ATSKNF

[alex567]

Not what I was talking about. You do not add the 3" consolidate movement to the models usual 6" movement. And you do not complete the "whole 9"" movement of a model before moving on to the next model.

- Per pg.31, immediately after a success rally, the unit may move up to 3" which is not slowed by Difficult Terrain. And regardless of the actual distance moved, now "counts as" having moved.

- Per pg.33, a unit with ATSKNF can Move, Shoot, and Assault normally after Regrouping(in addition to the 3" Regroup movement). This movement would not ignore Difficult Terrain.

 

The up to 3" Regroup Movement is clearly seperate from the ATSKNF Movement, by virtue both of being sperate rules in seperate sections of the book and by virtue of having different effects in relationship to such things as Difficult Terrain. It is, by the rules, to be completed seperately for the unit and first before doing anything else, and has different rules than a normal (or ATSKNF) Movement. The whole unit must complete its Regroup Movement before any model can begins its ATSKNF Movement.

So the problem becomes:

- Either ATSKNF ignores the "counts as Moving" of the Regroup, in which case During the ATSKNF Movement you are free to declare any models as Stationary, thus firing Heavy Weapons at full BS.

- or, ATSKNF does not ignore the "counts as Moving", in which case the unit may not move more than the Regroup 3" because you can not move a unit twice in a player turn (BRB, Pg.10) and after completing the 3" Regroup movement they now "count as having Moved" when it comes time to do the ATSKNF Movement.

 

Show me where it sais you cannot move twice in the movement phase? It sais that you must complete the whole units move before moving onto the next unit, you cannot go back and remove a unit. You have NOT completed the units move, after moving the 3", the 3" is the start of the move, and the other 6" is the rest of the move, as such you move the 3", then you can complete the models move as you normally would do, but so far, you have still moved, so when you move onto the second move of 6" you have infact moved that turn and cannot declare yourself stationary, it is not two seperate moves it is one move using two different movements. page 10 referes to the model COMPLETING its movement, the 3" regrouo MOVE is still a movement. you do not, move, finish move, move again, you move, 3" then continue your movement for the next 6" following all the rules you normally would do.

 

- or, ATSKNF does not ignore the "counts as Moving", in which case the unit may not move more than the Regroup 3" because you can not move a unit twice in a player turn (BRB, Pg.10) and after completing the 3" Regroup movement they now "count as having Moved" when it comes time to do the ATSKNF Movement.

 

No where does it say you cannot move twice, only that you must complete a units move before moving to the next. I move my tactical squad 3" I have finished its regroup move BUT I have not finished its MOVE, so I am free to continue moving, the movement has not ended, either way I am not making to moves, just several move actions.

[dswanick]

I can't wait for the forums to get fully fixed...

[Storm Dragons 3rd Company]

I posted here this morning; I know I did.  But now I can't see my post.  Can anyone else see it.  Sorry for the interrupt.

[ChaosRising]

Storm,

 

I can only think of 3 things

 

1) [Least likely] You wrote the post, went away from the site for too long, and the site timed out on you and your reply vanished before it could be posted on the board.

 

2) A mod deleted it

 

3) Site bugged out and failed to load it. I just tried answering your post a minute ago and it failed to load my answer, so I am considering this to be the most likely scenario.

 

Regards,

 

CR

[Raeven]

I posted here this morning; I know I did.  But now I can't see my post.  Can anyone else see it.  Sorry for the interrupt.

Yea, I lost a post too.

 

Can we get rid of the blue text please?  Impossible to read.

[Storm Dragons 3rd Company]

Since my post stayed gone, I'll recap what I said this morning when I revived this thread.  My digging it up was caused by events last Saturday wherein a dev squad broke, auto-rallied, the heavy weapon guys didn't move any consolidation, and then the question arose as to whether or not they could fire at normal BS.

 

This turns on the definition of "normally" as in what does it mean when it says ATSKNF can shoot normally.

 

Interpretation 1:  ATSKNF comes into play after the regroup ergo after the consolidation movement and since it says the models can shoot normally, then they can, including heavy weapons.  So you'd move your consolidation and still get to fire as if you had not moved.  This has a problem with the fact that it makes no sense that the marines, if recovering from panic, can do something they can't when level headed.  It also causes a problem because this heavy weapon CLEARLY moved in the movement phase (consolidation is in the movement phase), yet ATSKNF also says that after regrouping, marines shoot "normally."  If normally means that the previous movement effects are negated, then this is how this rule should work.

 

Interpretation 2:  The effects of regrouping are to become counted as having moved.  Nothing in ATSKNF says they don't count as having moved.  The heavy weapons shoot normally for heavy weapons that moved.  This runs afoul of the word normally in that one has to ask what shooting normally means if it means you still snap fire.  The answer actually lies in the Regrouping section of p. 31 and in the Snap Shots section of p. 13.  When a unit regroups: TWO things result as far as shooting.  It counts as having moved AND all shots are snap shots (p.38).  This is normal for a heavy weapon, but not for rapid fire or assault weapons.  However, after a regroup, rapid fire, assault, and everything else snap shoot.  What does that mean?  Snap shots are shots made at BS1 (p. 13).  Thus, after regrouping, everyone by virtue of having broken previously fires snap shots.  This is not because they moved, but because the regroup rule says everyone gets BS1 automatically.  However, ATSKNF says they shoot normally which means they get to shoot with their normal BS ability subject to other rules.  For example, if a regrouping ATSKNF unit were to then shoot metlaguns at a flyer zooming by, it still snap fires even though it gets to shoot "normally."  This is because the snap fire is being caused by a different combination of rules (specifically hard-to-hit in this case).  The normal shot they have against a zooming flyer is still a snap shot.  Likewise, shooting any heavy weapon after regrouping.  For the heavy weapon, the BS of 1 caused directly by the regroup rule is negated by ATSKNF, however, nothing in ATSKNF says the unit stops counting as having moved.  And a heavy weapon that moved normally shoots a snap shot, thus that is what happens here.