Zhukov Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 Hai there. So I decided to indeed go play Chaos (read: Nurgle) again and Chaos only. Bought most stuff today, rest will come next week. For the ones interested, this is the build I'm going to playtest first (yes I buy a complete army and then playtest it, I got a lot of confidence in my theorycrafting ;) ) : MoN Lord; Fist + Lclaw + Sigil + Bike 165 MoN Lord; Fist + Lclaw + Sigil + Bike 165 5 Spawn; MoN 180 5 Spawn; MoN 180 5 Plague Marines; 2x plasma 150 5 Plague Marines; 2x plasma 150 5 Plague Marines; 2x plasma 150 5 Plague Marines; 2x plasma 150 2 Obliterators; MoN 152 2 Obliterators; MoN 152 2 Obliterators; MoN 152 Total: 1746 Note: Didn't post this to get comments on, although you can ask me questions if you want, but not meant as an 'army list' post. Will make some battlereports whenever I get to play against top players of my country. I got myself some questions for you guys, maybe you can help me out. 1. Paintscheme. What do you suggest? I'm not a good painter, so preferably something not-too-difficult. Nurgle, same scheme for every unit. Maybe some guides you'd advice me? 2. Basing. Got any cool ideas for basing? It's oke if it costs a bit, money isn't really an issue. 3. Any conversion ideas? This mainly goes for the Chaos Lords on bikes and the Spawn (as long as it uses Spawn, bought the 10 Spawn already). (I like the Oblits and Plague Marines as they are) Thanks in advance :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/269125-aight-playing-chaos-again-questions/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Warrior w/ Servo Arm Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 Well, it's obviously a min-maxed tourney list. Good luck! In terms of paintscheme and conversions, it's up to you really. What about Nurgle did you like? I personally hate Nurgle, but I saw some amazing conversions in the WIP forums. Check them out. Edit: This is the link I mentioned Linky Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/269125-aight-playing-chaos-again-questions/#findComment-3278132 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azekai Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 Always glad to have another follower of the Plague God! The Cleaved scheme is fun and different. Nihm posted a on 'em a few months back, if I recall. . What did you buy to represent the Chaos Lords w/ bikes? Those can't be stock models . . . Spawn conversions are completely up to you, and the boxes offer lots of options for bits. Insect parts seem particularly Nurgly, though. A few plastic spider bits from the fantasy orcs n' goblins set might go a long way towards unique looking spawn. Other than that, green stuff buboes and seeping wounds can be added easily. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/269125-aight-playing-chaos-again-questions/#findComment-3278145 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snejk Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 How about going with a Grey-Green scheme? Starting with Celestra grey as base color, washing them with thrakka green and drybrush with Administratum grey and Skull white? And add some metallic details. Bolters go Boltgun Metal and washed with a watered down brown to add some rust effect. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/269125-aight-playing-chaos-again-questions/#findComment-3278146 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nehekhare Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 hm, not that many boots on the ground...not a fan of typhus' zombies I guess? how about a rusted paint scheme? http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2011/05/hob...st-effects.html or take your pick at the clinic Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/269125-aight-playing-chaos-again-questions/#findComment-3278152 Share on other sites More sharing options...
jb7090 Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 1. Paintscheme. What do you suggest? I'm not a good painter, so preferably something not-too-difficult. Nurgle, same scheme for every unit. Maybe some guides you'd advice me? 2. Basing. Got any cool ideas for basing? It's oke if it costs a bit, money isn't really an issue. Paint scheme thats quick and easy is primer white. Take some base green and thin it out and paint the armor. Thin some boltgun metal and paint the boltgun and bits. Maybe a couple other highlights, then dip it and spray it with a matte finish after it's dried 24-48 hours. I did my plague bearers like that and they look table top quality in a fraction of the time. Basing, take a look at the textured paint from GW. I used the blackfire earth, waited till it dried then washed it with ogryn flesh. Bam, done. Looks decent. For conversions, I used the vampire count dire wolves, glued some spikey Tyranid arms on them and put em on 40mm bases, bam chaos spawn. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/269125-aight-playing-chaos-again-questions/#findComment-3278232 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Excessus Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 Why spawn over bikes when you got bike lords? Why two bike lords instead of lord+sorc? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/269125-aight-playing-chaos-again-questions/#findComment-3278234 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 Maybe paint them a pale green with a brown wash and copper trim? Are you using the GW Citadel paints? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/269125-aight-playing-chaos-again-questions/#findComment-3278235 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lieutenant Steel Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 As someone who appreciates competitive play, I like the look of this army, though I would like to ask how you anticipate being able to handle enemy flyers or multiple enemy vehicles. Beyond that it looks good. I have seen a few good paint schemes recently on this forum for Nurgle followers, so it would be worth checking out the relevant sub-forums. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/269125-aight-playing-chaos-again-questions/#findComment-3278257 Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 Why spawn over bikes when you got bike lords? Why two bike lords instead of lord+sorc? a sorc would have no where to sit , if he is taking spawn . And from the set up and what we talked before I would say it is going to be an ignore X list . test phase army anyway , units set up may change. I would go for something different . no greens or browns , that is like almost all nurgle armies look like . Purple washed and etched brass with green highlights/chiped off paint . or the classic marble look , should do the list nice. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/269125-aight-playing-chaos-again-questions/#findComment-3278316 Share on other sites More sharing options...
zyl- Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 I think vehicle lists will be handled nicely there, but I'm also quite curious why you felt that spawn > nurgle bikers with melta/plasma. Also, why did you decide to go with all oblits rather than at least one havoc squad (and defense line), which seems to be very common these days. Lastly why no combi plasma on the champ if you are trying to get as much plasma spam as possible on the table? Sorry to not really answer your questions yet. If I were going to make those lords and bikes, I think I'd like to use a somewhat larger base and put him next to the bike, since it'd be quite awkward to try to model power fists or lightning claws to the handle bars. I'm not sure how strict you tend to be with WYSIWYG or base size, though. Another thought to try to get everything on the model and the same base as a bike would be to make it look like he's stopped to point something out or about to dive off the bike onto his next target. I guess cutting the handlebar guards off the bikes to fit the fists would work easier, but it's a little less fun. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/269125-aight-playing-chaos-again-questions/#findComment-3278378 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Nihm Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 Another idea for a scheme: link Very easy to achieve, looks spiffy (imho) and doesn't require mad painting skills. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/269125-aight-playing-chaos-again-questions/#findComment-3278649 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zhukov Posted January 4, 2013 Author Share Posted January 4, 2013 Thanks for all the ideas so far, keep them coming please! Especially ideas for the bases too. Imagine when you see me writing battlereports after winning tournaments and you see your ideas in reality on pictures :) Why spawn over bikes when you got bike lords? Why two bike lords instead of lord+sorc? Spawn are a 'meta' choice how people like to call it. They help out against 3 armies which I think I would otherwise trouble against: Daemons, Tyranids and Imperial Guard. (if anybody wants me to explaint his further, ask) 2nd Lord because they function pretty much like our Daemon Princes from 5th. They should also have very nice synergy with the Spawn. (They are a bit the opposite from Spawn in what they can kill well) Another reason for both choices is the fact that they can function on their own, as 4 seperate units. For sorcerers and bikes this is less so. As someone who appreciates competitive play, I like the look of this army, though I would like to ask how you anticipate being able to handle enemy flyers or multiple enemy vehicles. Fliers: I don't handle them, this list should be fine in ignoring them completely if wanted, simply because Fliers don't do much against me. I don't see the problem with multiple enemy vehicles, each and every unit in the army can hurt vehicles... Also, why did you decide to go with all oblits rather than at least one havoc squad (and defense line), which seems to be very common these days. Havocs would break up some strenghts of the list I feel: Everything is semi-mobile without losing firepower now, havocs are static. Nothing really runs the danger of getting instawhiped by some toys of certain codices either (Helldrakes, cryptek + deathmarks) and it's also the only unit not being able to defend itself in close combat at all. Other reasons are that I feel 6 lasscannons/multimeltas are the minimum amount this list needs. (this way I don't really háve to take melta elsewhere) Lastly why no combi plasma on the champ if you are trying to get as much plasma spam as possible on the table? I'm not, I try to get enough plasma on the table ^^ It's also a points thing, maybe if I had 40 points left I would have done it, who knows, but I have not. Maybe it will change after playtesting, I'm at least way more excited about this army than any other armies I built the last years, so that's nice ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/269125-aight-playing-chaos-again-questions/#findComment-3278698 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nehekhare Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 left to consider: 1 lord + 5 spawn = 2 baledragons Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/269125-aight-playing-chaos-again-questions/#findComment-3278705 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zhukov Posted January 4, 2013 Author Share Posted January 4, 2013 left to consider: 1 lord + 5 spawn = 2 baledragons You think I didn't consider that? :) hm, not that many boots on the ground...not a fan of typhus' zombies I guess? Forgot this one: I'm not a fan of typhus, that's more it. Zombies are oke. (although I'd only take them for objective camping, if I want blobs I'd ally Orks or Guard) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/269125-aight-playing-chaos-again-questions/#findComment-3278713 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nehekhare Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 But it would take a tactical genius to c... :) yeah for the blobs you have enough pts left for allies until 2k Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/269125-aight-playing-chaos-again-questions/#findComment-3278719 Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 You think I didn't consider that? yeah single spawn unit and single spawn doesnt work at all , just like single DP didnt work in 5th . may as well change the army to tyfus +zombis+3baledrakes+oblits , if one doesnt take 2 biker lords. the problem with havocks for me is that once you take them , you have to buy an aegis , then you start thinking about a cultists bubble wrap , then one unit dies too fast . and suddenly your army doesnt look the way you wanted . GW did the whole combine arms/unit doesnt work well alone thing before , didnt end well. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/269125-aight-playing-chaos-again-questions/#findComment-3278736 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zhukov Posted January 4, 2013 Author Share Posted January 4, 2013 I guess I could explain the choice of not going for Baledrakes (for now), as some might want to know this. Different reasons: 1. The helldrake itself has some limits. It's a bit of an extreme unit: Extremely good against some armies, while being not that good against others. I'm not a fan of this concept. None of my lists ever obliterated other lists. My lists tend to simply win, or at least aim at that. If you don't play against Marines then paying 170 points for a S6 flamer and some potential S7 hits on something ain't thát awesome. 2. Taking helldrakes means you have less units on the board, this is a biggy. The biggest reason actually. 5 Spawn + 1 Lord can be stopped, 10 spawn + 2 Lords in 1 turn? No way. It also most likely means that Obliterators and Plague Marines will be targeted earlier, as Helldrakes are either not there or require different kind of weaponry. Some armies can more easily afford having a part of their army off the board, I believe Chaos cannot really, the whole concept is rather tight I feel. The list relies on having a lot of hard to remove stuff on the board. Reserving 340 points makes it a lot easier for the oppenent to do significant harm to the army which is on the board. 3. Reserve rolls without manipulation will :cuss you up once and a while, I don't like this. I try to exclude as much crucial dice-rolls from a list as possible to a certain extent. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/269125-aight-playing-chaos-again-questions/#findComment-3278738 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ammonius Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 I am interested to see what that Army list does. I run 10 spawn, and love 'em. Here is a color scheme idea: Blue Cheese. Prime Black, drybrush grey/white, sponge on several shades of greenish blue, do the detail work. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/269125-aight-playing-chaos-again-questions/#findComment-3278901 Share on other sites More sharing options...
RolandTHTG Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 Thanks for all the ideas so far, keep them coming please! Especially ideas for the bases too. Imagine when you see me writing battlereports after winning tournaments and you see your ideas in reality on pictures :huh: Why spawn over bikes when you got bike lords? Why two bike lords instead of lord+sorc? Spawn are a 'meta' choice how people like to call it. They help out against 3 armies which I think I would otherwise trouble against: Daemons, Tyranids and Imperial Guard. (if anybody wants me to explaint his further, ask) 2nd Lord because they function pretty much like our Daemon Princes from 5th. They should also have very nice synergy with the Spawn. (They are a bit the opposite from Spawn in what they can kill well) Another reason for both choices is the fact that they can function on their own, as 4 seperate units. For sorcerers and bikes this is less so. For bases, what are you going for? Urban? Battlefield? Forrest? And sure, we'll take wisdom and strategy on how to use this army. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/269125-aight-playing-chaos-again-questions/#findComment-3279238 Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexBware Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 Your list is illegal. You can't have sigil and a bike - only one of the two. You need to take aura instead - also frees up 20 pts :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/269125-aight-playing-chaos-again-questions/#findComment-3280366 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hazath Posted January 12, 2013 Share Posted January 12, 2013 Your list is illegal. You can't have sigil and a bike - only one of the two. You need to take aura instead - also frees up 20 pts He can actually. Its one of each. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/269125-aight-playing-chaos-again-questions/#findComment-3280367 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zhukov Posted January 14, 2013 Author Share Posted January 14, 2013 Sup. Small update, because of course people are interested in my thoughts (if not, at least it helps ordering my thoughts huehue): Builded pretty much the whole army and already played with it too. (some proxies, acceptable against friends eh) Not decided ont he paint scheme yet. Basicly: Not including at least 1 helldrake is silly, the more now with Dark Angels and so the potential increase in bikes. 2 would be better, but ugh, never enough points eh? Other thoughts: Spawn are nice, but sticking Bike Lords in them is kind of silly. Of course one can see this on paper already, but I wanted to see how it worked on the table: Not being able to run/use fleet with the Spawn is stupid. It's the difference often between a turn 2 and a turn 3 charge. Spawn wont survive 3 turns of shooting Don't like the CC Lords setup I used that much. In the end they're just not that devastating. They can kill most targets, but it's not efficient and they're not survivable enough on their own. (Obviously they need a bodyguard, so you'd want to play it with Bikes. Which seems oke and I might play with that a bit in the future: Bike Lord + 3-5 Bikes are retinue, and taking that twice. (I preffer 2 smaller 'deathstars' over 1 bigger one) As I don't feel I really need a "killer Lord" (We got CC built-in due to PM's and Oblits), might just as well compensate for the lack of a 2nd Helldrake by just giving him the Brand and not much else. Oblits are fine, but pretty much need VotLW, upping their cost which sucks: Ld8 is silly. Ld9 is a lot better. I dabbled with taking them in singles, but meh, have to use allies then to compensate for the lack of firepower, I don't want that. Regarding Plague Marines I'm not sure yet, 5 man just isn't quite enough. I feel it needs 6 at the minimum, although 7 or 8 would be optimal. I basicly forgot that dice don't always work out averge (which is stupid as I'm good with probability): 5 man sometimes get whiped cause of some weird dice rolls. (enemy wound too much, you fail too much, you're dead) 6-8 man is a bit more stable. Basicly I want to play 1850 so I can include a bit more Plague Marines (include 1 extra for each squad, or 2 extra spawn and 1 plague for the 5 man squad), list atm looks like this: MoN Lord; Bike, Brand, claw 145 4 Spawn; MoN 144 4 Spawn; MoN 144 Helldrake 170 6 Plague marines; 2x plasma 174 6 Plague marines; 2x plasma 174 6 Plague marines; 2x plasma 174 5 Plague marines; 2x plasma 150 2 Oblits; MoN, VotLW 158 2 Oblits; MoN, VotLW 158 2 Oblits; MoN, VotLW 158 Total: 1750 It's solid and I don't feel the need to try out much other units, this codex is not interesting enough for that. Basicly I would end up spending a lot of money for a complete different build, while it wont even change the playstyle that much and just weakens the list. But I knew that and it's why I started Chaos again in the first place: To have 1 solid list which I like. Few models, so it plays quick and doesn't take too long to paint. Maybe a new Daemon dex will shake some things up, who knows. (Atm i don't see why one wouldnt want to include Screamers and Flamers to his CSM, but out of fear of it getting 'fixed' soon I don't) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/269125-aight-playing-chaos-again-questions/#findComment-3282615 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nehekhare Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 sounds like it didn't work out that well, sad to hear that, as I liked the look of it on paper. I bumped into the same problem, desperately looking for a role for the mandatory MoN Lord. where's the bike retinue? and it's 1749. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/269125-aight-playing-chaos-again-questions/#findComment-3282678 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zhukov Posted January 14, 2013 Author Share Posted January 14, 2013 sounds like it didn't work out that well, sad to hear that, as I liked the look of it on paper. Nah, it's pretty good, but that's not enough for me. It's gotta feel 'just right' for me, 'perfect' if you want. I bumped into the same problem, desperately looking for a role for the mandatory MoN Lord. Oh I don't find it that annoying, the Brand is pretty good. It's not like the Deamon Prince from the previous dex which I loved to take, but it's k. where's the bike retinue? and it's 1749. Nowhere lol, not needed for this list, he hangs out with a PM squad. (normally the 5 man squad) And yes it's not 1750, but I sometimes write 1750 when it's a list with a 1750 point limit. Dunno why actually. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/269125-aight-playing-chaos-again-questions/#findComment-3282687 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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