Onisuzume Posted May 20, 2013 Share Posted May 20, 2013 If Krueger Eversors can be loyal, so can Sevatar. Eversors are kept in (cryogenic) stasis between missions and get mission perimeters inserted into their brains while already being dropped onto the planet, stasis-pod and all. Quite a difference from the GK if you ask me. im sorry but wasnt there a story about the GKS bathing in blood of saints or something like that sounds something like a NL That single paragraph everyone likes to ignore, you mean? IMHO, 40k would be boring with the emperor revived, it wouldnt be the same without the primarchs...thats sort of the point At least the Lion is confirmed (by word of god) to be still alive. That's one loyalist primarch. The rest are either dead (Guilliman, Manus, Sanguinius, Dorn), traitor, or unknown if they're still alive (Russ, Khan, Vulcan, Corax). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/268965-lost-legions-and-emperors-return-hh-speculation/page/3/#findComment-3375603 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted May 20, 2013 Share Posted May 20, 2013 Technically Guilliman is in stasis so technically it's "dying". Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/268965-lost-legions-and-emperors-return-hh-speculation/page/3/#findComment-3375729 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted May 20, 2013 Share Posted May 20, 2013 Grab the tin foil, gentlemen. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/268965-lost-legions-and-emperors-return-hh-speculation/page/3/#findComment-3375737 Share on other sites More sharing options...
GhostMalone Posted May 20, 2013 Share Posted May 20, 2013 And I highly doubt they will return soon, if they did I think we would all be in for a apocalyptic cataclysm. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/268965-lost-legions-and-emperors-return-hh-speculation/page/3/#findComment-3376064 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted May 20, 2013 Share Posted May 20, 2013 Yep. 40K is a setting, not a narrative. All attempts to advance the timeline have since been retconned, even the Ciaphas Cain series. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/268965-lost-legions-and-emperors-return-hh-speculation/page/3/#findComment-3376125 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legionator Posted May 20, 2013 Share Posted May 20, 2013 If Krueger Eversors can be loyal, so can Sevatar. Eversors are kept in (cryogenic) stasis between missions and get mission perimeters inserted into their brains while already being dropped onto the planet, stasis-pod and all. Quite a difference from the GK if you ask me. >im sorry but wasnt there a story about the GKS bathing in blood of saints or something like that sounds something like a NL That single paragraph everyone likes to ignore, you mean? IMHO, 40k would be boring with the emperor revived, it wouldnt be the same without the primarchs...thats sort of the point At least the Lion is confirmed (by word of god) to be still alive. That's one loyalist primarch. The rest are either dead (Guilliman, Manus, Sanguinius, Dorn), traitor, or unknown if they're still alive (Russ, Khan, Vulcan, Corax). Was't Dorn's death retconned? He was lost aboard the Sword of Sacrilege and only his one hand was found. He could be alive as well. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/268965-lost-legions-and-emperors-return-hh-speculation/page/3/#findComment-3376153 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted May 20, 2013 Share Posted May 20, 2013 Where was his death retconned? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/268965-lost-legions-and-emperors-return-hh-speculation/page/3/#findComment-3376168 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legionator Posted May 20, 2013 Share Posted May 20, 2013 Where was his death retconned? It is written in WH40K wiki, however there is no concrete reference. Is there any other source you read something like that? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/268965-lost-legions-and-emperors-return-hh-speculation/page/3/#findComment-3376180 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Tyler Posted May 20, 2013 Share Posted May 20, 2013 There has only ever been one mention of the possibility of him still being alive, and that was speculative in nature. Every other mention of Dorn's fate has been that he is dead, including the Index Astartes article that everyone mis-reads. The more recent mentions of Dorn have explicitly stated that he is dead. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/268965-lost-legions-and-emperors-return-hh-speculation/page/3/#findComment-3376187 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted May 21, 2013 Share Posted May 21, 2013 Yeah 40K wiki is......... I give the guys props but there are a lot of discrepancies in more than a few of their pages and I don't hold it against them personally. Like for example, they have(maybe "had" by now) the anathame as a weapon of Nurgle. Personally, I have never heard that before an they don't have a source for it. They had Cyrion as a champion of Tzeentch when Cyrion was mutated by Slaanesh and wasn't even a servant of Slaanesh, much less a champion. And for a while, they had a bit of fanfic fluff(it was added before the current admins and mods were in charge of the site) about the Dragon Warriors being a former Salamanders company that became aligned to Khorne. Like I said, I don't hold against them that a lot of fanfluff makes it on their website. What I usually do is try to cross-reference between the books I have, 40k wiki and Lexicanum. If there is no source cited, I don't use it. If there is a source cited but I don't have it, I usually say something like "the source cited was this but I cannot confirm or deny the accuracy of it". But I think that's enough off-topic. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/268965-lost-legions-and-emperors-return-hh-speculation/page/3/#findComment-3376215 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vesper Posted May 21, 2013 Share Posted May 21, 2013 Where was his death retconned? It is written in WH40K wiki, however there is no concrete reference. Is there any other source you read something like that? THAT THING AGAIN OH GOD PLEASE. That piece of sluff never existed. Never ever. It's just the contribution of a random retard who found it would be superawesome if he ressurected a Primarch. But that's fake. Just like the IH recovering the magical hammer of their Primarch from Perturabo's hands. Fake all over the place. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/268965-lost-legions-and-emperors-return-hh-speculation/page/3/#findComment-3376247 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legionator Posted May 21, 2013 Share Posted May 21, 2013 "DORN LIVES, DORN LIVES, DORN LIVES!" - a captured Imperial Fists apothecary, in Fabius Bile's laboratory OK Dorn is dead, but Dorn's fate has always seem like an injustice to me. Other primarchs either went to a vacation in EoT or died heroically. The Emperor's Champion shouldn't have died in a god damn Chaos ship. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/268965-lost-legions-and-emperors-return-hh-speculation/page/3/#findComment-3376434 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Tyler Posted May 21, 2013 Share Posted May 21, 2013 Dying in battle facing the teeming masses of Chaos, sacrificing himself (and his compatriots) to stop a black crusade (and save the lives of millions) isn't a heroic death? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/268965-lost-legions-and-emperors-return-hh-speculation/page/3/#findComment-3376459 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legionator Posted May 21, 2013 Share Posted May 21, 2013 Dying in battle facing the teeming masses of Chaos, sacrificing himself (and his compatriots) to stop a black crusade (and save the lives of millions) isn't a heroic death? Comparing to Sanguinius, no. It is not so heroic. At least he should have been killed by a daemon primarch or he should have been killed while destroying an enemy ship like Planetkiller, not by generic CSMs in a generic CSM ship. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/268965-lost-legions-and-emperors-return-hh-speculation/page/3/#findComment-3376463 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Tyler Posted May 21, 2013 Share Posted May 21, 2013 How do you know it was "generic" Chaos Space Marines? All we know is that it was a nascent black crusade. The gifts of Chaos may elevate a "normal" Chaos Space Marine to near-Primarch levels, or even to daemon prince levels (which are roughly equivalent to a Primarch). And how do you know that one of the daemon Primarchs wasn't present? Very little is known about the actual events, so it's unwise to assume that it was just a bunch of cannon fodder that took Dorn down. Even then, quantity has a quality all its own and even a Primarch may be taken down by enough "generic" Chaos Space Marines without the death being any less heroic. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/268965-lost-legions-and-emperors-return-hh-speculation/page/3/#findComment-3376529 Share on other sites More sharing options...
calgar101 Posted May 21, 2013 Share Posted May 21, 2013 5th edition Space Marine codex states Dorn is dead. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/268965-lost-legions-and-emperors-return-hh-speculation/page/3/#findComment-3376545 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vesper Posted May 21, 2013 Share Posted May 21, 2013 Yeah, we still know really few about what happened aboard the Sword of Sacriledge and how Dorn died. According to Curze's vision, he was surrounded by Chaos Marines. Stil better than fleeing like some loyalists did. But there will be a book on it, no doubt about it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/268965-lost-legions-and-emperors-return-hh-speculation/page/3/#findComment-3376579 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade Garrett Posted May 21, 2013 Share Posted May 21, 2013 Dorn defending the Imperium to the his last breath is, in my opinion, a better end than Russ and Corax heading out to grab some smokes and dropping off the face of the galaxy for the next ten thousand years. Thanks guys. Humanity will just continue its decline and fall while you make your beer run. Feel free to visit if you're ever in the neighborhood. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/268965-lost-legions-and-emperors-return-hh-speculation/page/3/#findComment-3376757 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legionator Posted May 21, 2013 Share Posted May 21, 2013 Dorn defending the Imperium to the his last breath is, in my opinion, a better end than Russ and Corax heading out to grab some smokes and dropping off the face of the galaxy for the next ten thousand years. Thanks guys. Humanity will just continue its decline and fall while you make your beer run. Feel free to visit if you're ever in the neighborhood. At least their chapters have the hope of "our father will return someday". We are just orphans Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/268965-lost-legions-and-emperors-return-hh-speculation/page/3/#findComment-3376785 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onisuzume Posted May 21, 2013 Share Posted May 21, 2013 Dorn defending the Imperium to the his last breath is, in my opinion, a better end than Russ and Corax heading out to grab some smokes and dropping off the face of the galaxy for the next ten thousand years. Thanks guys. Humanity will just continue its decline and fall while you make your beer run. Feel free to visit if you're ever in the neighborhood. Or Khan for that matter, charging off into some webway portal never to be seen or heard of again.Technically Guilliman is in stasis so technically it's "dying".And some (in-universe) rumours have him as slowly healing. Never going to happen and he'll be dead when they turn off that stasis cell/shrine.Was't Dorn's death retconned? He was lost aboard the Sword of Sacrilege and only his one hand was found. He could be alive as well.Wasn't it mentioned in that novel "Space Marine" by Ian Watson that had his entire body recovered, with his skeleton (sans hands) kept in a piece of amber shaped after him? And his two hands kept in individual stasis shrines? The only unclear part about Dorn's death is when it happened. The Sword of Sacrilege is supposed to be a Despoiler Class, which wasn't designed until M36, when Index Astartes II states he died shortly after Corax disappeared. So either he died shortly after Corax disappeared leaving the ship class as incorrect, or Dorn did lead his chapter for several millenia after the HH and leaves Index Astartes II incorrect about when he died. So our best/only hope on that matter is with BL finishing that HH series (and hopefully also detailing a bit of the Scouring). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/268965-lost-legions-and-emperors-return-hh-speculation/page/3/#findComment-3376831 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade Garrett Posted May 21, 2013 Share Posted May 21, 2013 At least their chapters have the hope of "our father will return someday". We are just orphans :cry: That sound you hear is members of the X and VIII Legion playing traditional Medusan and Nostromoan mourning songs on teensy tiny violins. Just for you. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/268965-lost-legions-and-emperors-return-hh-speculation/page/3/#findComment-3376865 Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheForgottenAngel Posted May 21, 2013 Share Posted May 21, 2013 Don't worry Son of Dorn, The Lion essentially carved his initials into Curze's chest! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/268965-lost-legions-and-emperors-return-hh-speculation/page/3/#findComment-3376886 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legionator Posted May 21, 2013 Share Posted May 21, 2013 Wasn't it mentioned in that novel "Space Marine" by Ian Watson that had his entire body recovered, with his skeleton (sans hands) kept in a piece of amber shaped after him? And his two hands kept in individual stasis shrines? The only unclear part about Dorn's death is when it happened. The Sword of Sacrilege is supposed to be a Despoiler Class, which wasn't designed until M36, when Index Astartes II states he died shortly after Corax disappeared. So either he died shortly after Corax disappeared leaving the ship class as incorrect, or Dorn did lead his chapter for several millenia after the HH and leaves Index Astartes II incorrect about when he died. So our best/only hope on that matter is with BL finishing that HH series (and hopefully also detailing a bit of the Scouring). "Space Marine" is out of cannon. http://www.blacklibrary.com/warhammer-40000/Space-Marine.html There were also squats and space marines riding titans in that book. Black Library loves to put points open to speculation. I think Dorn's death is a bit boring. Lost Dorn could be interesting. I even doubt Ferrus death after reading Fabius knitting a certain EC captain's head. BTW Once an Iron Warrior asked me what would we do if we saw a golden armored daemon prince with a glowing bionic hand among the Iron Warriors ranks. @Wade Garret: Did these nighty sods really mourn for their self hating primarch? I don't think so. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/268965-lost-legions-and-emperors-return-hh-speculation/page/3/#findComment-3377056 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vesper Posted May 21, 2013 Share Posted May 21, 2013 "Space Marine" is out of cannon. http://www.blacklibr...ace-Marine.html IIRC There were also squats and space marines riding titans in that book. Nothing's really "out of canon", for "canon" isn't really something in the 40k franchise. See ADB's "loose-canon" post. I think Dorn's death is a bit boring. Lost Dorn could be interesting. You want your Primarch to be like every other loyalist who flew the galaxy or died alone in the Eye of Terror ? "Interesting" ? Really ? I thought you played Imperial Fists, and that the death of your Primarch, fighting on the frontline, whatever the cost, whatever the sacrifice, was something you'd be proud of. Because if the emperor sacrified himself, who was Dorn to refuse to pay the price for Mankind's survival ? Dorn did his duty. And that was all that mattered to him. You should have nothing but scorn for those Primarchs who left Mankind like cowards. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/268965-lost-legions-and-emperors-return-hh-speculation/page/3/#findComment-3377070 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legionator Posted May 21, 2013 Share Posted May 21, 2013 "Space Marine" is out of cannon. http://www.blacklibr...ace-Marine.html IIRC There were also squats and space marines riding titans in that book. Nothing's really "out of canon", for "canon" isn't really something in the 40k franchise. See ADB's "loose-canon" post. > I think Dorn's death is a bit boring. Lost Dorn could be interesting. You want your Primarch to be like every other loyalist who flew the galaxy or died alone in the Eye of Terror ? "Interesting" ? Really ? I thought you played Imperial Fists, and that the death of your Primarch, fighting on the frontline, whatever the cost, whatever the sacrifice, was something you'd be proud of. Because if the emperor sacrified himself, who was Dorn to refuse to pay the price for Mankind's survival ? Dorn did his duty. And that was all that mattered to him. You should have nothing but scorn for those Primarchs who left Mankind like cowards. AD-B spoke about minor details but books like Space Marine or Inquisiton War is very different from modern 40K fluff. These differences are beyond the writer's initiatives. They carry "Heretic Tome" insignia. I accept that Dorn is dead if it is stated in Codex: Space Marines 5th edition as calgar101 said. Curze's vision in Prince of Crows also supports this. Actually I'm planning to play Dark Angels (because of termies, that is why) but in fluff sense I'm a fan of IF. I have no problem with "heroic death" idea. What I'm telling is: 1) Was it necessary? Is one less despoiler class ship worthy of a primarch's (esp. a tactical - strategical genius like Dorn) death? 2) An unintentionally lost primarch (unlike Vulkan, Russ, Corax and Khan) could be an interesting thing. What if he had been captured by Fabius Bile? We all know that he thought IF's geneseed is the closest to the Emperor. Probably we will have books about scouring period after HH series. Till that time, I will hope for a clear explanation or a retcon. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/268965-lost-legions-and-emperors-return-hh-speculation/page/3/#findComment-3377097 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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