Caestus Assault Ram

[Drunken Angel]

I reconsidered the Assault Ram I want one !

 

Qualification required please on the points raised

 

I am taking all this info of the old PDF so read it with a grain of salt please till confirmed by someone with the Imperial Armour.

 

I looked up searchy for the assault ram threads they dont quite address my questions. While there is the forge world thread and various discussions touching on the Caestus Assault Ram I want to put the use and tactics of the thing under discussion.

 

First please leave the is it cheesy or not behind take it as legal and its on the table in 6th. I consider the fortress of redemption as total validation for bringing Assault Rams to the table :rolleyes:

 

I absolutely accept people can decline to play against it and claim its broken thats fine I want to move past that and get to its tactics and use.

 

If ever a thing begged for the Caestus on the board its bloody fortifications in 6th. I know you can melta them to hell I have plenty of that I want fast.

 

I have a fast army it is all Baals, Razors, Stormravens, Attack Bikes, Vindicators and jump troops. I wanted to get a Land Raider but thought too slow so .... why not a Caestus Assault Ram ? Does the same thing but faster and I want to crash one into bunkers its what it was built for

 

I dont have the Aeronautica Imperialis handy I do know we Blood Angels can use it under which FOC and is it at 235 points still

 

It comes standard with extra armour and ceramite plating, a nasty large melta template. It can move 36 inches which pretty much auto pens anything.

 

Do fortifications get the tank +1 special rule on the impact when rammed? if not that brings the Caestus and an AV14 fortification onto level points of AP when calculating impact damage. The caestus however gets to pick the highest of 2 dice for determining armour pen and gets plus 1 on the damage table.

When the smoke clears it still gets a 5+ invun against any attacks including ramming on its front armour and has the jink special rule allowing a 5+ or even 4+ cover save.

 

It can carry 10 of anything in power armour, artificer armour or terminator armour and at 245 points they can assault out of it if it moved in hover. BA could still get out with skies of blood though.

The CAR cant shoot other fliers or ram them it does not have the weapons load out but you cant have everything can you?

 

Where and at what points would a CAR fit in I am thinking I could easily drop one Stormraven at 1750 and take the CAR instead. Below 1750 at say 1500 I would have to think hard but on its own it could still be useful. At higher point games 1850 with fortifications around I would like to take one for laughs if nothing else. I really dont think its that competitive optimised its more a fun thing and way better than banging away at a fortress all game thats for sure.

 

Edit to add I found its entry it is a flying tank, the only flyer allowed to ram things in the game with the following profile: Fl, H, Tk, T

Vehicle Types: Flyer=Fl, Hover=H, Tank=Tk, Transport=T

 

It follows that this vehicle could slam into troops as a flyer, force morale checks and generally wreck mayhem on a tankshock/ram move. Death or glory can only be carried out if morale is passed and is resolved on front armour. Apart from a power fist this flyer does not fear assaults. Can it even be assaulted ? is another question. Flyers can't be assaulted but the CAR can tank shock. It may reveal rear armour on the way past troops when trashing something else but those that shoot at it do with snapshots on AV11 after it has hit whatever you aimed it at next turn. Skyfire interceptor may hurt it but its taking that 5+ or a 4+ no matter what. Night fighting crons will rue turning day into night which works to improve its save in the 24-36 inch area. In theory stealth and shrouded plus its normal save give it a 2+ or 3+ cover, the CAR don't care about shooting it is an AV 13 bullet.

[ianj253]

Pretty sure the new one doesn't have ceramite plating

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I think it does plus it's an AV13 flyer... Pretty hot stuff for sure.

 

G :)

[Res Ipsa Loquitur]

It isn't 235pts any more (Stormraven and a Scout Squad pointswise) and Ceramite Plating is an upgrade. It's a FA choice for Blood Angels and its AV13/13/11 with 3HP.

 

For the price, it's pretty underwhelming, IMO.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

It depends on what you put inside... It can carry ten terminators plus it has some bonuses for ramming. It can also fire a melta blast... Albeit short ranged. I prefer the Storm Eagle but I think the CAR is a very unique model.

 

G ^_^

[Res Ipsa Loquitur]

I don't think the Transport Capacity is a big deal in its favour, really. Ten Terminators and the CAR (with CP) is between 695 and 745pts, depending on Termi loadout. More if you attach an IC. That's over to well-over a third of your army that won't show until T2 (and might not show until T4, no DoA for Reserved Transports) and even with AV13 risks getting blown out of the sky the turn it arrives and giving all your dudesmen a S10 hit with only a 5++.

 

It's not really viable to carry more than five Terminators, is what I'm saying.

[Zedrenael]

I do not have my BRB in front of me, but I am pretty sure you only benefit from Stealth or otherwise Shrouded in nightfight. You do not get both I will quote as soon as I can.

[Drunken Angel]

Cover saves from stealth and shrouded are cumulative to a maximum of 2+

 

First turn night fighting a bike going flat (handy for attack bikes this) out that finishes its turn 24 to 36 inches from the closest gun would take a 2+ save from that gun would it not ?

 

Shrouded (24 to 36 inches away) counts its cover saves as 2 points better than normal, normal that turn being 4+ from the speed. Stealth (12 to 24 inches) counts saves as 1 point better. Even a gun shooting at 12 -24 range with night fighting in place would be subject to stealth your cover would still be 3+ if you went flat out last turn.

 

A flyer such as the CAR would also have the jink special rule. It goes flat out then gets shot at, a six is rolled to hit or a skyfire roll to hit is made depending on the distance from the gun (24-36 inches) if night fighting is in place the flyer may take up to a 2+ save with jink. Okay night fighting is first turn on a 4+ 50% of the time it will be delayed though, the CAR is not even on the board T1 and Necrons can manipulate night fighting. But it is an option to consider on that 4+ roll.

 

I will take correction here but thats how it works doesn't it? Anyway even without the night fighting rule say the CAR has travelled in zoom 18 to 24 inches or even say 30 plus inches. It smashes into something destroys it and gets its jink save for the next turn which would be a 4+ ? Thats better then the 5++ invun on the front armour is it not? It won't be shooting next turn anyway its off to batter something else.

 

Just thinking out loud here, I wont go into the logic of a flying tank that flies 20-30 inches smashes through perhaps 2 squads forces morale checks on them then buries its prow into the land raider they were standing in front of, blowing it to bits. Next turn the Caestus Ram richochettes off across the board to smash into something else ... hmm I like that image :eek

 

This thing appears to be able to destroy meat shields without taking return attacks, can a power fist even hurt it ? technically its a zooming flyer that just tank shocked you but you cant assault it back with death or glory.

 

Death or glory automatically hits from assault but zooming flyers cannot be assaulted. Shooting attacks also autohit, that appears to bypass the snapfire rule but the Ram still takes the hit on the front armour and has a 5++ invun

 

This certainly is a rare and precious flower. Perhaps best used as a Ram only. Dont put anything in it just spend the game crashing into stuff and forcing morale checks. Most meat shields that you tank shock on the way to the target don't have high strength shooting, except guard but their morale is crap anyway. A melta (you took ceramite armour right?) needs a five to glance a six to pen on the table and then there is that 5++. Pretty much all Death or Glory will give you is a glance or possibly a pen from one models shooting if they took a melta. As I read it you cant assault with Death or Glory so GK will hate this bloody thing smashing into them they dont have melta and are Ld 8 or 9, same for space wolves and guardmen although they may have one plasma or melta hit rolling on 5s ot 6s.

[knife&fork]

Regarding tank shocks;

 

Remember that only a model in the direct path of the vehicle can perform death or glory. It's usually quite easy to avoid the dangerous stuff in a unit if you want to.

[mmaarrkk]

The CAR can ram other fliers, its the only thing that can. It is 275 pts with upgrades of cermatie plating for 20pts frag launchers 10pts or teleport homer for 15pts. The magna melta is large blast with a 18inch range so the problem with that is once you have got within 9inchs of double d6 pen range you wont be able to fire it the next turn on targets within that area, if its a fortifcation then it will probably be at the back or middle of opponents deployment so you will probably have to go off the board the next turn.

 

The firefury is 3inch blast str 6 ap4 but only one use, It is av13 front and side but only 11 on the rear with 3 HP's.

[Morollan]

A flyer such as the CAR would also have the jink special rule.

 

Only when it evades. Page 81

 

An evading Flyer has the Jink special rule, but only fires Snap Shots

[Gumo9]

The CAR can ram other fliers, its the only thing that can.

 

Unfortunately flyers cannot be tank shocked or rammed (BRB page 80) but presumably the CAR can ram other non-flyer vehicles. The CAR also cannot fire at other flyers becase it's weapons are "large blast" and "blast" which cannot cannot hit flyers in zoom mode (BRB page 81). I was so looking forward to buying the model until I looked at the rules a bit closer. For me, this does not really make the Caestsus worth fielding :)

 

G

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Go for the Storm Eagle.

 

G :cry:

[Gumo9]

Alas our Blood Angels cannot take a Storm Eagle but I intend to get one for my Wolves. I like the model and the rules are pretty cool, although expensive in terms of points.

 

G

[Drunken Angel]

Too late, its ordered. I will paint it then use it to crash into things it never needs to roll to hit on ram, premeasure means I can determine the impact energy.

I will use it for laughs the CAR will pulp dreads and armour in zoom mode as vehicles/walkers cannot perform death or glory and cannot assault it next turn either. I will just richochette it around the board in zoom mode. Wont even bother to put anything in it.

[Ushtarador]

The stormraven is certainly better, but especially for friendly games the caestus is an awesome alternative and a lot of fun in it's own way :) I think it's a cool model that fits the BA theme well (SMASH THINGS).

[Azatoth]

How exactly do you tank shock without being a tank?

[Drunken Angel]

How exactly do you tank shock without being a tank?

 

When you are a flying tank

 

 

Edit to add I found the Assault Rams entry it is a flying tank, the only flyer allowed to ram things in the game with the following profile: Fl, H, Tk, T

Vehicle Types: Flyer=Fl, Hover=H, Tank=Tk, Transport=T

 

I its a rare and precious flower from the Emprah

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I like the Storm Eagle better... More guns including the Vengeance Launcher and a larger capacity for power armor. I've used for my Khorne army and it works very well. The Storm Raven is really good too and generally less points total as you load them up with options.

[Nightmare84]

Cast invisibility on a assault ram. Just plain mean.

[benjak]

Am I missing something? I thought the Ram was off-limits to BA?

[Gumo9]

The new Aeronautica book allows BA's to take the Caestus now (but not the Storm Eagle).

 

G

[benjak]

The new Aeronautica book allows BA's to take the Caestus now (but not the Storm Eagle).

 

G

 

Woah! Off to forgeworld then :rolleyes: