C:CSM - What has worked well for you?

[Brother Amarel]

So, being as there's been a lot of back and forth about what might or might not work (with accusations of Mathshammer, etc), I though it might nice to have a topic purely about what you've used (in at least a couple of games) that have worked out well for you, common theories be damned!

 

HQ:

 

Huron - He's a bit of a box of tricks, really. Gives Infiltrate / Outflank, can mash most things in melee and has a heavy Flamer to boot. He is a bit squishy, though, so make sure he has a unit to sit in with a Champion to take challenges if required.

 

Nurgle Biker Lord with LC & PF and Sigil of Corruption - Fast, dangerous and tricky to take out. There's not much he's scared of but be wary of certain challenges as with only power armour, even power swords can take their toll.

 

Slaaneshi DP with Power Armour, Wings and Black Mace - Extremely threatening to just about anything, but costly and can come a cropper if you leave him hanging in the wind too much.

 

ELITES:

 

Plasma Terminators - 7 or 8 Terminators with Combi-Plas and a mix of Power Weapons. Walk them in, rather than risk Deep Striking these days and don't be afraid to use that Plasma when the chance presents itself (opposing Terminators are particularly nice targets, even Hammernators can be wittled down).

 

TROOPS:

 

CSM's with MoS - Cheap mark that lets you hit first against opposing Marines, I still like Melta's on them as they're going to be getting into the thick of the action and general go with Ultra-Grit.

 

CSM's with MoK - Cheap mark that gives you extra Attacks on the charge / when charged (mostly). I still go with Flamers on these as infantry moppers and keep them cheap by swapping Bolters for BP's.

 

Plague Marines (here as I don't take them as Elites) - Outstanding value still, T5, Feel No Pain, double Plas on base numbers, Plague Knives and Defensive Grenades. 7 of them with double plas is less than 200pts, which is terrific.

 

FAST:

 

Nurgle Bikers - Cheap threat, especially when armed with double Melta for tank-hunting and make a great Bodyguard for a Nurgle biker lord.

 

HEAVY:

 

Obliterators - Still fantastic and the MoN takes them back to T5. Watch out for lack of Fearless and getting caught out of range now that the same weapon can't be fired twice in a row.

 

Havocs - Still cheap and very useful, Autocannon is still a favourite due to threatening just about everything.

[Snejk]

I found CSM with MoN, 2 plasma guns and Icon of vengence being a very good unit. That T 5 goes a long way.

 

Just a question: What is Ultra-Grit?

[VoteForPedro]

I'm mainly been playing a Slaanesh themed list so my responses will be a little slanted in that direction!

 

HQ

Burning Brand of Skalathrax on a bike mounted Lord is just win. I run my MoS lord with a pack of slaanesh bikers and they always come in handy.

 

Troops

Noise Marines: Sonic Weapons can be a pain in the arse to use, especially with the Salvo rule but they work fantastically for their intended purpose, i.e. lots of dakka. I've build my lists since the new book around a core of 2x 10 man Noise Marine Squads kitted with Sonic Weaponry and IoE, it's worked out very nice for me.

 

Fast Attack

Bikers with MoS and IoE are brutal and reasonably cheap to boot.

 

I've also had a lot of luck with the Heldrake/ Baleflamer combo.

 

Heavy

As you mentioned, both Oblits and Havocs rock. I enjoy running 5 Havocs with Autocannons together with 2 single Oblits.

 

Just a question: What is Ultra-Grit?

 

Bolter, Bolt Pistol and CCW. The name comes from an old rule called True Grit that Grey Knights and Death Guard (among others) had that enabled them to use their weapon as if it were a pistol in close combat.

[Snejk]

Thanks Pedro.

[Excessus]

All in all I am happy with the codex. There are some things that I feel could have been done differently, but ofc there always are...

 

HQ:

Sorcerer, lvl3 unmarked with bio/tele. A great guy to buff/debuff with and always delivers for a low cost

Huron, well infiltrating lovelyness and random superpowers, what's there not to like? :)

Khorne jugger axe lord, well, only one thing has defeated him in cc, and that is wraiths+destro lord...

 

Troops:

Cultists, do more than you'd imagine. Auxiliary scoring troops that will run away and hid a lot, but will also rally a lot and get back on top of that objective. Too many uses to overlook!

Plain old CSM, grit and plasma/melta, sword/bomb for champ and they are good to go, vets ofc...

 

Elites:

Haven't tried any yet actually...

 

Fast Attack:

Heldrake, always bring the mayhem and destruction!

Bikers...just awesome with anything really, melta or plasma and mark after occation. T6 is good but not needed...

 

Heavy Support:

Havocs with AC or ML do their job properly, vets and perhaps a few extra bodies.

AC/LC pred, cheap and cheerful!

Oblits, hardy and flexible. You can't not like them. MoN definitely! (only time I was hesitant to shoot with them was against a tally army, lol)

[Lepaca]

I'm mainly been playing a Slaanesh themed list so my responses will be a little slanted in that direction!

 

HQ

Burning Brand of Skalathrax on a bike mounted Lord is just win. I run my MoS lord with a pack of slaanesh bikers and they always come in handy.

 

Troops

Noise Marines: Sonic Weapons can be a pain in the arse to use, especially with the Salvo rule but they work fantastically for their intended purpose, i.e. lots of dakka. I've build my lists since the new book around a core of 2x 10 man Noise Marine Squads kitted with Sonic Weaponry and IoE, it's worked out very nice for me.

 

Fast Attack

Bikers with MoS and IoE are brutal and reasonably cheap to boot.

 

I've also had a lot of luck with the Heldrake/ Baleflamer combo.

 

Heavy

As you mentioned, both Oblits and Havocs rock. I enjoy running 5 Havocs with Autocannons together with 2 single Oblits.

 

All in all very similar to what I'm planing to run... good to know that it seems to be working for you! :)

[Kol Saresk]

@Excessus, how many of your units are Marked other than the Juggerlord?

 

@VoteforPedro, what is the load out you give to your Noise Marine Champions?

[Zhorzh]

Chaos Sorcerers are awesome. Chaos cultists are also awesome, they haven't let me down yet and I think they never will.

 

Two days ago I rolled the Infiltration trait, and I was pleasantly suprised by 2x4 infiltrating Combi plasma Terminators. Now I gotta try Huron and 2x6 Combi Plasma Termies as soon as possible.

 

Black Crusader is extremely fun against Space Marines. Too bad that you need luck or Abbadon to get it. :o

 

Obliterators so far are hit-or-miss: they either kill a couple of models/do nothing, or perform amazingly well (like the one time when 3 of them scorched a unit of 20 Warriors and a Cryptec in a single turn with Heavy Flamers).

[AekoldHelbrass]

HQ:

 

Only Khârn. Others are lying down in the first challenge (I admin, I haven't tried biker-lord with MoN because I hate Nurgle). But Khârn is a monster, under Apostle it's 7 S7 AP2 attacks, no one stand a chance.

 

Troops:

 

Zombies. They are simply indestructible. They do extremely well both as MSU and as a 2*35 hordes. Small 10 unit is just great if you're placing counter-charge, or skreening against outflankers. And 35-man horde is unmovable by anything at all.

 

Fast Attack:

 

Helldrake is somehow controversial. He maims enemy a lot, on the other hand he doesn't make a big difference really.

 

Heavy Support:

 

Forgefiends with ectoplasmas did surprisingly well. They are quite high, so they can see more than havocs, and good ectoplasma shot destroys full unit of terminators who just deep striked. And they are a bit tougher for small arms fire than Oblits.

[Excessus]

@Kol: I mark oblits with MoN, and bikes with MoK...that's it!

[Lootzer]

Sorc with brand and jump pack (with raptors) from HQ

Cultists

Bike plasma suicide squad (3 bikses with 2 plasmas and plasma champ)

Raptors with 2 meltas

 

Haven't tried the chiken and fiends yet (waiting till I paint all the stuff I got to buy them)

 

Edit:

I almost forgot - dirge casters

[the jeske]

nurgle biker lords , khorn lords , bikers , nurgle oblits , plasma csm and pms were ok . I had a blast with key on a sorc with 9 terminators deepstriking as ally for a necron tremor staff build . I think that is it . everything else wasnt good enough , cost too much or would force me to play 2k+ which not bad in itself aint played a lot here [that is why I didnt list terminators or DPs].

 

 

ah forgot huron , as long as you are not playing against Rune priests he is good.

[Bonzi]

HQ: Sorc lvl 3 with spell familiar and telepathy. Spell Familiar is brokenly cheap for the protection it offers and 3 levels of mastery means you can use Telepathy to its fullest. Rolling Invisibility or Puppet Master will make your opponents head explode.

 

TROOPS: CSM or Cultists can both be taken dirt cheap in large numbers. I've had a lot of luck taking them with no marks and just relying on a horde of T4/3+ to carry the day.

 

FAST: Spawn with Mark of Nurgle. Fearless fast screen/tarpit unit from hell. Combined with a Sorc throwing Invisibility on them and they become almost unkillable.

 

HEAVY: Havocs. CHEAP CHEAP autocannon Havocs.

[jb7090]

I played DE for years and only recently decided to give them a break and move to CSM, with that being said a few of my favorite units from over the past could months are:

 

HQ- Khorn biker lord with the axe and 3-5 khorn bikers. I prefer the bike to the jug because I can turbo. Nurgle DP with wings, PA and the Mace, while a very expensive unit(a little too expensive tbh) this guy is quite the beat stick. I think Nurgle and Tzeentch are the best marks for our DP(shrouded give a 2+ cover save just flying around in the open and re rolling 1's is almost as good as terminator armor).

 

Elite- Been wanting to try out a hellbrute with reaper/ML, seems ok on paper but I can never seem to work it into the list.

 

Troops - vanilla CSM's in rhinos and a bunch of cultists, whats not to love?

 

Fast attack- The codex's best slot IMO. Baledrakes, chaos spawn, biikers.

 

Heavy- autocannon havocs all the way. Later when/if I get the models I'll work in a mauler/forgefiend but for now Im happy with my havocs and occasionally a predator.

[Possessed Marine]

I tried this and it worked well.

 

HQ

 

Typhus

 

Lord w/ murder sword

 

 

 

Troops

 

4 x 10 Plague Zombies

 

7 x Plague marines 1 x Plasma Gun Meltabombs

 

 

 

Elite

 

Hellbrute w/ Plasma Cannon & power scourge

 

 

 

Vs. Blood Angels I forget what exactly he had but he did have the storm raven & a Land Raider along with 2 tac squads.

 

I was able to blow up the LR with a meltabomb, the zombies tied up units long enough to get typhus or the lord into CC and were able to sit on objectives. He didn't use the SR to full effect, he had it in skimmer mode due to small table & I was able to get the hellbrute into CC with it in order to tie it up until the end of the game. In the end I won, 3 objectives to 0.

 

EDIT: Typhus was a great investment... the destroyer hive killed a bunch of stuff, and his one power that weakens everything was great... the plague zombies were causing more wounds due to that.

[Polaria]

My actual Chaos army is still on the planning table, but I've been using CSM as allies for my Necron force and here are my top three:

 

1) Warpsmith - Very killy HQ. I don't usually use his actual special rules, but meltagun, flamer, 2+ save and crapload of S6/AP2 attacks makes him well worth his points.

2) Chaos Spawns - Basic tarpit. Cheap as soap and fast enough to actually get into combat quickly.

3) Cultists - Cheap scoring unit. 'nuff said, really.

[RolandTHTG]

Huron - makes dreadnoughts his B****, anything not in Termi armor wimper

 

MoN marines - toughness 5 alone seems to double their survivability

 

ML3 Sorceror - Telepathy is just a cruel group at that level.

 

Havoks and Obliterators have been their normal Reliable selves.

[40kChrista]

AC Havocs have been wonderful... :)

 

The Dark Apostle has actually been good keeping cultists in place... :D

 

The Burning Brand on anything that can take it... :wub:

 

If I can get the maneuvering down, a Jugger Lord with AoBF is a monster... ;)

[Aidoneus]

Abaddon: Amazing beatstick, hard to place. I deep-struck him with 5 termies, and he split off and did his own thing the following turn. I was lucky to be playing Relic, so everyone was clustered in the middle. Abby charged a squad of nurgle marines (down to 4 or 5 at the time) with attached sorcerer and huron. Round 1, killed the champ. Round 2, killed huron. Round 3-4, killed the sorcerer. Round 5, killed the marines. Next turn Abby gets charged by Typhus, and kills him in 1 round. Abby then promptly turns into a spawn! :P The game ended there, but even before we rolled for that, I was just laughing. :lol: I should say, I used his ability to fill my Troops with 4 units of nurgle chosen, loaded to the gills with special weapons. They were okay, but honestly too expensive to build a whole army around. I thought it was very fluffy, having Abby surrounded by his elite soldiers (termies, chosen, and havocs), and it was enjoyable to play, but I can't say I recommend it for competitive play.

 

Daemon Prince: I wasn't a fan of the khorne prince, but Tzeentch with Wings, PA, and Black Mace is insane! I don't give him any psychic powers, so he just flies on and charges into melee. The mace is utterly broken on a monstrous creature, and I haven't yet met anything that can stand up to this guy (including huron with invisibility from a nearby sorcerer).

 

Khorne Lord with Blind Axe: He's good, no doubt about it. I ran him in a unit of berzerkers in a rhino for a couple games, and held them just behind my front lines as a counter-assault unit. As such, he didn't kill a whole lot, simply because he wasn't in combat that much. However, when he was in combat, he wrecked face.

 

Nurgle Lord on Bike with Murder Sword: The bike+nurgle combo is awesome, and the lord+3 nurgle bikers are tough enough to get to combat, unless you opponent seriously focuses on them. Overall, the murder sword was pretty "meh." I used the bike so he could make it to his target, a terminator chaplain. And yes, it destroyed that model in 1 round, easily. However, the rest of the time it's just a power sword for more than double the usual cost. I doubt I'll take it again.

 

Terminators: I took the unit of 5 I built for 5th ed, with 3 combi-meltas, heavy flamer, and chainfist. The did their job and protected abaddon on the way down, but unfortunately came in turn 4 and didn't have much impact on the game. I'd like to try them again sometime and see what happens when there are still juicy melta targets or heavy weapons squads to terrify.

 

Helbrutes: These are a mixed bag. On the one hand, their crazy-table is worlds better than it used to be, now happening less often and with better results. They're also nice and cheap for WS/BS 4 walkers, which we don't have many of. On the other hand, they lost their standard combi-bolters, smoke launchers, and third attack. As such, I'm running 3 and using them mostly as gun platforms, with a MM, a plasma cannon, and a linked lascannon. I wouldn't say I'm in love with these guys, but they tend to do the job pretty admirably for a combined 335pts between them, so I'm certainly going to keep using them. Considering how unreliable our dreads were in the last codex, I consider this a big improvement.

 

Cultists: I've only taken these in basic 50pt packages, but they've done the job. That is to say, the fill up a mandatory Troop slot, and if the enemy doesn't pick on them too much they can score. For the cost, it's certainly hard to complain!

 

CSMs: I like the customizability. Mark of Nurgle seems to help quite a bit, VotLW has saved them at least once and is hilarious when facing marines, a limited number of CCWs makes for a viable CC unit without costing too much, and of course it's nice to have 2 special weapons and be able to score. I want to try these out some more with more combinations, like a dedicated CC slaanesh unit. Solid choice.

 

Chosen: They were troops when I used them, and had MoN. With T5, you can make a 6 or 7 man unit with 4-5 special weapons, and it's tough enough to stick around for a while. I had 2 units with 4 plasma and a lascannon, 1 unit with 4 meltaguns, and 1 with 4 flamers and a heavy bolter. The flamers came up a little short against other T5 marines who were spread out well, and 4 meltaguns is a bit overkill, but the plasma squads actually did fairly well.

 

Berzerkers: Mostly the same as last edition. It is even more important now to get the charge and wipe the unit in turn 1. However, they dropped 2pts, so I suppose that's fair. Not a lot to say, except that I plan to keep using them regularly, if not in every list.

 

Heldrakes: The model receives a D+ from me, so I converted a couple, which you can see here. They're amazing! The hades is very underwhelming, although to be fair I haven't played vs any other flyers. The baleflamer though is just god-like. :wub: You can move nearly anywhere you want, and flame anything in 3+ or worse to death, regardless of cover. I also really enjoy vector strike, which often lets me finish off the 1-2 models left from the baleflamer's shot in the previous round. And 12/12/10 with 3 HPs, a 5++ and It Will Not Die makes for quite a resilient aircraft.

 

Bikers: I've been waiting for so long for these to be cost-effective again, so I'm very happy. A unit of 4 with 2 melta and champ with either power fist or lightning claw has appeared in nearly all my lists so far. They do fine at T5, but MoN does provide a significant boost. I have used them to sprint up a flank to threaten vehicles, suicide-rush a land raider, or hold back to counter deep-strikers (especially when facing drop podding dreadnoughts). They've done very well in all those roles! It's a cheap, relatively durable utility unit that I am very pleased with!

 

Forgefiend: It is pricey, and BS is unfortunate. I've also been facing MEQ horde since I built him, and he does very poorly in that situation. However, he's great vs light-to-medium vehicles, and can reliably pop a transport per turn. I also found out that he's quite good at flyer defense. He took a storm raven down to 1 hp for me, letting me finish it off with a lucky linked lascannon shot before it could drop off its Death Company passengers. I want to see how the forgefiend does in a more mech- or flyer-heavy environment, because I think it will be much more useful there. I don't plan to take ecto-plasma, because at 24" I'd rather just have a vindicator. Speaking of which...

 

Vindicator: Killed a land raider 1 game, immobilized another on turn 1 of a different game, so I'd say the new blast rules make this a deadly anti-tank unit. And the S10 blast is as awesome as ever. I highly recommend taking a 5pt combi-bolter, so that a result of weapon destroyed only has a 50% chance of taking off your big cannon.

 

Defiler: The pricetag is quite steep, but I think it's worth it. Hold it back and away from melta and plasma (and even heavy weapons squads sometimes, depending on your enemy's deployment). With 4 HPs, Daemon, and IWND this is surprisingly tough to kill for an AV12 walker. I'm not saying it's the most efficient unit ever, but it's done well for me.

 

Havocs: Cheap heavy weapons. 'Nuf said.

 

HQ: Sorc lvl 3 with spell familiar and telepathy. Spell Familiar is brokenly cheap for the protection it offers and 3 levels of mastery means you can use Telepathy to its fullest. Rolling Invisibility or Puppet Master will make your opponents head explode.

ML3 Sorceror - Telepathy is just a cruel group at that level.

I've played TJ a couple times recently, and dear god are the above statements true! Divination be damned; I fear telepathy!

[Spaz431]

Havocs posted in dual ADL creating fire lines my enemies have no choices against.

[Sception]

mace prince, axe/bike lord, unmarked telepathy sorcerer, 2+ units of 10 ultragrit CSM vets w/ plasma, bikes, auto havocs in quad gun ADL (I want to try las havocs and icarus ADL, but don't have the models for it), and nurgle oblits have all done well for me. No surprises there, I guess, it's all obvious stuff.

 

I have not had the opportunity to run the drake yet, but I've seen it run to devastating effect and will be picking up / converting a pair of them in the none too distant future, due to my recent cheap acquisition of a zombie dragon to use in imitation of Aidoneus's conversions. Curiously enough, I'm getting it from some local guy who was going to use it in the same conversions, but ended up getting a pair of regular drake models on the cheap. Any chance there's a fellow B&C Chaos player in the Reisterstown Maryland area?

 

I like my terminator retinue (mostly plasma armed), but they have not done well for me, likely because I insist on deep striking them with Abaddon for teh fluff/awesome, and since we lost our teleport homers my luck with Deep Strike has been simply abysmal. It's disheartening enough that I've temporarily stopped trying to run them, and I'll reconsider them later. Perhaps I'll buy them a storm eagle some day, when I'm rich and successful.