment-3413114 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted August 6, 2013 Share Posted August 6, 2013 Well, to be fair Guilliman said that with those five Primarchs he could win any war. The implication is that he needs all of them. But yeah, right now the Iron Hands are dealing from two major blows, their Primarch is dead and as far as the majority of the Legion is concerned, so are all of their veterans, champions and great warriors. And very few survived because the Morlocks had the farthest to travel back to the gunships. What few did are basically scattered to the wind, although every time we see an Iron Hand survivor, a Raven Guard and a Salamander aren't far behind. Essentially, the higher heirarchy of the Legion has been destroyed. The only command structures that exist are those that were not at Isstvan and those are isolated to the various Expedition Fleets. I think that's why the Iron Hands in The Lion were so willing to throw in their lot with Guilliman. Herepresented something that could direct them. If they were iron, they chose him to be the one to wield that iron. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/268756-are-iron-hands-the-fall-guys/page/4/#findComment-3413147 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bannus Posted August 6, 2013 Share Posted August 6, 2013 I have to say that it is because of the shallow treatment regarding the Iron Hands that has pretty much turned me off of Herersy-era......anything. I have no desire to read the books, immerse myself in the fluff or buy any of the products thanks to the superficial treatment of the Iron Hands during the Heresy. Add to that the conflicting fluff that the HH books introduce clearly shows that the Iron Hands were treated with little more than an afterthought for these novels. This is compunded by Forge World's pathetic treatment of the Iron Hands in their Heresy books. "We have too many Legions that have black as their main color - so let's retcon the Iron Hands" "What color should we give them?" "Let's make their armor a dark bolt-gun metal and keep their shoulderpads black - that should be original." Gee, Forge World just couldn't afford to any more thought into this decision that they failed to realize they changed the Iron Hands' color scheme to mimic the Iron Warriors. Yeah, real unique. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/268756-are-iron-hands-the-fall-guys/page/4/#findComment-3413222 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted August 6, 2013 Share Posted August 6, 2013 Forgeworld hasn't touched the Iron Hands in their Heresy book. They will touch them in Massacre, but that has yet to be released to my knowledge. So far the only thing that has been shown are some painted models that are owned by some of the Forgeworld team which would make the colors personal flavor, not professional opinion. And just to clarify, which contradicting fluff are you referring to? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/268756-are-iron-hands-the-fall-guys/page/4/#findComment-3413226 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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