Librarians

[Demoulius]

Hello all!!

 

Ive been using Librarians for a good while (since the current codex came out infact <_< ) and in the process of using them ive tried a few different things but quikly settled for Unleash Rage and Shield Of Sanguinius. Now 6th edition has somewhat taken a piss on the preffered enemy rule (if you can forgive the phrase...) ive taken a look at the rulebook and settled for divination with precience as main power basicly disregarding whatever 2nd power ive ever rolled B) (Epistolary upgrade is far to expensive on a power armour no invul save liby... and there are no rulebook powers you can use in your opponents turn!)

 

Rerolling hits always meant the Liby easily earned its points back. A chaplain could do the same thing but thats only on the charge and hes stuck with a powermaul :( Precience is very good, better even then UR but ive lost the ability to use a 2nd power, unless I take that Epistolary upgrade. On the flipside the Blood Angels rulebook has some other nifty powers like Sanguine Sword or Might of Heroes but again need Epistolary to be able to use both...

 

That said, id like to keep using the Liby (love the idea and utility of them, even if the Psychic hood is somewhat....useless compared to what it did before ;) ) but this time as a combat monster. Im asking here if thats wise...and even if its a plausible goal to achieve...

 

Now obviously a Liby isent as powerfull a combat character as a Captain unbuffed but buffed I can inmagine if they can give them a run for their money ;) Sanguine Sword alone is a terrifying prospect I inmagine making the Liby hit at S10. Im not to sure what to take for the 2nd power though and since its a Blood Angel power.... Yea I cant take any of the rule book ones :D so what to take as secondary power in that case?

 

I have also considered taking Precience and either Smite (biomancy) or roll on the Telepathy table. Those seem to have some interesting powers as well! That way I wouldnt need to take the Epistolary power or keep my units close to the liby to benefit from anything :lol: he can benefit my army outside of close combat as well! But, id be stuck with a boring supportive HQ character which is exactly what im trying to shy away from :)

 

Thoughts on this?

[Drunken Angel]

That said, id like to keep using the Liby (love the idea and utility of them, even if the Psychic hood is somewhat....useless compared to what it did before -_- ) but this time as a combat monster. Im asking here if thats wise...and even if its a plausible goal to achieve...

 

Thoughts on this?

 

Its not wise and only partly achievable you never know what is on the other side of the table but here is a few guesses. Chaos super sorcerers who challenge and will kick your ass, Grey Knights enuff said there, Taudar death by migraine, Nids with Shadow in the Warp and they have combat to spare, Demons with 2++ invuns against psychic powers, Space wolves with a 24" staff that shutdowns on a 4+ and thats off the top of my head ;)

 

If you want combat buffs take our resident badass Mephiston and be done with it.

 

Other wise give the libby a force axe and go for Divination. If you get forewarning he is on a 4++ invun if you get precognition he re-rolls hits, wounds and re-rolls his own saving throws it makes him more durable and the axe means he ignores armour saves and hits at S5 or S6 depending on charge or not.

Unfortunately libby or epistolary will always be somewhat meh in combat. The nature of the beast is that he will never be a combat monster, not out of the box anyway not the way other codexes can make their psykers and the variety of counters out there. An epistolary is better able to use Divination but he is still a 2 wound model and rolling on powers is always a crap shoot shutdown can happen a lot. Chaos can take a bunch of nasty stuff and purchase a level 2 upgrades for half the cost of ours plus the guy can +1 his initative for 15 points.

I keep my libby as a support unit with prescience casting on a dirty big nasty gun like a demolisher cannon, mid game he then changes to buffing combat troops like Death Company. If I get forewarninng thats good too and scriers gaze can really help.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I ran my Librarian (jump pack) with Unleash Rage and the Sanguine Sword plus I upgraded him to an Epistolary. That was for fifth edition when Furious Charge was better with the +1I bonus. S10 can be very useful still... You just have to be more careful now.

 

G ;)

[Chaplain Admetus]

If you want a combat monster librarian you're probably best off with Mephy, much as it pains me to say. I use a librarian as the cheapest HQ and a force multiplier, focussing on taking 'stuff' with the points I save as a result. Not that this in any way, shape or form stops me from hurling him recklessly into combat with the rest of my assault marines.

[Kickrock]

So, if you roll Biomancy or Unleash Rage / Sword the Librarian can get pretty beastly. There is no denying this. The problem with this that he gets no Initiative bonus outside of Warp Seed (which is in Biomancy) which means that he will either be killed when he attacks by I4, or shut down anything with higher I. He can still perform great, but you need to pick your targets carefully. Go for shooty targets over melee targets. Go for troops over elites. And, most importantly, hide him in a squad of Assault Marines so that Sarg can eat the challange and he can rock face.

 

I still feel that unless you luck out and get Iron Arm / Warp Seed he's better with Prescience as a Force Multiplyer to another squad. So, we roll Mepheston instead. The librarian who was designed to wreck face in CC.

 

Oh... and regardless what you do Epistolary is required if you roll him in CC.

[Meatcaber]

Seems to me like the best set up for a combat (equipment wise) would be with TDA, PA & SS - even without powers he can still pack quite a punch (still need to choose your enemies wiseley, I would think). I've not tried the set up yet.

 

Unleash Rage isn't quite as good as Prescience as it only works during assault, but re-rolling ones to hit and to wound is still not bad. Coupled with Shield means you can use both powers instead of 'wasting' a power by taking Divination.

 

For the moment, though, I use my PA, Staff armed libby as a support character with no upgrades.

[Ushtarador]

I agree that the best option for a combat-libby is terminator armor and storm shield - then hope to roll the divination power which allows you to reroll all saves, and you can survive a lot :) but it's very expensive and based on luck, so I would not recommend it. But it's fun if it works!

[Demoulius]

My current Librarian has a jumppack and force axe. Utility is something they do well enough and by the sound of it the ONLY thing they should be doing... Terminator armor is the only way to give them an invunerable save (one of the divination powers aside I think...) and that somewhat breaks the idea behind that :P

 

Why GW made stormshields and artificer armor lost for BA characters is beyond me ;)

 

Anyway... A forcesword is pretty much out of the question for the power armoured librarian due to the high number of 2+ save hq's that are all over the place now :tu: so pretty much force axe is a given. Most hq's go before the Librarian as well (given his mediocre initiative of 4) so forceaxe with sanguine sword (or axe? ;) ) would be a good way to go.... If the bum would survive combat that is. And since it requires your opponent to fumble all of his attacks (or the player to make a great deal of 5+ FnP rolls...) I (like you guys) dont think a combat liby is a good option :P which is a damn shame....

 

Guess the liby is stuck at beeing a force multiplier?

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I know it's a lot of points but a Libby in TDA with a stormshield and force axe is starting to look quite appealing to me.

 

I think we kind of got the shaft - I'm sure it's been discussed... Dante and Astorath swinging last is bull hockey IMO. We've still got some really good stuff though so I'm not all that concerned. I'm sure though the new Marine codices (like CSM) will have access to AP2 melee weapons that strike at initiative. Oh well.

 

G

[DominicJ]

Even with plus three A/I/T/S a librarian is hardly a combat monster.

He's a pretty hefty guy no doubts, but thats a very unlikely situation, and he isnt going to school a deamon

[Chaplain Admetus]

I know it's a lot of points but a Libby in TDA with a stormshield and force axe is starting to look quite appealing to me.

 

I think we kind of got the shaft - I'm sure it's been discussed... Dante and Astorath swinging last is bull hockey IMO. We've still got some really good stuff though so I'm not all that concerned. I'm sure though the new Marine codices (like CSM) will have access to AP2 melee weapons that strike at initiative. Oh well.

 

G :D

 

We also have one, actually (technically 2 because of DC version) - Tycho's Dead Man's Hand was never errata-ed so its still just a c-c weapon that ignores armour saves outright and strikes at initiative. My problem is that on the whole BA characters are generally a tad lacklustre. I'd rather take the cheapest option available (either a captain or a librarian, the latter winning on the grounds of having a free force weapon and better utility) and just load up on cool things with my points. Mephy is good, but for the price of him over a regular jump pack librarian I can get 5 more scoring power armoured bodies, 2 special weapons, and a power fist, and still have spare points.

[Father Mapple]

Librarians can be combat monsters against troops. Don't expect them to be combat monsters against MCs or other ICs. But I've found that if you forget the added utility of Prescience lasting 2 player turns, and can be targeted against other units even in assault, then Unleash Rage is actually pretty good. Here's why:

 

On the charge against Marine Equivalents (MEQ) with a force sword, your Librarian is normally hitting on 3s, wounding on 3s (I'm assuming you have a priest nearby for +1 S, because we're blood angels and should be using our specialty units), and the enemies are not getting saves.

So this means normally his 4 attacks = 2.6 hits, 1.7 wounds.

If you reroll hits from Prescience, you get 3.5 hits, 2.3 wounds.

If you're rerolling just the 1s on hitting AND wounding with Unleash Rage, it's 3.3 hits and 2.7 wounds.

 

So for causing wounds on the charge, Unleash Rage is slightly better.

 

For not charging, but with sword against MEQ, you get something similar (say, on the 2nd round of combat):

Normally his 3 attacks hitting on 3s, wounding on 4s, with enemies not getting saves = .99 hits.

If you reroll hits from Prescience, you get 2.6 hits, 1.3 wounds.

If you reroll 1's to hit and wound, you get 2.5 hits, 1.6 wounds.

 

Now, if you were fighting something with a much higher WS, and you could only hit on 4s, it might change things a bit.

Charging (+1A and +1S) against a CPT in power armor (so 4T, 3+ armor, 4+ invul, WS6, 3W) and assuming the Librarian lived through the I5 attacks...

Normally he'd get 4 attacks, 2 hits, 1.32 wounds, .66 unsaved wounds.

Rerolls from Prescience he gets 3 hits, 1.98 wounds, .99 unsaved wounds.

Rerolling 1s to hit and wound, he'd get 2.64 hits, 2.19 wounds, 1.09 unsaved wounds.

 

The benefits the Librarian has through his powers and WS5 disappear the moment someone better than him comes up in close combat.

 

I hope this math about how the librarian's powers work in assault is helpful.

[appiah4]

Rerolling hits always meant the Liby easily earned its points back. A chaplain could do the same thing but thats only on the charge and hes stuck with a powermaul :cuss

 

This is not true, your argument is based on a wrong premise. Chaplain does the combat role better than Librarian.

[Kickrock]

Rerolling hits always meant the Liby easily earned its points back. A chaplain could do the same thing but thats only on the charge and hes stuck with a powermaul :lol:

 

This is not true, your argument is based on a wrong premise. Chaplain does the combat role better than Librarian.

 

There are entirely too many variables here to state that as a fact. If its a 1v1 fight it will depend on who gets the charge and if the Librarian get his ability off. If its against MEQ the Librarian will come out on top. If its against T5 or higher it will depend on if the Librarian took Sword. If its against a 4+ or worse then it goes back to what abilities and if they get the charge.

 

Otherwise, the Librarian is a better force multiplyer and can earn his points back easier than a Chaplain as he is not restricted to getting the charge. But that is not the origional topic of this thread. I believe it was about a Librarian's combat potential.

[appiah4]

Rerolling hits always meant the Liby easily earned its points back. A chaplain could do the same thing but thats only on the charge and hes stuck with a powermaul :wub:

 

This is not true, your argument is based on a wrong premise. Chaplain does the combat role better than Librarian.

 

There are entirely too many variables here to state that as a fact. If its a 1v1 fight it will depend on who gets the charge and if the Librarian get his ability off. If its against MEQ the Librarian will come out on top. If its against T5 or higher it will depend on if the Librarian took Sword. If its against a 4+ or worse then it goes back to what abilities and if they get the charge.

 

Otherwise, the Librarian is a better force multiplyer and can earn his points back easier than a Chaplain as he is not restricted to getting the charge. But that is not the origional topic of this thread. I believe it was about a Librarian's combat potential.

 

Since you really opened that box it's really not fair for you to shut it like this.

 

First of all, that the Librarian will come out on top vs MEQ is simply not true, a Chaplain can get a cheap power fist that will completely mitigate the shortcomings of the Power Maul when facing MEQ. With a Power Fist, the Chaplain is better against GEQ, MEG and TEQ in all circumstances. Mostly because the case for the Librarian coming on top is completely situational. Not only are his powers dependent on the roll of dice, they are also subject to enemy resistance and face it, psychic defense is now more than common especially with the Ally rules. The Chaplain with a Power Fist is a lot more reliable in a combat role while also buffing his unit significantly, whereas the Librarian is meh in combat and his buffs are not things you can depend on to carry the day.

 

I use both the Reclusiarch and the Librarian, but I would never use a Librarian to substitute a Reclusiarch. BA Librarians are good because they have Prescience.

[Kickrock]

Alright, I’m not trying to belittle the Chaplain or Reclushiarch, but to say that a Chaplain is downright better at combat then a Librarian is going too far. You have to consider EVERY FACTOR. Are you getting charged, did you charge, was there a priest in range, did you get your ability off, what powers you took, what are you fighting, and is it at the same point value? That’s the big one.

A 100 point Librarian (Compare Sword, Prescience, Might) vs 100 Point Chaplain

 

Against a Tactical Squad

On the Charge Getting Charged

Chaplain will (Rounding up) (Rounding down) Rounded up Rounded Down

• Hit 4 times (2/3 +reroll) Hit 3 times(2/3 +reroll) 2 hits 2 hit

• Wound 4 times (5/6) Wound 3 (5/6) 2 wounds 2 wound

• Kill 2 (2/3 to save) Kill 1 (2/3 to save) 1 kill 0 kills

 

Librarian w/ Might (avg 2)

(rounding up) (rounding down)

• Hit 4 times (2/3) Hit 4 times (2/3) 3 Hits 2 Hits

• Wound 2 (1/2) Wound 2 (1/2) 2 Wound 1 Wound

• Kill 2 (-) Kill 2 (-) 2 Kill 1 Kill

Sword

• Hit 2 (2/3) Hit 2 (2/3) 2 hits 2 Hits

• Wound 2 (5/6) Wound 1 (5/6) 2 Wounds 1 Wounds

• Kill 2 (-) Kill 1 (-) 2 Kills 1 Kill

Prescience

• Hit 4 (2/3 +reroll) Hit 3 (2/3 +reroll) 3 Hits 2 Hits

• Wound 2 (1/2) Wound 1 (1/2) 2 Wounds 1 Wound

• Kill 2 (-) Kill 1 (-) 2 Kill 1 Kill

No Ability got off

• Hit 2 (2/3) Hit 2 (2/3) 2 Hits 1 Hit

• Wound 1 (1/2) Wound 1 (1/2) 1 Wound 0 Wound

• Kill 1 Kill 1 1 Kill 0 kill

Since a majority of our enemies are MEQ, that’s ajust base. An Ork Nob on a Bike? That’s another good example. Something that we may struggle with! A T5 model with a 4+

 

A 100 point Librarian vs a 100 point Chaplain. Both get 4 attacks on the charge.

On the Charge Getting Charged

Chaplain will (Rounding up) (Rounding down) Rounded up Rounded Down

• Hit 4 times (2/3 +reroll) Hit 3 times(2/3 +reroll) 2 Hits (2/3) 2 hit

• Wound 3 times (2/3) Wound 2 (2/3) 2 Wounds 2 wound

• Kill 3 (-) Kill 2 (-) 2 Kill 2 kills

 

Librarian w/ Might (avg 2)

(rounding up) (rounding down)

• Hit 4 times (2/3) Hit 4 times (2/3) 3 Hits 2 Hits

• Wound 1 (1/4) Wound 1 (1/4) 1 Wound 0 Wound

• Kill 1 (-) Kill 1 (-) 1 Kill 0 Kill

Sword

• Hit 2 (2/3) Hit 2 (2/3) 2 hits 2 Hits

• Wound 2 (5/6) Wound 1 (5/6) 2 Wounds 2 Wounds

• Kill 2 (-) Kill 1 (-) 2 Kills 2 Kill

Prescience

• Hit 4 (2/3 +reroll) Hit 3 (2/3 +reroll) 3 Hits 2 Hits

• Wound 1 (1/4) Wound 0 (1/4) 1 Wounds 0 Wound

• Kill 1 (-) Kill 0 (-) 1 Kill 0 Kill

No Ability got off

• Hit 2 (2/3) Hit 2 (2/3) 2 Hits 1 Hit

• Wound 1 (1/4) Wound 0 (1/4) 1 Wound 0 Wound

• Kill 1 Kill 0 1 Kill 0 kill

So, as I said, at T5 a Chaplain can start to perform better. But its going to come down to did the librarian get the ability off, and what ability did he take? Are they equal in point value and war gear? What about fighting Eldar/Guard/Tau? Lots of T3 with a 4+? Chaplain has the advantage until abilities are activated.

To keep it fair, if you say “I will put a Power Fist on the Reclushiarch” then you have to compare him to something near equal in points. How about an Epistolary with a Force Axe? Oh many how many different types of abilities you give him to compare! My favorite would be Might / Sword, but… that’s without doing all the different Biomancy combinations. A Epistolary with Might / Sword and a Force Sword would still have a better effect then the Reclushairch most of the time.

And as for Psyker Defense, unless I’m mistaken all the defense you can take against a self cast ability is a Rune Weapon (Space Wolves), Eldars little trickery and Shadows of the Warp (Tyranid). But, unless I’m mistaken most everyone takes Imperial Guard as an ally for the Basilisks / Manticore and Flyers. Space Wolves are defiantly more common than the others, but I’ve really only seen Space Wolves take Space Wolves, and Blood Angels take Space Wolves.

 

Now let’s get into Force Multiplication. Are you running your Chaplain / Reclusiarch with your Death Company? If so, then he is going to be better, hands down. I’ll take rerolls on everything in assault on the charge vs rerolls only on hits! But if it’s going to be any other unit the Librarian is better. Why? Because ;

• The Librarians Buff doesn’t just affect assault, but also shooting. Increases the amount of damage you can put onto a target

• It can be used while in an ongoing assault as opposed to only the turn you assault.

• It can be used on any unit in range, not just the one you’re attached to.

 

Look, I’m not calling you out. I’m not saying that you’re dumb, or that Chaplains are bad. They have their place. They can perform amazing. But to start to say that a Chaplain can outperform a Librarian and that any way of looking at it is wrong is going a bit over board.

 

A Librarian can be a Combat Monster against the right targets, under the right circumstances. A Chaplain can be a combat monster against the right target. But regardless, a Librarian can make his points back through Force Multiplication easier than a Chaplain can (unless you’re playing a Death Company)

 

Also… I don’t know what TEQ, GEQ or MEG are… I know what MEQ is though! And I am proud of that fact! Wait, TEQ is Terminator Equipped? AH! I got another one! AP2 Force Axe.

Ok… I’m done… I feel like this is really getting off topic…

[Demoulius]

The reason I made the comparison between chaplain and Librarian is that ive used my Librarian for rerolls. Chaplain only does it on the charge and cant give rerolls to units he hasent joined, hence why I think the Librarian is better in that regard. If I wanted the powermaul (or forcemaul) theres nothing stopping me there either as a Libarian can take a staff with the same in game effect. Chaplains cant take swords, axes or spears though... (can librarians even take spears? not sure...)

That said the innate 4+ invul save on the Chaplain is something the Librarian can only counter when equipped with terminator armour, and then he needs a SS to pull it off. The chaplain on the other hand is free to take a bike or jump pack and still have his invunerable save.

The reason why I asked if I can make my liby a combat monster is because like every other player I face I want my HQ to break some faces. And im not just talking about my opponents avarage joes here im talking about other HQ's as well. Without an invunerable save ive found that they generally die before they get to hit back (to to poor initiative and lacklustre WS as well) and was hoping there was something ive missed that made him a viable option as a combat character.... Most people are always proud when their HQ's get into combat and dont hesitate a second to call out a challenge. Im stuck throwing sargeants into the fray however as I dont want my warlord getting his head chopped off before he even gets to hit back and die miserably because he has no option for a decent save...

One thing I have considered is giving him a bike. T5 offers some defence against S4 power weapon attacks but I dont think it does nearly enough to offset the lack of a invunerable save... 5+ FnP save only does so much to keep him on his feet

[Demoulius]

Reviving this thread somewhat as im still firmly on the search of having a Liby as my HQ, and I want to throw him into combats and come out on top! First of all im not going to adjust my current model with the force axe, I love how the model looks far to much for that. What I am considering is putting one in terminator armor.

Hitting on initiative is a thing the liby isent going to be doing against alot of hq's. likewise the majority of saves he will face will be 2+ and/or have a higher toughness then 4. so the axe is pretty much a given. Likewise T5 isent enough defence most of the time and relying on a 5+ FnP isent going to cut it in the majority of fights either so the 3++ from a SS is required.

Then what can the liby bring in a combat? Well a forceaxe imho isent enough. Yes your hitting at S5 AP2 (when not charging, then its S6 AP2) at WS5 with 2 attacks (3 on charge) so thats not really all that scary. So how can we make that alot more scary? Well, S10 would do the trick

Sanguine sword would allow the liby to be a threat to ANYTHING in the game really. AP2 from the forceaxe would cut through all forms of armor. So then since ive picked a rulebook power what would I take for a 2nd power? Ive thought about this and am considering fear of the darkness. Ive failed enough LD10 LD tests to know that an addident lies in a small corner. Couple that with the fact that the LD gets lowered by 2 and that often people have a unit in their back field holding an objective. All it takes is one "unfortunate" LD test to see them fleeing from the field I still get a bit of utulity from my Liby AND he gets to kick arse in combat just contemplating if I should take an Epistolary upgrade or not. Against some MC's it might be worthwhile to have the lvl2 if I want to force weapon a particulary nasty target

Ive got a unit of close combat termies that im working on, would this make a good "chopy" HQ? :)

[Baba Lem]

As choppy as two attacks get, three on the charge. There are two approaches to a librarian, cheap as supporter. Or Mephiston. Thinking of your load out, in a squad of Terminators, I'd still prefer rerolls to choppy powers, such as Sanguine Sword or Might of Heroes. Terminator units bring down big targets. Not the libby. The choppiest it gets is Epistolary with Sword and Heroes, but really - that's only fifty points away from Mephiston.

[Squirrelloid]

If you want to use a librarian as a combat monster, terminator armor, force axe, storm shield really seems the way to go.  I'd still stick with codex powers probably. 

 

Might of Heroes seems viable if you're trying to build a combat monster.  Sanguine Sword is perhaps better served with a Force Sword instead of a Force Axe.  (Of course, without Epistolary, remember that you can't actually use your force weapon as a force weapon if you use a power that combat). 

 

For an outside combat power, I'm not convinced Shield of Sanguinius is a no-brainer - it really depends on your force composition.  But if you're trying to deliver a Terminator Librarian into close combat, that probably means Stormraven or Land Raider.  LR implies mechanized, so you can gain your cover save some other way (say rhinos or predators shielding your approach, who could pop smoke themselves).  Stormraven obviously needs no help gaining a cover save to make its delivery.  Since you've eschewed a shooting weapon, Fear of the Darkness or Blood Lance seem like strong contenders.  The alternative to vehicular delivery is of course Wings of Sanguinius, but that doesn't seem like an efficient use of your power for the turn.

 

The real question you have to ask yourself is: If your goal is to be killy in close combat, is giving up +1 WS, +1 A, and +1 W just to get 1 psychic power/turn really the best way to do this?  @140pts a Terminator Captain has 2+/4++ with a power weapon and a storm bolter.  (It takes another 35 pts to get up to TH/SS, and i'm not convinced the 1 improvement in invulnerable save is *that* exciting, although a pf instead of a pw might be worthwhile).

 

A terminator librarian costs a minimum of 125pts, 145 with the stormshield.  But you've traded melee and shooting performance for a psychic power.  To make it really worthwhile, you need to go up to epistolary, and that costs a bucket of points.  And if you're just going to go with a BGB psychic power, why not just bring along a DA Librarian as an ally.  You only need the one power if you're not going to go for epistolary, and the DA librarian clocks in 35 points cheaper for the base chassis.

[Demoulius]

Well, to put it plainly; I play more for fun then to win. I like the idea of a librarian running around and kicking whilst throwing around bolts of lightning etc etc. I can understand easily that it wont work like that on the tabletop but the terminator liby can do a few things a terminator captain cant. For starters with S10 he can instant kill T5 characters. Might not seem like much but ive got an opponent whom I fight regulary who uses Typhus, ork warbosses and Necron lords. Ker-splatting his uber lord that he so fondly ploughs through my forces with is something id be pretty keen to return the favour on

Mind part of this thinking goes back to 5th, where the liby also prevented a hood against psychic powers (which back then was a great deal more effective ) while that part isent in the game anymore (in the same way mind...) I still find Librarians the most bad ass HQ's we got :) not the most effective ones on the tabletop sadly...

Guess im trying to have my cake and eat it to librarian as I use him now (force multiplier) works extremly well but I feel hes just there to give a unit the reroll, which is kinda boring. Hes also not hard to take out in combat (hence other people generally take the challenges for him) so thats why im trying to get a combat liby!

My lists also lack a pure hammer unit which im currently solving with a unit of close combat termies. Seeing as the only good way to get a liby to survive combat somewhat reliably is through termi armour I guess I saw my chance.

Conclusion: Its part hurt pride, part trying to spice up my games and part opportunity! I see people throwing their HQ's at the thickest of the fighting and I want a piece of the action

[Squirrelloid]

Play chaos? xP  At least I assume they can have their sorceror warlord cake with melee monster icing.

[BAHERSH]

I'm in consensus with a lot of the posts above. A Captain is probably the best combat master HQ (non-special character) the codex has to offer. Followed closely by Reclusiarchs. Even with termie armor or a bike/ FnP, he just won't outperform the other characters with the same loadouts. 

 

With that said, combat mastery is not really his role and doubtfully ever will be. I still think Shield of Sang / unleash rage or Sang Sword are the best ways to go. A Librarian and Sang Preist really makes a somewhat  meh AM unit into a pretty resilient and powerful force, and this is where I think he will always fit best. 

 

But do not be too sad. We have freaking flying dreadnaught librarians and Mephiston... If you want a CC librarian beast, nuff said.

[BloodTzar]

Well didn't play much in 6th, however i am getting back on track.

Last game I have decided to get my TDA/SS+PA (TDA Mephy from space hulk) lib a codex powers, namely; Might,Rage.

As he is walking the board with a TH/SS+LC termies and corbie, he didn't need shield. I can say, I was impressed by rage over the primaris divination, as rage can be casted in enemy turn as well, therefore I did cast Might in mine (libby was out of challange+FC axe made him S7) wich gave my some nice attack boosts, and while I lost all the bonus attacks in enemy turn, I did cast the rage.

This squad massacred SM vulkan boys (termies+vulkan him self) plus some crap

[Xenith]

I was impressed by rage over the primaris divination, as rage can be casted in enemy turn as well,

 

Rage can be cast in the opponents turn, yes, but prescience lasts for both you and your opponent's turn anyway.

 

Rage is possibly more useful for TH/SS when you absolutely need something to die as you reroll 1's to wound, but in my book, prescience wins everytime, because 1 cast works for 2 turns, and in shooting also. Probably overwatch too.