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Wishlisting for next Codex


Deschenus Maximus

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What would you like to see in the next Codex?

 

Off the top of my head, here's my list:

-Red Thirst that is actually useful. It kinda fails hard compared to Combat Tactics or Counter Attack.

-Cheaper Rhinos (a 40% increase in cost compared to a normal Rhino for a 25% increase in speed and nothing else is a bit steep, imo).

-Cheaper or better Sang Guard.

-Better/cheaper plasma/flamer pistols.

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early is right... We got last codex less than 3 years ago. Some armies (Eldar - 2006, Tau - 2001, Black Templars - 2005, Daemons - 2008, IG - 2009, Orks - 2008, Sisters of Battle - 1997) are far more due and likely to get some codex update love well before we do.

 

I'd agree that Red Thirst is pretty weak.

Fast Rhinos were amazing till 6th. A tweak won't matter - transport tanks aren't very tactical anymore.

 

I'd like to see Priests come back into favor with a tweak to beef their buffs.

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More options for Captains. Artificer armour? Whatever to compete with named characters.

Larger assault squads.15?

As you implied? Something to manipulate initiative. Ours or our enemies?

Something to defend against reserve roll manipulations. Resurrection of doa lists?

Better psychic defense? 5+ deny the witch within blood chalice range?

 

Just brainstorming......

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Well, as long as one can dream. :D

 

- finally Captains that are versatile, effective and fitting to their background. Artificer Armour and Glaive Encarmines are the least to be expected.

 

- As it seems to be the trend, some BA-specific warlord table, maybe an improved one for Captains as Warlords. Captains lead companies, strike-forces and missions. Not Librarians and Chaplains. The former are scribes in the first place, then supportive warriors. The latter are busy leading the Lost into battle to grant them a honourable death.

 

- Dante with an Axe at intiative. Make the old man worthy in close combat, not only for his special rules. He's the oldest living space marine for Sanguinius' sake, he should be better at wielding a weapon he's been wielding for the past milliennium. :cry:

 

- DC Jump Packs at 10 pts per model. 15 is hardly justified and even Vanguard Veterans pay 10, and they can assault after deepstrike. On that note, even though the model is beautiful, Lemartes should be able to choose whether he's using a Jumppack or not, like it was in the 3rd edition codex.

 

- Since this is a wishlist, what I wish more than anything else is that we get the rule Red Thirst as a substitute for Furious Charge, like it was in the 3rd Edition codex. It's probably not going to happen, but I do want my +1 strength and +1 initiative on the charge back!

Maybe instead of giving FC to everyone in 6", the Sanguinary Priests could boost our Red Thirst(which then was no longer an ability we had to roll for) into giving the +1 initiative. I'd say this would be fairly balanced, and the Blood Angels would still dominate close combat, as we should.

 

- Well, if the Dark Angels, the guys with the most traitorous history of 'Loyalist' chapters can have their most elite warriors with WS5, we should as well. Sanguinary Guard with WS5. DC don't really need it, they've got Chaplains for that. SG are the bodyguard of the Primarch, and the best of the best, even Terminator Veterans should bow to their skill and experience. If we continue the fluff, that is. Otherwise, the unit's perfect.

 

 

Nothing else really, our codex is fine the way it is. The things I'd change are minor and should help to correct the things that have been done wrong under Mat Ward's lead.

 

Edit:

 

Wow, the Red Thirst thing was ninja'd 4 times. Gotta be the right thing to do :lol:

 

Snorri

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I will just mention some thing that I always think when playing with my Blood Angels.

In no way is this something in the lines of "I WANT THIS", but it are random ideas instead of one big plan.

 

Characters:

-It'd be lovely if some of our characters had the ability to toggle between JP, like Lemartes (it looks weird when you have 9 DC without and Lemartes with a JP)

-I think it's strange that Sanguinor isn't an IC when he gives an +A1-buff.

-Sanguinor buffing a random Sergeant is strange imo.

-I agree on the Captain-part, they have so few options and it forces us to HQ a Librarian or Reclusiarch.

 

Red Thirst: I think that it's a too small chance for a too small benefit and don't we all hate it to see it miss on our CC-guys while the range support gets it?

"Thank you for giving it to my ranged-dread, my Furioso didn't need it anyway!".

Wouldn't it be nice if we rolled D6 for each unit with Red Thirst and then give X Red Thirst's to eligible units?

 

Sanguinary Guard:

-For the über-elite they are supposed to be, their stats are a bit 'meeh' in my eyes. Just a small thing like WS5 would look great.

-With 200 points for 5 naked guys, a 5++ wouldn't be too much. I always see them as JP-termies, so why not that bit of help.

 

Death Company:

-The only time I give them JP's is when I have run out of other models in huge Apocalypse-battles. 15 points per model is insane!

 

Disembark:

-Unless I am mistaken we can only move a transport 6" and then disembark, I think that counters the part where those vehicles are Fast.

 

That's the stuff I can remember, but maybe I'll think of some things after my big battle tomorrow.

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I want my Sanguinary High Priest back. I remember being unique in fielding him as my HQ choice instead of a chaplain, and then the PDF took it away :sweat:. I loved having an apothecary lead my army, it was just so different. At the very least bump Corbulo back to HQ so I can pretend...

 

Captains to not be rubbish. DC to pay fewer points for Jump Packs (on a par with Vanguard vets is probably fair). I like the current incarnation of how the DC and Red Thirst work, IMO they're superior to the previous ones (3rd/4th ed where it was completely random, then the pdf dex where you were hamstringing yourself if you didn't take DC). Take away the Deep-Striking land raiders (thank you Matt Ward), and away as dedicated transports for everyone except maybe termy squads....there's no reason why the army should have greater access to land raiders than to rhinos. Give us the storm talon (as part of a greater desire to see Ravens and Talons as a unified marine feature, unless they deliberately try and keep all the marine chapters unique as regards fliers).

 

At this stage though I think wishlisting is rather pointless... it'll be 2015 at least by the time we get a new one given how solid our book is, and how many are ahead in the queue. DA are confirmed, and BT, Tau, Eldar, Daemons, Orks, Nids and vanilla SM all require a new book more than we do. Even at 4 40k army releases a year (unlikely given recent trends), we're looking early 2015 at the earliest. If there's fewer slots, and/or more armies that go first, we might not even see a new book ahead of 7th edition.

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IG definitely don't need a new dex anytime soon. However, someone else suggested letting BA use Jump packs to assault even if they moved with them and I think it's a great idea. Its fluffy and would be a nice buff.

 

@Tsibjen If SG had a 5++ they'd be OP. Termies are the same cost but don't have a jump pack and I'd hardly consider them naked since they have master crafted power weapons. If the had a 5++ they'd need to be 225 for a squad or 250.

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@Tsibjen If SG had a 5++ they'd be OP. Termies are the same cost but don't have a jump pack and I'd hardly consider them naked since they have master crafted power weapons. If the had a 5++ they'd need to be 225 for a squad or 250.

 

I don't know. They are our iconic group tho!

Terminators are better at ranged and have more options for ranged.

And if we want to compare the cost to terminators we could give them Power Fists, making the price 250 for a Sanguinary Guard that can't be over 5 models.

 

It's just that at the moment I find them a bit of meeh..

I really have to justify playing them and most of the time I'd rather play Terminators.

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Dante:

Better rules to represent his 1100 years of leading the blood angels. By the fluff he has never lost a battle. I want a strategic impact

 

Mephiston:

-1 S/T, Independent character. Or give him back his refractor field 5+ inv.

 

Lemartes:

Cost reduction. Change his Berzerk rule slightly - once per game, in an assault phase. Currently it is very hard to acctually utilize.

 

Tycho:

Rites of Battle - Gives the option of using his leadership, instead of forcing his leadership onto others.

Currently, if Tycho gets hit by a leadership reducing effect, all the Blood Angels in his army suffers from reduced leadership

 

DC Tycho:

Make him part of the Death Company squad.

 

The Sanguinor:

Kill him off. Bring in a master from another successor chapter.

 

Captain:

Increased loadout options.

 

Techmarine:

Independent character.

 

Death Company:

Reduce WS to 4, Reduce cost of Jump packs.

 

Sanguinary Guard:

WS 5, Unit size 5-10

 

Vanguard:

Kill them off, bring back Veteran Assault Squads.

 

Sternguard:

Kill them off, we now have Veteran Assault Squads.

 

Storm Ravens:

MOAR POWAH!!!

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HQ:

Dante--Give him back the ability to strike at initiative. I don't care if you make his axe an unusual power weapon (and thus AP3), but him swinging last is ridiculous. Dante was a marginal HQ choice in 5th, and he got nerfed for 6th. Furthermore I'd like to see one of two options added, to make him more viable--either give him Eternal Warrior (not even going to bother explaining this), or re-work Tactical Precision as him giving Heroic Intervention to a Sanguinary Guard or Honor Guard unit that he's joined. Seriously, Dante leads guys right into the fray for combat, not a bunch of meltagunners wanting to snipe a tank. For his point costs (plus the associated cost of the squad), that's not really unreasonable.

 

Seth--Get the man a power weapon, this normal close combat weapon on special characters stuff is ridiculous. And either give him a synergy ability, or look to decrease his point costs. Look to the Chaos Marines codex for reasonable costing of beatstick characters. Always felt like Astorath's "Shadow of the Primarch" ability would have made more sense on Seth, to reflect the Flesh Tearers well. Optional jump pack.

 

Astorath--Striking at initiative or a point decrease would be helpful. Optional jump pack.

 

Mephiston--Don't touch him, he's amazing as he is.

 

Tycho--What a mess. Never noticed that Rites of Battle can nerf your whole army, definitely make that optional. Point reduction for sure. Psycho Tycho should be part of the Death Company. I'd really like to see some sort of synergy with him. Maybe the ability to confer a couple of USR's on a select unit like Sicarius, or even just have him give Combat Tactics to a unit he joins. He was supposed to be a very proficient strategist and Dante's heir-apparent.

 

Reclusiarch--Slight point reduction.

 

Captain--Significant point reduction (somewhere in the 25-30 point range). Increased wargear options. Rites of Battle should be a given. I'd really like some synergy. Maybe something like a lesser Grand Strategy, where one unit gets a special rule or some such. This should be the template for all Space Marine captains.

 

Sanguinary High Priest--Bring him back. Superior stat line to a regular Priest. Perhaps give him a more effective Blood Chalice, along with Corbulo. Could add the +1 initiative back here, just with a higher cost. Or do something like give him an extended range chalice (12"?), but limit the +1 initiative to just the unit he's leading.

 

Elites:

Chaplains--Point reduction.

 

Sanguinary Guard--Weapon Skill 5. Decrease the cost of Death Masks. Given what they do, that's a 5-10 point upgrade at most. Given the first suggestion, I can live with the rest, including their lack of an Invul save.

 

Furioso Dread--Let the Librarian take a few options. Upgrading or trading out the Storm Bolter wouldn't be a big deal, nor taking Extra Armor if you really wanted it. Same with a single Blood Talon instead of fist.

 

Terminators--Tactical Terminators are still too boring. Point reduction would seem to be the easiest choice. Might be more compelling at something like 35 points per model.

 

Techmarine--Independent Character, definitely.

 

Corbulo--See the above discussion on Sanguinary High Priests. And give him a real power weapon, not this rending close combat weapon garbage. Optional jump pack.

 

Troops:

Tactical Squad--Give me a reason to take them. Some people like to talk about how they're better, and they are somewhat. But every other Marine codex out there right now does them better. There's no reason to take OUR Tactical Squads, as opposed to Codex Tacticals, Grey Hunters, or Strike Squads. I'd consider them if I could buy a close combat weapon for them at +1 point per model. Grey Hunters would still be more efficient but at least I'd be roughly similar, with Furious Charge and FNP to help make up the difference. Heavy Flamer option like DA are going to get would also be nice. Random thought that applies across the board through all codex entries, stop charging so much for plasma pistols. They're bad. They're never worth 15 points, they're probably not even worth 10 points. 5-7 and then we can talk.

 

Death Company--Reduce the cost of their jump packs to 10 points per model. Knock their WS back down to 4. They'll still be great, let Sanguinary Guard have improved combat skill as their niche, as opposed to mindless berserkers.

Lemartes--Optional jump pack.

 

Scouts--Ugh, could these guys not suck in every codex except Wolves? Might need to steal a page from Wolf Scouts to make them worthwhile.

 

Assault Squad--Kinda lost a bit of their luster. Still solid. Would kinda like to see them drop 1 point per model. Then an Assault Marine with jump pack/ride is on equal footing with a Tactical Marine with bolter, pistol, and CC weapon. That makes them equal, with Assault Marines having the edge in mobility and close-ranged specialist firepower, and Tactical Marines having the long-ranged and rapid fire shooting. Both with a distinct role and able to perform them reasonably well.

 

Rhino--40 points per model. There's no reason we should be paying an extra 15 points for the ability to go 6" further when we flat out. Was questionable in 5th, now its an active detriment in 6th.

 

Drop Pod--Any chance we could get the 12-man model available to codex Marines? Its nice to be able to attach an IC to a normal-sized unit.

 

Land Raiders--A shared problem among all the codexes. They cost too much for something that isn't nearly as resilient as its purported to be. Still needs a price drop, or needs stupid durability like the Forge World one. Aim for more around the 200-215 range and maybe there's something.

 

Fast Attack

Baal Predator--6th edition killed the Flamestorm Cannon as a viable weapon. It needs Torrent to have any chance of staying alive. I'd be okay with a modest price hike on that particular weapon.

 

Bike Squad--Point reduction. See Chaos Marines codex for what a great biker unit looks like. Some close combat options to make it feel more like a traditional BA unit wouldn't be a bad thing either.

 

Heavy Support

Whirlwind--This thing has been terrible for multiple editions. Why even bother giving an artillery piece the Fast rule? I don't want to pay for something that I'll never use. Skyfire at the least would be a plus, Interceptor would be even better.

 

Predator--Reduce the cost of the twin-linked lascannon turret. Its been horribly overpriced in every codex for a while now. Its only marginally better than the autocannon, nowhere near 45 points better. 15-20.

 

Red Thirst could use some addressing. If you have Priests in your army then its barely an improvement at all. I'd almost like to see Rage and Fearless, instead of Furious Charge. I think Astorath would need either re-costing or a change to his rules in that case, however.

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HQ:

Dante--Give him back the ability to strike at initiative. I don't care if you make his axe an unusual power weapon (and thus AP3), but him swinging last is ridiculous. Dante was a marginal HQ choice in 5th, and he got nerfed for 6th. Furthermore I'd like to see one of two options added, to make him more viable--either give him Eternal Warrior (not even going to bother explaining this), or re-work Tactical Precision as him giving Heroic Intervention to a Sanguinary Guard or Honor Guard unit that he's joined. Seriously, Dante leads guys right into the fray for combat, not a bunch of meltagunners wanting to snipe a tank. For his point costs (plus the associated cost of the squad), that's not really unreasonable.

 

 

I like the Heroic Intervention bit. Would also like to see some overall strategic abilities for him. He's supposed to be one of the greatest tacticians in the Imperium, but accurate Deep Strikes and Hit & Run don't really reflect that.

 

Seth--Get the man a power weapon, this normal close combat weapon on special characters stuff is ridiculous. And either give him a synergy ability, or look to decrease his point costs. Look to the Chaos Marines codex for reasonable costing of beatstick characters. Always felt like Astorath's "Shadow of the Primarch" ability would have made more sense on Seth, to reflect the Flesh Tearers well. Optional jump pack.

 

 

Blood Reaver => master-crafted Chainfist. Liking the Shadown of the Primarch suggestion, or at least something to reflect the greater amount of DC in the Tearers.

 

Astorath--Striking at initiative or a point decrease would be helpful. Optional jump pack.

 

 

If Red Thirst was better, it migh make him a more attractive choice on his own.

 

Mephiston--Don't touch him, he's amazing as he is.

 

 

Honestly, wouldn't mind seeing him revert to S/T 5 if it meant being an IC. Not so much because it would make him better, but it just seems weird from a "realism" point of view that Mephiston would walk/levitate everywhere instead of hitching a ride.

 

Captain--Significant point reduction (somewhere in the 25-30 point range). Increased wargear options. Rites of Battle should be a given. I'd really like some synergy. Maybe something like a lesser Grand Strategy, where one unit gets a special rule or some such. This should be the template for all Space Marine captains.

 

 

I've suggested before that being able to pick their Warlord trait should be a special ability of Captains across all codexes. Maybe that is too powerful, so rolling two dice and picking the one you want instead, maybe?

 

Sanguinary High Priest--Bring him back. Superior stat line to a regular Priest. Perhaps give him a more effective Blood Chalice, along with Corbulo. Could add the +1 initiative back here, just with a higher cost. Or do something like give him an extended range chalice (12"?), but limit the +1 initiative to just the unit he's leading.

 

 

What did High Priests do back in the day? I'm a 5th ed codex convert...

 

Sanguinary Guard--Weapon Skill 5. Decrease the cost of Death Masks. Given what they do, that's a 5-10 point upgrade at most. Given the first suggestion, I can live with the rest, including their lack of an Invul save.

 

 

Yes and yes. Would like Glaive Encarmines to be a bit fancier too. Ap2 swords? That would give them a niche role - elite infantry hunters.

 

Terminators--Tactical Terminators are still too boring. Point reduction would seem to be the easiest choice. Might be more compelling at something like 35 points per model.

 

 

I just hope they get Split Fire like the DW termies are supposedly getting.

 

Techmarine--Independent Character, definitely.

 

 

Cheaper Servitors and access to a vehicle would be a must, imo.

 

Corbulo--See the above discussion on Sanguinary High Priests. And give him a real power weapon, not this rending close combat weapon garbage. Optional jump pack.

 

 

Far seeing Eye allowing to reroll the dice for first turn would be golden.

 

Death Company--Reduce the cost of their jump packs to 10 points per model. Knock their WS back down to 4. They'll still be great, let Sanguinary Guard have improved combat skill as their niche, as opposed to mindless berserkers.

Lemartes--Optional jump pack.

 

 

10 pts is too expensive for the jump packs, imo. 5 at the most.

 

Scouts--Ugh, could these guys not suck in every codex except Wolves? Might need to steal a page from Wolf Scouts to make them worthwhile.

 

 

Make them reeeal cheap, for one thing. Camo cloaks come default. Options for 1 heavy or 1 special weapon per 5 guys. That would make them at least decent.

 

Assault Squad--Kinda lost a bit of their luster. Still solid. Would kinda like to see them drop 1 point per model. Then an Assault Marine with jump pack/ride is on equal footing with a Tactical Marine with bolter, pistol, and CC weapon. That makes them equal, with Assault Marines having the edge in mobility and close-ranged specialist firepower, and Tactical Marines having the long-ranged and rapid fire shooting. Both with a distinct role and able to perform them reasonably well.

 

 

Access to cheapish storm shields would be nice. More special weapons? If tacticals can get a combi-melta, a melta and then a heavy flamer, assault squads need to be able to have something to keep up.

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Would like Glaive Encarmines to be a bit fancier too. Ap2 swords? That would give them a niche role - elite infantry hunters.
Or make them proper relic blades that go with their Artificer Armor. And give captains access to both as well.
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I'd be happy with a nice colourful hardback Codex even if nothing changed.

 

I think the HQs are most wrong. GW were trying to push a couple of new models, obviously intended to be the New Dante and Mephiston, and at last moment changed them to the very duff Astorath (crazy fluff and poor effects in 6th edition) and Sanguinor. What they cost us were sensible captain options (Artificer armour, death Mask and Glaive Encarmine,) the Sanguinary Priest equivalent of the Reclusiarch and rules to make the other Chapter Masters - I don't think a Counts as Seth or Counts as Dante is at all comparable. There will be chapter masters on bikes, in Terminator armour even (from the books) in dreadnoughts.

 

Then to add insult to injury, classing the Axe Mortalis as an Axe rather than a special weapon has ruined dante as the hit and run hand to hand master. crazy decision.

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I've come up with some more stuff.

 

- hardback codex, good fluff, good cover at last!!!!

- useful scouts, and with useful, I mean dirt cheap or able to charge after arriving from reservers over the board edges. Something like that.

- Drop the following HQs: The Sanguinor, Astorath. They are not needed. While having nice models and all, they simply don't fit. A bloody executioner drawn from the ranks of the own legion? A flippin' ghost-entity that comes out of nowhere and takes away our chances of glorious death on the battlefield? How about NO.

- A special banner bearer would be nice, for the Chapter Master's Honour Guard.

 

- DC Tycho similar unit entry as Lemartes, basically an added model to an existing DC.

 

- Captains made far superior than our other HQ choices, and regarding pure combat strength only slightly weaker than our special characters.

 

- Updated BA specific psychic powers, more in line of the rulebook disciplines. I'm not sure how this was done in the chaos codex, but I'd like to have at least the chance of whether I'm choosing my powers or rolling for them.

 

 

 

 

Snorri

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What did High Priests do back in the day? I'm a 5th ed codex convert...

They gave attack rerolls on the charge, and could take Death Masks (well, all ICs could then), Exsanguinators, and Grails. They were also ICs, and the only other Sanguinary Priests you could take had to be in Honor Guards like modern Sanguinary Novitiates.

 

Furious Charge was a BA staple, though, and folded into The Black Rage. You also *had* to take a Death Company, and it was based on random members of your army freaking out and painting their armor black. I remember needing to keep something like a dozen on hand.

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WS5 terminators. The legion that has an innate lust for close combat is less skilled than some pansy dark angel knights. Give me a break... Or, just make all vets WS/BS 5 since they're supposed to be better trained and more experienced but that +1 attack sure does little to show for it beyond the greater chance to wound something with an extra attack. They're next in line for the damn captain chair for throne's sake.
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Dante is a great leader, but he is not a great strategist.

 

He is supreme commander imperial forces wherever he goes, but he doesn't 'do' planning.

 

 

Scatter free deep strike, assaulting thereafter, with hit and run, seems nice, but would almost always be broken.

How would you pts that?

 

Yes, we need better captain options,

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The prices on the Librarian, Chaplain and Captain seem to be standard across all Marine books. But, I don’t like their upgrade options. I specifically don’t like the fact that they can’t take Artificer Armor and I can’t put a Storm Shield on my Librarian without Terminator Armor. This needs to be addressed.

 

Tactical Squads can feel a little underwhelming compared to C:SM Tactical Squads, and don’t fit the role that Blood Angels portray, which is Run and Gun. If we were to shave a few points off, let them take a special weapon at 5 man or allow them to take two special weapons it would be worth it in my opinion.

 

12 man Drop Pods. I want to put a Priest and a Librarian with a Tactical Squad, but I can’t because I’ll lose my Plasma Gun and Heavy Weapon.

 

Better stats on our demigod Honor Guard. I know why they have their stat line and it’s because of their war gear. But, the fact that the Sanguinary Guard don’t have WS5 is just a little redonc…

 

Astorath and Dante strike at initiative

Red Thirst give Rage instead of Furious Charge. It makes Priests seem a little redundant when you actually make that roll.

 

In terms of Scouts, which I’m seeing a lot of talk about, the reason they’ve got WS/BS4 in Space Wolves is because they’re not Initiates. They’re Space Wolves who decide they don’t want to belong to a pack. A squad of 10 costs 10 points more, has to pay to upgrade to Sniper Rifles and can’t take Camo Cloaks. They’re also an elite slot and fill a different roll in that army. Now… don’t ask me why Dark Angels are BS/WS4, but they’re also over priced and an elite slot. I’m not saying our scouts are better than theirs, but the fact that they can fill a cheap, slightly resilient troop slot who can back cap objectives and still be able to fire across the map makes them worth their points.

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My wish list....

 

Better Captain options are a must.... enough said

 

Better Sang guard weapons... come on all it is, is a master crafted power weapon.... that gets the two handed rule so we cant count the nice inferno/plasma pistols as a CCW.

 

A HQ Sang Priest

 

A different form of Master of the Forge... I mean come on as a chapter we should be almost close to the Iron Hands for our love of pretty tech.

 

An option to take Assault marines as fast attack and/or troops... we're the only SM codex that can't field a company using the FOC!

Maybe have the FA ones be forced to go in reserve and not counted in the 50% reserve

 

Maybe make the Storm raven a dedicated transport for scouts or for any one if you take away the Land Raiders

 

No deep striking Land Raiders.... see above

 

Let Tycho die please replace him with his successor or a some one from a successor chapter. Come on he died in the last war for Armageddon

 

Fluff for Special characters that isn't basically copy and pasted

 

Fluff that hints that our recruiting base being a slightly less superstitious version of the ones from Fenris, What other chapter recruits from a people that have to fend off attacks from mutants and scorpions that are bigger than a space marine then have to do it on there own just to get to the selection site then fight others who failed to pass selection and then have to fight each other and that's if they don't die of radiation sickness or are too mutated to become BA anyway

 

 

 

/Fluff rants

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