UltraTacSgt Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 I am fairly new to 40k and have been slowly building my SM army. I'm up to about 1300pts, mostly infantry; the only armor I have is a single rhino and two speeders (if you can really call that armor). I am entertaining the idea of collecting some armor for my force. My army is mid range infantry shooting at the moment, with Tacs/Sterns/Tac Terms/Devs/Librarian/Captain/Assault Marines/Scouts/Typhoon Speeders. I can change around heavy/special weapons to make my infantry better vs armor or infantry as needed. I want my armor to be complementary to my force and not the main attraction. Between Vindicators, Predators, Dreads, and TFC's. Which would be most effective in a footslogging infantry based force, without drawing so much attention that they get slagged first turn. Or maybe having them be fire magnets would help my infantry survive long enough to get the job done. I know this is a pretty vague question, but what are some general tips/theories/strategies a rookie player should keep in mind about putting armor in their list? Dreads w/ LC/ML or Rifleman? Double Vindi's advancing behind an infantry line. Double Preds sitting at 36inches and firing away? Based on your experience playing as SM or against SM; is it all about finding the balance in the list, or are there some things that just tend to work while other things tend to fail? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/269141-working-armor-into-a-csm-list/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkGuard Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 Looking at your list, Vindicators or Preds would be better. If you're not running a lot of armour, you want something that can consistently present a front armour of 13. The tank that finds this the easiest is the Pred, as it can sit away from the action, and not worry too much about exposing side armour, as your opponent will find it hard to target the side armour. The Vindicator will more readily expose side armour, but its firepower could be more valuable in your list. Overall, it depends on your playstyle and the other weapons in your list, what is your army list at the moment, post it here. :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/269141-working-armor-into-a-csm-list/#findComment-3278409 Share on other sites More sharing options...
UltraTacSgt Posted January 4, 2013 Author Share Posted January 4, 2013 The basic idea behind the list I'm using is: Captain - RB/AA/JP Assault Marines - LC/MB storm shield as points allow Tac Marines - MM/PG combi as points allow Tac Marines - LC/FL combi as points allow Sniper Scouts - HB cloaks as points allow Devastators - usually 4xML sometimes extra bodies or a single LC, trying to make up my mind on these guys Sternguard - 5 man, usually 3-5 combi's Tac Terms - 5 man, Assault cannon/chainfist Speeders - 2xTyphoons List isn't set in stone, I change things up and proxy from time to time but the idea is usually the same. Scouts/devs/tac combat squad sit back and hold objectives/shoot, stern/tacs/capt/assault move up and take objectives/kill, Tac Terms DS or march up as the situation demands, speeders shoot and scoot. Non-armor related observations/critiques are welcomed. Seems like some armor would give opponents some target priority issues. I can see a dread walking up with the forward element for a fire magnet and to provide cover, or maybe podding in an Ironclad w/ a teleport homer to give the Tac Terms something to drop in on. Two vindicators following the troops could draw fire and help smash the enemy line wherever we meet. Or two Predators could sit back w/ the objective campers and shoot away. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/269141-working-armor-into-a-csm-list/#findComment-3278512 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkGuard Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 Well you've got armour already, those two Typhoons. So I'd definitely look to get some scary AV 13 stuff in if you want them to live, a couple of combi-preds will help with anti-tank, but so will Vindicators. Both will fit into the list so I'd choose the one you like the most. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/269141-working-armor-into-a-csm-list/#findComment-3278785 Share on other sites More sharing options...
YAK Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 is your heart set on armour? i think your list would nicely fit some bikers..... also for armour i'd say a short range land raider and vindi would add some pressure to your up field units.... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/269141-working-armor-into-a-csm-list/#findComment-3278998 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkGuard Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 If he wants the Speeders to survive past Turn 1, more armour will be needed. Right now there's one target for anti-tank weapons, and they're pretty fragile, even with Jink. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/269141-working-armor-into-a-csm-list/#findComment-3279031 Share on other sites More sharing options...
UltraTacSgt Posted January 4, 2013 Author Share Posted January 4, 2013 Correct me if I am wrong, but this is the way I imagine the difference between Vindicators and Predators. Predator - more versatile if i magnetize to fit different lists, Auto/Las can threaten armor and bigger targets w/ a decent enough anti infantry punch as backup, Dakka is cheap as dirt and can threaten anything light and give weight of fire. Predators can sit back at long range and shoot making it easier to keep the AV13 front towards threats. Vindicator - rowdy s10 ap2 large blast can hurt anything, provides a psychological element to a game by worrying my opponent and making them adjust to deal with the vindicator, has to get closer so more chance for it to end up exposing its weak side armor. Is there any sense in getting one of each (1 Pred/1 Vindi)? Or are they best left in pairs? How about one dakka pred and one combi pred? Yak - I've been pretty seriously considering bikers, I decided on speeders for pure damage output. Though I am considering a biker captain if I don't like the jump captain. Just working with the models I have at the moment. Not sure if bikers could provide the punch that armor could. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/269141-working-armor-into-a-csm-list/#findComment-3279144 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ming Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 UltraTac - Overall, the best philosophy is to collect what interests you best! A collection provides you with the tools to be flexible over time. I'd recommend you get 2 rhino/razor kits first to add to your collection, because with the change of a few pieces you can have either. 6th edition is a tough game if you have no transport. Hint - try las-plas razors or the TLAC Razors...both are awesome as light tanks. The TLAC razor is a bit better in a backup AA role (rerolls misses and rending are good buffs) After that, it is your choice on the vindi or pred conundrum. Frankly I rarely use the vindi, but I only have 1. Theorists will tell you 2 of something is an order of magnitude better than 1. If I had 2 vindicators, and used them alot, many opponents would have a toughh game of it. More often than not, I use a AC/LC pred, with the role of tank busting at long range. If I added another pred, it would be the HB (dakka) variant. Lastly, a pod (for the sternguard....) As others stated above, everything ultimately depends on your play style and local meta. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/269141-working-armor-into-a-csm-list/#findComment-3279183 Share on other sites More sharing options...
YAK Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 Untill recently i only had one pred and one vindi... both are nice.. both have a use... and the pred is rather easy to magnetize. my biker captain has been kicking a$$ and taking names since i finished him.... not to mention making saves all over the place.... i'll also echo recomending the rhino/razor kit. two transpot tanks and a pod for your sternguard would nicely take your list above to near 1500. then any big killy armour you add to your list after that will take heat off your transports. ohoh or get two preds... i fully magnetized the last one a made so i can field it as pred, razor(if you have the bits to make a turret) and a rhino. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/269141-working-armor-into-a-csm-list/#findComment-3279266 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkGuard Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 Correct me if I am wrong, but this is the way I imagine the difference between Vindicators and Predators. Predator - more versatile if i magnetize to fit different lists, Auto/Las can threaten armor and bigger targets w/ a decent enough anti infantry punch as backup, Dakka is cheap as dirt and can threaten anything light and give weight of fire. Predators can sit back at long range and shoot making it easier to keep the AV13 front towards threats. Vindicator - rowdy s10 ap2 large blast can hurt anything, provides a psychological element to a game by worrying my opponent and making them adjust to deal with the vindicator, has to get closer so more chance for it to end up exposing its weak side armor. Is there any sense in getting one of each (1 Pred/1 Vindi)? Or are they best left in pairs? How about one dakka pred and one combi pred? Spot on there. Now which one do you prefer? I like the Vindicators as they make awesome bullet magnets, but you said you'd prefer for them not to do this, so maybe Preds would be better. I wouldn't do one of each unless you were completely certain of the role they were filling in your army. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/269141-working-armor-into-a-csm-list/#findComment-3279366 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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