derpasaurus Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 i tend not to get too much of any consequence, but when i do, oh man. had a squad of csm that had been whittled down to a lone champ. charged some guard, killed the sgt in a challenge, daemon prince. butchered the rest of the group next turn, cleared up the combat, then everything shot at him for one turn which let all the rest of my stuff advance and continue to harass his backfield. ended up not winning the game due to some bad luck with the dice, but that sure went a long way to leveling the playing field and the look on my friend's face when i got DP was priceless. having said that, i did have huron spawn once. the chaos gods sure are fickle <_< ers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sception Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 Would rather see more consistently good boon chart, no spawndom, no forced challenges, but challenge refusal results in test (T? Ld?) or become spawn. Something like that. Oh, well. It is what it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nehekhare Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 http://www.wobblymodelsyndrome.com/uploads/3/3/4/2/3342427/7396927_orig.jpg (courtesy of wobbly model syndrome) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wargame insomniac Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 So far the dice have to been with me with Chaos Boons. Either I have rolled something that was uselss. Or the one time when I had a tooled up lord and rolled something useful pregame, then when I killed an enemy character I rolled up Deamon Prince. Not only did I lose the starting wargear but I even lost the pregame Chaos boon roll. Not impressed.so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khestra the Unbeheld Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 The boon table has literally been a non-issue for me thus far. No one I play against accepts my challenges, nor do they feel the need to issue any, all out of fear of me winning the challenge and making whatever beat up their guy even stronger. Since no other army in the game is forced to challenge, and isn't particularly hampered by refusing to accept them, as an army-wide mechanic making CSMs do it is pretty pointless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nehekhare Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 isn't particularly hampered by refusing well at least the refuser won't fight... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khestra the Unbeheld Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 isn't particularly hampered by refusing well at least the refuser won't fight... You say that like that's of some sort of benefit. Allow me to demonstrate why that simply isn't so: Let's say I have a Chaos Lord commit to an assault against an SM tac squad with an attached Master of the Forge. The Lord challenges, the MoF refuses and stands aside from combat. The Lord then proceeds to beat the squad in CC, killing all but the MoF, who then uses Combat Tactics to run from combat and escape being locked in with the Lord, whose 1d6 consolidation move isn't enough to catch the MoF compared to the MoF's 2d6 run away move. The next phase, the MoF uses ASTKNF to auto-rally and open fire on the Lord with plasma or melta or whatever they have, potentially killing said Lord if the Lord had Wounds already or botches an Invul Save vs S8 and just dies outright. So what if the MoF didn't fight? It doesn't hurt them any to refuse, because if the squad dies they just leave, so every SM Codex isn't bothered by refusal if it means the character with the most dangerous abilities or weapons or who's worth the most VPs doesn't have to worry about being killed by being stuck in CC. Moreover, refusal denies a roll on the Boon table, so that potential prize is stolen along with the kill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jb7090 Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 From everything we have new in our codex I hate that table most of all. That's the single most definitive point that makes me think about this codex as "pile of poorly written rules", for following reasons: - DP can be transformed into DP, only losing all his wargear. - DP can be transformed into a spawn. - 10 points with huge chance to get results absolutely useless for champions and characters bunkered in squads? - I do not have spawn or DP models, so for me 21-22 and 65-66 means losing my lord right away. - killing cultist champion doesn't seem like a worthy thing to get promotion from The Dark Gods. - sounds quite stupid that my Lord is VotLW and fought for 10 000 years, and he is still pathetic worm with S4 T4 and W3, and suddenly he becomes a DP with single victory? My personal experience with this chaos boon table ended up throwing fleet for all my squad champions and unworthy mutations for all my independent characters, so I will never pay 10pts for it again. But it looks like I'm the only one who's complaining so hard about it. Maybe I'm just exaggerating? What is your experience with boons table? Last game huron became a spawn, which has been the only real bad thing to happen to me in the last couple months. You should get a 40mm base and stick something on there to represent a chaos spawn so you dont lose your warlord like that, I personally use the dire wolves from fantasy VC army with tyranid arms glued to them, no one has ever had a problem with it standing in for a chaos spawn. Same thing with the daemon prince, just get a 60mm base and stick anything on it and call it a prince. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vesper Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 From everything we have new in our codex I hate that table most of all. That's the single most definitive point that makes me think about this codex as "pile of poorly written rules", for following reasons: - DP can be transformed into DP, only losing all his wargear. - DP can be transformed into a spawn. - 10 points with huge chance to get results absolutely useless for champions and characters bunkered in squads? - I do not have spawn or DP models, so for me 21-22 and 65-66 means losing my lord right away. - killing cultist champion doesn't seem like a worthy thing to get promotion from The Dark Gods. - sounds quite stupid that my Lord is VotLW and fought for 10 000 years, and he is still pathetic worm with S4 T4 and W3, and suddenly he becomes a DP with single victory? My personal experience with this chaos boon table ended up throwing fleet for all my squad champions and unworthy mutations for all my independent characters, so I will never pay 10pts for it again. But it looks like I'm the only one who's complaining so hard about it. Maybe I'm just exaggerating? What is your experience with boons table? Last game huron became a spawn, which has been the only real bad thing to happen to me in the last couple months. You should get a 40mm base and stick something on there to represent a chaos spawn so you dont lose your warlord like that, I personally use the dire wolves from fantasy VC army with tyranid arms glued to them, no one has ever had a problem with it standing in for a chaos spawn. Same thing with the daemon prince, just get a 60mm base and stick anything on it and call it a prince. Post a picture of that. Seriously, do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Ambroz Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 Almost all of my experiences with the Boon table have been pretty bad. I've gotten shrouded on a unit of terminators, +1 BS to a beserker champion, stubborn to a chaos lord and alot of other stupid/worthless combos. Really why give +1 BS to a character who only has one real ranged option which is actually a template? This might've sounded cool when they thought of it but.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jb7090 Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/ll90/jb7090/photo2_zpsae69fe97.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nehekhare Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 Allow me to demonstrate [...] nice! works only with combat tactics or bad rolling, though, but I guess if the character in question would be able to do a lot of damage, he wouldn't refuse in the first place (in which case the joke's on us again). champion of chaos allowing enemy characters to be safe in CC - rule as intended? ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lepaca Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 isn't particularly hampered by refusing well at least the refuser won't fight... You say that like that's of some sort of benefit. Allow me to demonstrate why that simply isn't so: Let's say I have a Chaos Lord commit to an assault against an SM tac squad with an attached Master of the Forge. The Lord challenges, the MoF refuses and stands aside from combat. The Lord then proceeds to beat the squad in CC, killing all but the MoF, who then uses Combat Tactics to run from combat and escape being locked in with the Lord, whose 1d6 consolidation move isn't enough to catch the MoF compared to the MoF's 2d6 run away move. The next phase, the MoF uses ASTKNF to auto-rally and open fire on the Lord with plasma or melta or whatever they have, potentially killing said Lord if the Lord had Wounds already or botches an Invul Save vs S8 and just dies outright. So what if the MoF didn't fight? It doesn't hurt them any to refuse, because if the squad dies they just leave, so every SM Codex isn't bothered by refusal if it means the character with the most dangerous abilities or weapons or who's worth the most VPs doesn't have to worry about being killed by being stuck in CC. Moreover, refusal denies a roll on the Boon table, so that potential prize is stolen along with the kill. But characters that refuse to fight can still be killed if you cause enough wounds to the unit, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nehekhare Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 apotheosis: having to place a model with a dreadnought-sized base within 3" of a model with an infantry base that is most likely in CC surrounded by other troops is not benefitial at all and reeks of a severe case of asberger's syndrome in the designers department. But characters that refuse to fight can still be killed if you cause enough wounds to the unit, right? depends on model placement and the controlling player chooses how to allocate wounds in CC, but theoretically yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sception Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 As someone who works in a mental health office, I would say it reeks of a lack of effort & interest in the design department, not of a diagnosable mental health condition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nehekhare Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 no insult to asberger patients intended. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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