Ardent Blade Question

[AlphaErix]

I'm sorry if I'm posting this in the wrong area and I'm sure since I'm posting this in the Sisters of Battle section it's a question that has come up often but I was unable to locate an answer using the search function.

 

My question is, when firing using the Ardent Blade, will you still always wound on a 4+ or lower?

The reason I ask is because the Ardent Blade doesn't state that it always wounds on a 4+ only in close combat. It just states that in addition to being a power weapon with that special ability, it can also fire a Strength 5 AP 4 Template.

 

The Ardent Blade: This is a power weapon that always wounds enemies on a 4+ (unless a lower roll would be required) In addition, it can fire in the Shooting phase with the following profile: Range: Template Strength: 5 AP: 4 Type: Assault 1

 

I tried to get an answer from GW but haven't had any luck.

[*Furyou Miko]

I was about to answer negatively on reflex, but I can't actually think of a reason why. It's just one of those things that "seems obvious".

 

I'd say 'no' because other ranged weapons with melee profiles (like needle pistols) don't convey their 2+ Poisoned status to their use as melee weapons, but this is the other way round.

[AlphaErix]

The problem I've had is that there is no definitive answer provided by GW.

[derpasaurus]

i'm tempted to say yes, because in the case of, say, huron blackheart with the tyrant's claw...

 

it is a claw with shred, and has a built in heavy flamer. because it states that the flamer is built in to the claw, (and thus part of the claw) and the claw has shred, so does the flamer. at least that's the conclusion we've come to at my FLGS.

 

regarding celestine, it says the weapon always wounds on a 4 unless a lower roll is needed, and the weapon has a template attack as well for use in shooting. i take this to mean that the template attack also will always wound on a 4 as well. but it's also slightly less of an issue because it's s5 so you'll wound anything t5 or less on a 4 or less anyway, whereas celestine is only s3 so even for meqs she'd need 5s to wound in combat without the rule, but the template's strength would still wound even on 3s.

 

having said that, i can also see why it would be no, because it doesn't specifically mention any USR. for example, the sword is not listed as "poisoned," it simply states that she will always wound on a 4 unless a lower roll is required, even tho that is what "poisoned" does.

[greatcrusade08]

ive always erred on the side of fairness with this one.

the sword has 4+ wound in CC, and the heavy flamer is merely a heavy flamer.

my opponents cant claim im interpreting rules for gain then.

[AlphaErix]

Until I get some sort of conclusive answer I will probably ere on the side of caution as well and not count it towards the flamer, but I still want to know because I don't like playing with weapons I can't explain and since this is pretty open ended, I want to find out.

 

To be honest, I'm surprised this hasn't come up before now and that GW hasn't addressed it yet.

[CommissarHarris]

To be honest, I'm surprised this hasn't come up before now and that GW hasn't addressed it yet.

 

Welcome to the most Forgotten Army in the GrimDark! GW should get around to addressing it some time in 7th Ed when they release a new range of resculpt metals which are just head swaps of old models.

[Hymirl]

No. The 4+ applies when using it as a power weapon. If you're firing it as a heavy flamer you're not using it as a power weapon that wounds on a 4+, you're using it as a heavy flamer.

 

The example with Huron is also wrong, you can't mix and match rules even though they're built in together. It's not like a combi-melta makes the boltgun shots use the melta rule is it?

 

This is simply a case of wishful thinking.

[Jacinda]

I would not be so hasty there. "Always wounds." GW typically makes a point to specify if it is for shooting only or close combat only.

 

 

In practice it seldom makes a difference but with the new Dark Angels knights on bikes (assuming I am hearing the rumors correctly) you may be seeing a few more T6 models soon.

[andrewm9]

Guys check the FAQ on this one.

 

White Dwarf, August 2011, Page 103 – Saint Celestine, The Ardent Blade.

Change the first sentence to read “This is a power sword that always wounds enemies on a 4+ (unless a lower roll would be required).”

 

That should clear things up.

[Jacinda]

The only thing that changed with the errata is the word "weapon" is replaced by "sword,"

[derpasaurus]

yeah. i did some digging of my own, double/triple checking, and asking around. seems we've all come to the same conclusion, and we've even gone so far as to mutually reverse our ruling on my example with huron, too. flamers is flamers. which is sad, in a way. but whatever. cant' win em all. lol

[Jacinda]

I honestly think that is the way it was intended. In close combat it is a sword that wounds on a 4+ (she is only S3 so the poison help immensely) but in ranged, it is a flamer that wounds normally. The rules are always filled with little obfuscations and since this is so close and would actually matter so seldom that if I had an opponent that wanted to count the flamer as wounding on a 4+, I would let them.

[Warsmith Aznable]

The entry for the Ardent Blade says that it is a Power Weapon that always wounds on a 4+, then goes on to say that "in addition, it can fire in the Shooting Phase with the following profile..." (emphasis added)

 

Since it states specifically that it fires "with the following profile", I would say that clearly separates it from the 4+ wounding of the melee profile.

[AlphaErix]

As I said in my earlier post, I don't plan to use the always wound on a 4+ rule towards the flamer unless GW actually states it. This was just something I was curious about since it came up in a discussion between some of my friends. Sorry for the long delay in my reply.