When are characters worth the points?

[skeletoro]

I've been wondering about this a bit - characters are pretty expensive. I think that they are sometimes well worth it, but I do wonder whether they are often a huge waste of points.

 

What do you all think? Do you feel like you usually get an OK return on the 100-300 point investment?

[Inquisitor Orion]

Its all about YOUR battle plan. Logan effects your army makeup. Ragnar does to in the way of tactics with his buffs. I used bjorn in 5th and liked him but dont think I would not consider it in 6th (the deciding factor is I put a plasma cannon on him). Ive never used bloodclaws so I dont have an opinion on lucas. Ulric and Canis I have also never used. Arjac is the man but have not used him as much lately due to wanting more bodies on the field.

 

The ones I have used are all worth it when my plan for the list works out. My opinion in 6th seems to be the more you can dish out in the shooting phase the more likely you are to win.

[dswanick]

I rarely field any characters worth more than 200pts (the one exception being my occasional use of a generic Thunderwolf Lord weighing in at ~275pts). I find that the extra bells and whistles of named characters just doesn't offset their cost over a generic unit of a simlar type.

[Brom MKIV]

I've been wondering about this a bit - characters are pretty expensive. I think that they are sometimes well worth it, but I do wonder whether they are often a huge waste of points.

 

What do you all think? Do you feel like you usually get an OK return on the 100-300 point investment?

I think there are two standpoints here, one is purely casual gaming, in which case I feel any character is worth its points. The other standpoint and probably the one you are speaking from is more competitive gaming, in which case things are a little more complicated.

 

For me, and speaking in general rather than SW specific, I feel the best return usually comes from a a single cheap mandatory HQ. Beyond this mandatory inclusion additional ICs should bring something the army actually needs and cannot find elsewhere, such as deal with problematic elements another unit cannot, alter the FoC, effect the board/game state during deployment and/or throughout the game, force multiply a key unit etc.

 

Talking SW specific I generally feel our units are pretty capable at covering most of the things that an additional IC could. Of course there are certain exceptions, for example MC spam might warrant multiple rune priests for jotww and so on. Also it is really hard to go wrong with a 100 pt priest due to the firepower that living lightning brings in comparison to similarly costed units, say rifleman dreads. That being said there is definitely a point of diminishing returns when building an all-comers list and IME more units/bodies usually trumps ICs.

 

On a vaguely related note, I cant tell you how often I lament that most HQs in 40k do not have access to heavy weapons! I am considering a house rule for this but still working on how to appropriately cost the weapons, any ideas?

[Pall Ironbear]

All the games I play are with a fluff based list. So for me, our ICs are worth the points because I want to play them.

 

A couple of days ago I played a 1500pts planet strike game against Nids. I took Bjorn as my only HQ, with a PC. He managed to survive 2 turns of cc against some monster nid with one hull point left. We were tied at 3 objectives each when Bjorn decided to get hot and blow himself to bits at the start of the 5th turn. Luckily all units were counted as objective takers, so a 12inch move from a weapon destroyed razor back claimed Bjorn's scorched hull. He won the game, with such an absolutely selfish act of self destruction, so I'd say in that case he was worth the points for me. :lol:

 

Otherwise, like Brom says, I'd only take ICs if they buff/bolster your force in some way that is only possible by taking them

[Wolf Guard Dan]

Well-played Iron Bear, well-played.

 

I have been going for my required Rune Priest and that is it. I like playing with Logan or Njal if it is a climatic battle though. Logan vs Ghazkul was cool. And Njal defending the last objective bunker from some Zoanthropes in a huge battle was pretty cool.

[eyeslikethunder]

I rarely field any characters worth more than 200pts (the one exception being my occasional use of a generic Thunderwolf Lord weighing in at ~275pts). I find that the extra bells and whistles of named characters just doesn't offset their cost over a generic unit of a simlar type.

Yeah this where I sit I just find the basic characters Sufficient and the Named Characters in our codex rarely worth their points.

The Thunderwolf lord is only normal character I find worth investing over 160pts in as he has the mobility and power to pay for himself. He also gives my TWC extra LD, Durability and hitting power.

[the jeske]

If a character ignores the rules of an edition for free like a rune staff does . It is good. When an HQ can pick up a pice of gear which more or less kills[were in 6th it should probably be called killed] 1 type of build , then the HQ is good [choser vs infiltration builds]. When an HQ does the same thing other sm HQs do for same or less points , but better it is good.

When a cheap HQ takes up 1/2 of an HQ slot , then even the worse of them are made ok [because other armies limited to 2 HQs cant take crapy ones].

 

when an HQ can be put in to an IG blob and its special rules were never ment to be used along side of them , nor for the edition played right now and the rules work ok . then the HQ is good , even if it costs a lot of points[njal].

 

If most loyalist can battlebrother this HQ and some can take them as non BB ally , but it buffs their counter/melee ablities and both the hq and the troops he brings are cheap and good , then the HQ is good.

[Panzerbjørn]

I would say that it depends on your list and your plans.

I like to run an all terminator list, so I have to take Logan.

 

I have also found that it depends on the points. If I'm having a 3000 point game against a friend, I'd probably load up on Njal, Logan, Arjac and Bjorn just for the Shock & Awe factor. At 1000 points I'd find it hard to field an all-TDA list.

[skeletoro]

Just to keep the conversation going:

 

A squad of grey hunters (with 2 flamers, a wolf standard, and mark of the wulfen) will kill 0.514 points worth of vanilla marines per point spent on the turn they pop their wolf standards and charge (though I've left overwatch out of the calculations to keep things simple).

 

A squad of grey hunters (same loadout) plus a rune priest with runic armour, manifesting prescience, will kill.... 0.514 points of vanilla marines per point spent. When the wolf standard is not in effect, the grey hunters alone do 0.401 and the grey hunters plus rune priest do 0.446. So, at least on the turn these grey hunters charge, the rune priest is paying his way, and then some. (I haven't done the calcs yet but I'm guessing the rune priest might not quite carry his weight when the grey hunters stand back and shoot).

 

That said, the rune priest COULD get challenged out, potentially. He'd annihilate the average sergeant, but won't crack 2+ saves.

 

Obviously, the rune priest might get lucky and randomly generate a better power. If the rune priest gets misfortune, the combined unit will deal 0.594 in the presence of the wolf standard and 0.458 without.