Lost Legions and Emperor's Return ***HH Speculation***

[calgar101]

Dorn's death is described briefly on the bottom of page 27 of the codex.

[Vesper]

 

1) Was it necessary? Is one less despoiler class ship worthy of a

primarch's (esp. a tactical - strategical genius like Dorn) death?

Despoilers are basically a battle-barges, you know. It's huge and perticulary strong (I have one in my battlefleet gothic fleet, and it's really big).

It may have housed the big men of that perticular Black Crusade. Or something along those lines, so hard to tell.

 

 

2) An unintentionally lost primarch (unlike Vulkan, Russ, Corax and

Khan) could be an interesting thing. What if he had been captured by

Fabius Bile? We all know that he thought IF's geneseed is the closest to

the Emperor.

Well, as far as I know, at least Khan was pretty much tricked by Dark Eldars. So it's not really intentional.

 

 

Probably we will have books about scouring period after HH series. Till that time, I will hope for a clear explanation or a retcon.

Maybe after the HH series, maybe before. The Abaddon series AD-B is working on right now is post Heresy stuff. But yeah, we'll probably have more about it. But don't hope too much for a retcon.

[Wade Garrett]

Was Dorn's death necessary?

 

You understand that we're talking about Rogal Dorn, right? This is a man who does not slink through the shadows, approaching his enemies under the camoflague of cowardice...and he does not ask his subordinates to make any sacrifices he wouldn't make himself. He is not Alpharius or Lorgar, to spend the lives of his sons or those under his protection like a merchant spends coin.

 

If there's a price to pay, he pays it himself. When the wolf is at the door, the barbarians are at the gates, or a Despoiler class warship is bearing down on a helpless planet, Rogal Dorn plants himself firmly in their path and says "Come on if you think you're hard enough."

 

If that means his own demise, what of it? "Duty is a mountain. Death is a feather."

[Onisuzume]

 

 

Wasn't it mentioned in that novel "Space Marine" by Ian Watson that had his entire body recovered, with his skeleton (sans hands) kept in a piece of amber shaped after him? And his two hands kept in individual stasis shrines?

 

The only unclear part about Dorn's death is when it happened.

The Sword of Sacrilege is supposed to be a Despoiler Class, which wasn't designed until M36, when Index Astartes II states he died shortly after Corax disappeared.

So either he died shortly after Corax disappeared leaving the ship class as incorrect, or Dorn did lead his chapter for several millenia after the HH and leaves Index Astartes II incorrect about when he died.

 

So our best/only hope on that matter is with BL finishing that HH series (and hopefully also detailing a bit of the Scouring).

 

"Space Marine" is out of cannon. http://www.blacklibrary.com/warhammer-40000/Space-Marine.html There were also squats and space marines riding titans in that book.

 

 

Well, Squats are technically non-canon now, so that would be one of the bigger offenders I reckon.

Space Marines could use lasguns in RT as well.

Guess that's what you get for an RT-era novel.

 

Still, is there fluff contradicting the fact that his entire remains would've been recovered?

Just skip out all the crazy stuff.

 

Also, keep in mind that the Despoiler is based on the Terminus Est, although not nearly as powerful as it, it'd still be quite dangerous.

[Wade Garrett]

I thought squats weren't necessarily OUT of canon...it's just that in canon they all got et by Tyranids.

[Onisuzume]

That, and I think that some pieces of fluff/novels were changed to remove various Squats as well.

But... aren't we getting a bit off-topic?

[evilmittens]

For what its worth, the reason the HH is so popular, in my opinion, is because there is a narritive. 40k stuff is great, but really only describes battles or campainsin that setting. My thought is GW and BL should consider, at some point, moving the plot of the 40k series along. Now, that does not mean that the SETTING changes for gaming however. Gaming and fluff at this point are becoming seperate species. Battles in the 42 millenium do not have to effect the 41st at all. So fluffites like me, who do not play the TT game can enjoy progression, while gamers can play in the 40k setting.

 

That, and if they move the plot forward, maybe a whole new range of 42k..or 45k..or whatever table top games can be developed...with whatever added to make more money

[Blacksad]

congrats to the OP. managing to go to 4 pages with such bs. I salute you :)

[bogdan]

For what its worth, the reason the HH is so popular, in my opinion, is because there is a narritive. 40k stuff is great, but really only describes battles or campainsin that setting. My thought is GW and BL should consider, at some point, moving the plot of the 40k series along. Now, that does not mean that the SETTING changes for gaming however. Gaming and fluff at this point are becoming seperate species. Battles in the 42 millenium do not have to effect the 41st at all. So fluffites like me, who do not play the TT game can enjoy progression, while gamers can play in the 40k setting. That, and if they move the plot forward, maybe a whole new range of 42k..or 45k..or whatever table top games can be developed...with whatever added to make more money

Would you play the games knowing that in the fluff your faction is wiped out? Why bother to play or invest emotionally in your faction when it doesn't matter in the fluff.

HH despite knowing the result ,doesn't destroy any faction, and in the end can end making both sides content with their wins and their showing.

[Kol Saresk]

Considering people play the Astral Claws(not Red Corsairs, but the Astral Claws), the Tiger Claws, Lamenters, the Marines Errant and any number of factions that are wiped out or well on their way there, I'd go with yes, they would play those factions.

 

That said, speaking as a "fluffite"' or more specifically as someone who was introduced to 40K through BL's very well known and (in)famous publication known as Lord of the Night' I do not think the "timeline" should be progressed. So far it has been progressed in 3rd Edition only to be retconned into nonexistence. Prime examples are the 13th Black Crusade which saw Abaddon take the Cadian Gate, Medusa 5 which saw one of Abaddon's lieutenants killed and the parts of the Ciaphas Cain series that were "looking back".

 

And to be honest, I can understand why. 40K isn't a stop in the timeline. It is the setting. Without it, the Heresy would not exist. Without it, only WHF would exist. Maybe. And as a setting that spans 1,000 years and covers the entire galaxy, there is more than enough room to be filled. If the timeline must be progressed, than at least the entire setting of 40K should be covered first.

[GhostMalone]

We need more worldwide campaigns to progress, I'd like to see cadia fall personally, but I don't want it to progress I just want more fluff and background battles