DA alpha strike

[dswanick]

I wonder how much of this argument over Reserves actual hinges on players not wanting their DWA units subject to Interceptor andj I've Been Expecting You shooting...

[banis]

They are arriving from reserve. Otherwise they can't follow the rules for deepstriking..

 

And really in 40k if it is not on the board or in reserve.. It is dead:)

 

Whether or not they follow the rules for 50% in reserve i could see arguments for both cases being valid.

 

But The RAW and the RAI for me goes towards them being able to ignore the 50% reserve limit.

[Castillo]

Just wanted to point out: Pg36 40k Rulebook

"Some units must arrive via deep strike. They ALWAYS begin the game in reserve"

 

 

Maybe you have just pointed out the key to this mistery... By the time you deploy your army your DWA units are units that MUST arrive via DS. According to the standard rules that might be the reason why they don't count towards the 50%. After all when choosing what you leave in reserves when deploying those units are not chosen, they are units that MUST arrive via DS like a Dropod.

 

You're misreading that quote. That quoted rule doesnt say all Deep Strike unit are in Reserve nor does it say Deep Striker Deep Striking are in Reserve. It simply stated if a unit must arrive by Deep Strike, then some condition follow. Since DWA has no "must arrive by Deep Strike", the condition doesn't apply.

 

Also, as quoted in somewhere in this thread is the rule on DWA, DWA "arrive via Deep Strike" is interpreted as place model, scatter, ring em -- just like every other rules that say "arrive via Deep Strike". DWA doesn't say DWA is Deep Strike. To say all the condition in Deep Strike apply to DWA is slicing it thin.

Yes it does apply, once you have determined which units go into DWA (Before Deploying) those units must arrive via DS (as stated in DWA) so when Deployment cames (There and only then is when you state which units you leave in reserves) those units already must arrive via DS so all the following things to that statement (not counting for the number held in reserve and being able to do so even when the mission doesn't allow reserves) would apply.

 

Read again the two first paragraphs of page 36. (not counting the epigraph and fluff).

First paragraph can be actually ignored since DWA specifically says they arrive via DS so no checking those conditions, codex trumps rulebook.

Second paragraph goes to explain about the units that must arrive via DS (it does say regardless of conditions or always or nothing like that it just talks about units that must, units chosen for DWA must arrive via DS they are not chosen for reserves and declared to enter via DS, they are chosen for a different rule that happens before reserves and forces them to come via DS). It declares how those units (the ones that must arrive via DS) don't count towards how many you can put in reserve even though they will be put in reserve. And also says that they can do this even in missions that don't use the reserves rule (It also mentions the fact that this applies for embarked units, I don't know why people keep saying that this in the drop pods comes from the faq's when is in the rulebook)

Then go to page 124 and read the paragraph before the last one, epigraph "Preparing Reserves"

Make note of when it happens "When deploying their armies" at that point the units chosen for DWA are units that MUST arrive via DS, hence that MUST start in reserves (as per the second paragraph of page 36) so once again we are told not to count them for the purpose of how many units can be held in reserve.

And just in case you don't find why this timing is important...

Take a look at page 122 where you first Determine Warlord Traits (after this DWA units are chosen) and THEN Deploy Forces (is during this step that reserves are declared and by then DWA units are units that MUST arrive by DS).

Only possible option would be to say that since "Determine Warlord Traits" is under the Deployment epigraph the reserves reference to "When deploying their armies" would apply even before we start the Deploy Forces... but if you read the bold statement under "Deployment" it says "determine your Warlord traits and deploy the armies" differentiating both steps and using the same naming as the reserves rule about deploying the armies

 

If you can find weak points in this please point them out cause I don't find them and please avoid arguments like "this other rule unrelated but similar" or "but it clearly is meant for"

[BigGumbo]

Just to clarify: the reserves rule doesn't specify WHEN you choose not to deploy. I would guess that most people make this choice well before deployment. I know I do...

 

Please quote the rule that it doesn't specify WHEN.

 

The rule I thought was in question is pg 124 small rulebook "When deploying their armies, players can choose not to deploy" which expressed the WHEN part.

OK, my bad for making a declarative statement without the BGB to hand. Apologies.

 

However, you haven't pointed out where my earlier argument falls down. Is there a flaw there? If so, where?

 

Thought I did. Your argument is the determination of not deploying is made at all points in the game process; in other word, declaring DWA immediately after the Warlord Traits determination is the decision to not deploy.

 

I quite explicitly said that there are now multiple decision points, so it is not "the" decision not to deploy but rather "a" decision not to deploy. A unit that MUST be kept in reserve is one that could not, under any circumstances, be placed on the table during deployment - i.e. you never CHOOSE not to deploy it, because you could never CHOOSE to deploy it. If the DWA special rule FORCED these units to make a Deathwing Assault, clearly they would be outside the scope of the 50% reserves rule as you would not be able to deploy them normally under any circumstances. My understanding is that the DWA rule allows these units to make a DWA, rather than forcing them to, so they could be deployed normally and are therefore within the scope of the 50% consideration.

 

Your argument is that the codex overrides the BGB in that it creates a new class of non-reserved, non-deployed units called DWA; even though the codex does not at any point explicitly override the reserves rule except for the statement that DWA units do not roll for reserves (which another poster has quite reasonably argued is an implication that the rest of the reserves rule DOES apply to DWA units). You cannot then support this argument by appealing to the order of things as defined in the BGB, since the codex has already overridden the BGB by adding a new decision step as well (i.e. choose DWA units before determining Warlord Traits).

 

I could add at this point the suggestion that your DWA argument therefore only works if you aren't using named characters in your army, since these all have their own predefined Warlord Traits so you skip the Determine Warlord Traits step altogether. If there's no Determine Warlord Traits step, then clearly nothing can be done before that step. However, I'm not a WAAC, RAW-maniac rules lawyer, so I won't suggest this as an actual argument.

 

My counter argument is the wording of the rule stated "when deploying your armies", which the mini-rulebooks also spell out when that is. It occurs after determining warlord traits, after generating psychic power, after rolling for who goes first, only then does one deploys one entire army. At this point of deploying one entire army is where the reserve kick in. At this point, DWA no longer have the option to start on the table, so is it ignored?

 

So you agree that the reserves rule is referring to your entire army, in which case why are you continuing to make the case that DWA units are somehow outside the scope of "your entire army" for determining how many units can be put into reserve?

[Cactus]

I don't feel that the 50% rule is time-limited.

 

The 50% rule only kick in when deploying army. see my quote of the reserve rule above.

Sorry, I didn't make myself very clear. I agree with on when you make the count of units in reserve and check the 50% limit. What I mean is that each unit's status as one that "must start the game in reserve", or not, is set by it's entry in the codex and not by any changes in state such as choosing to make a Deathwing Assault.

[CheezeFezt]

I quite explicitly said that there are now multiple decision points, so it is not "the" decision not to deploy but rather "a" decision not to deploy. A unit that MUST be kept in reserve is one that could not, under any circumstances, be placed on the table during deployment - i.e. you never CHOOSE not to deploy it, because you could never CHOOSE to deploy it. If the DWA special rule FORCED these units to make a Deathwing Assault, clearly they would be outside the scope of the 50% reserves rule as you would not be able to deploy them normally under any circumstances. My understanding is that the DWA rule allows these units to make a DWA, rather than forcing them to, so they could be deployed normally and are therefore within the scope of the 50% consideration.

 

It's your contention that if one declares DWA unit, that these units may still be deployed on the table normally?

 

DWA "All units making the Deathwing Assault automatically arrive via Deep Strike at the start of the chosen turn." Doesn't read like one have the option to not make a Deathwing Assault.

 

 

Your argument is that the codex overrides the BGB in that it creates a new class of non-reserved, non-deployed units called DWA;

 

My argument is there are no such rules as a class of "deployed" and not deployed = "reserve". As had been requested many time, please quote the specific rules. Since there are no such rules, there's nothing to override.

 

even though the codex does not at any point explicitly override the reserves rule

 

Nothing to override. DWA doesn't say put units in Reserve, so why would one apply Reserve rule to DWA?

 

except for the statement that DWA units do not roll for reserves (which another poster has quite reasonably argued is an implication that the rest of the reserves rule DOES apply to DWA units).

 

Or it could just as reasonable interpeted as saying deploying the DWA before rolling for reserve.

 

You cannot then support this argument by appealing to the order of things as defined in the BGB, since the codex has already overridden the BGB by adding a new decision step as well (i.e. choose DWA units before determining Warlord Traits).

 

Huh? Lost your reasoning here.

 

 

I could add at this point the suggestion that your DWA argument therefore only works if you aren't using named characters in your army, since these all have their own predefined Warlord Traits so you skip the Determine Warlord Traits step altogether.

 

Just because the traits of named characters are specified doesn't means there are no Determine Warlord Traits.

 

If there's no Determine Warlord Traits step, then clearly nothing can be done before that step.

 

DWA is after Determine Warlord Traits. If you're stating that DWA can't occur after said null Determine Warlords step, then one would also skip Generate Psychic Power and also skip Deploy Forces, all of which occur after said null Determine Warlords step.

 

However, I'm not a WAAC, RAW-maniac rules lawyer, so I won't suggest this as an actual argument.

 

If you would like to devolve to personal attack, please leave me out of it.

 

So you agree that the reserves rule is referring to your entire army, in which case why are you continuing to make the case that DWA units are somehow outside the scope of "your entire army" for determining how many units can be put into reserve?

 

Can you deploy DWA units during the Deploy Armies step? The "Deploy Armies" steps said deploys your entire armies. The Reserve rule said you may choose not to deploy up to 50%. DWA are already gone by this step, so what's there to choose not to deploy DWA?

 

Of course, you still haven't addressed my other question.

 

Can one still DWA if a mission does not have the Reserve rule? I quoted the DWA rule many times already, so won't requote again. Please read the text and tell me if DWA can be used even if mission doesn't have Reserve.

[cielaq]

CheezeFezt - the thing is it's entirely optional to assign units to DWA, there is no rule to force you to do it.

If you are able to choose one of the options, you are not forced to choose the other one.

[CheezeFezt]

I don't feel that the 50% rule is time-limited.

The 50% rule only kick in when deploying army. see my quote of the reserve rule above.

Sorry, I didn't make myself very clear. I agree with on when you make the count of units in reserve and check the 50% limit. What I mean is that each unit's status as one that "must start the game in reserve", or not, is set by it's entry in the codex and not by any changes in state such as choosing to make a Deathwing Assault.

 

While I agree with you, I don't see a valid counter. There are no such rule as to when "must start the game in reserve" is determine. So while I believe it's the intention the timing should be at the army list level, I can't counter that the determination is at the deploy army step.

 

If a DWA unit can not deploy during the Deploy Army step, then I can't counter that it should count toward the limit.

 

A regular Deathwing Terminator may choose at the Deploy Army step to set up normally or choose to not deploy. A DWA does not have that choice.

 

Put it another way, this is reaching for intention so I'm going down a very slippery slope, if the DWA were worded, "during deployment, if one choose not to deploy, then one can declare this unit is making a Deathwing Assault", then it's pretty clear the intention. But DWA is not written that way. It clearly break the regular pattern of the BRB by inserting the declaration in between warlord traits & deployment. Whether that's poor rule writing or intentional override, I can't say.

[CheezeFezt]

CheezeFezt - the thing is it's entirely optional to assign units to DWA, there is no rule to force you to do it. If you are able to choose one of the options, you are not forced to choose the other one.

 

But the timing is different. DWA is declared before Deploy Army whereas the decision to not deploy (keep in reserve) is made during the Deploy Army. Is it significant? Well, that's what the argument is about.

[MrSocks]

In Reserve, Not in Reserve ... That's not really the point, is it?

 

This is actually important. I know the BRB Eternal War missions all uses Reserve, but there are GW missions out there which don't. If Deathwing Assault make uses of Reserve, then in those mission which don't have Reserve, then one can't DWA like one can't Deep Strike.

 

 

Reading the rule, one can't tell the intent. Should one be able to DWA in those mission without Reserve? If you go by the exact wording, then yes, one simply declare which unit are DWA (eg they are not put in Reserve). If one can DWA without Reserve rule in play, then the 50% question is moot since DWA don't make use of the Reserve rule.

 

Terminator Armour Rules:

"They may always start the game in reserve and arrive using the deep strike rules even if it is not part of the mission being played"

 

So Depending on which camp you're in, that affects you in different ways.

 

 

I'm squarely in the camp that Deathwing are in reserves during the game (because where else can they be, there is no explicit mention of this and all other units in the game tend to be either in reserve or on the board unless explicitly stated (not sure if there are any that are)). However I think the rule is intended to allow you to deep strike your entire Deathwing Army in, hence I would have to agree that the 50% rule does not effect them as by the time they reach deployment they MUST deploy via deepstrike, I know its very rules lawyerish however it kinda fits wit the fluff.

[Harleqvin]

The only thing that truly needs to be stated is this.

Deathwing Assault: Units entirely composed of models that have both this special rule and Terminator Armor can choose to make a Deathwing Assault. Immediately after determining Warlord Trait, tell your opponent which units are making a Deathwing Assault, and make a secret note of whether it takes place during your first or second turn. All units making the Deathwing Assault automatically arrive via Deep Strike at the start of the chosen turn - there is no need to roll for reserves.

 

All these units are being chosen before the Deploy Forces section that happens after choosing Determine Warlord Trait section. Which the deploy section is when you choose who is being held in reserve. Also in the BGB it states that models who arrive by Deep Strike do so from Reserve.

 

Yes the DW are in reserve but they are not being chosen to be in Reserve in the normal way. They are being forced to Deploy by Deep Stirke, Which if you arrive from Deep Strike you arrive from Reserve.

 

The Deathwing units that are being put into Deathwing Assault are being done so before the normal time for placing models into Reserve which is in the Deploy Forces section after Determine Warlord Trait.

 

Because of this distinction that says Deathwing Assault is done Immediately after Determine Warlord Trait, it is forcing them to be held in reserve. Keep in mind this is only the Units that are doing the Deathwing Assault.

 

 

Sorry this took me so long to give my answer but i had only just last night gotten a copy of C:DA so i can see the exact wording of Deathwing Assault.

 

 

So furthering:

Yes, models doing Deathwing Assault are coming from Reserve because they are Deep Striking.

No. Models doing the Deathwing Assault are not counted for 50% allowed Reserves because they are being forced to be in Reserve before the Reserves rule happens in the Deploy Forces Section when Reserves are normally done. This is because it happens Immediately after Determine Warlord trait section which would then be before Deploy Forces section.

[MrSocks]

The only thing that truly needs to be stated is this.

Deathwing Assault: Units entirely composed of models that have both this special rule and Terminator Armor can choose to make a Deathwing Assault. Immediately after determining Warlord Trait, tell your opponent which units are making a Deathwing Assault, and make a secret note of whether it takes place during ypur first or second turn. All units making the Deathwing Assault automatically arrive via Deep Strike at the start of the chosen turn - there is no need to roll for reserves.

 

All these units are being chosen before the Deploy Forces section that happens after choosing Determine Warlord Trait section. Which the deploy section is when you choose who is being held in reserve. Also in the BGB it states that models who arrive by Deep Strike do so from Reserve.

 

Yes the DW are in reserve but they are not being chosen to be in Reserve in the normal way. They are being forced to Deploy by Deep Stirke, Which if you arrive from Deep Strike you arrive from Reserve.

 

The Deathwing units that are being put into Deathwing Assault are being done so before the normal time for placing models into Reserve which is in the Deploy Forces section after Determine Warlord Trait.

 

Because of this distinction that says Deathwing Assault is done Immediately after Determine Warlord Trait, it is forcing them to be held in reserve. Keep in mind this is only the Units that are doing the Deathwing Assault.

 

 

Sorry this took me so long to give my answer but i had only just last night gotten a copy of C:DA so i can see the exact wording of Deathwing Assault.

 

 

So furthering:

Yes, models doing Deathwing Assault are coming from Reserve because they are Deep Striking.

No. Models doing the Deathwing Assault are not counted for 50% allowed Reserves because they are being forced to be in Reserve before the Reserves rule happens in the Deploy Forces Section when Reserves are normally done. This is because it happens Immediately after Determine Warlord trait section which would then be before Deploy Forces section.

 

If there was a like button....I'd like this. (It doesn't seem to be working for me). I'm glad someone finally quoted the full rule and not just parts of it in their answer.

[Harleqvin]

I would like yours, too, but it hasn't been allowing anyone to have any allowances of likes to be used to like things.

I would say this is one of the few instances where it shouldn't be a problem stating a whole rule as it is the very basis of the debate and all.

[BigGumbo]

I quite explicitly said that there are now multiple decision points, so it is not "the" decision not to deploy but rather "a" decision not to deploy. A unit that MUST be kept in reserve is one that could not, under any circumstances, be placed on the table during deployment - i.e. you never CHOOSE not to deploy it, because you could never CHOOSE to deploy it. If the DWA special rule FORCED these units to make a Deathwing Assault, clearly they would be outside the scope of the 50% reserves rule as you would not be able to deploy them normally under any circumstances. My understanding is that the DWA rule allows these units to make a DWA, rather than forcing them to, so they could be deployed normally and are therefore within the scope of the 50% consideration.

 

It's your contention that if one declares DWA unit, that these units may still be deployed on the table normally?

 

DWA "All units making the Deathwing Assault automatically arrive via Deep Strike at the start of the chosen turn." Doesn't read like one have the option to not make a Deathwing Assault.

 

You have the option not to make a Deathwing Assault when selecting units with that special rule in your army. The point is that the DWA rule does not require you to make a DWA, it gives you the option to. Therefore you have the option not to, therefore Deathwing units with the DWA rule are not units which must start the game in reserve. Therefore they do count in determining how many of your units, in total, may be placed in reserve. Of course, after declaring that you are going to make a DWA, you don't have the option not to; but the same applies to other reserves - once you've decided to place a unit in reserve, you don't have the option not to place that unit in reserve. Are you going to argue that this means that all units placed in reserve must be placed in reserve? I certainly hope not.

 

Your argument is that the codex overrides the BGB in that it creates a new class of non-reserved, non-deployed units called DWA;

 

My argument is there are no such rules as a class of "deployed" and not deployed = "reserve". As had been requested many time, please quote the specific rules. Since there are no such rules, there's nothing to override.

 

even though the codex does not at any point explicitly override the reserves rule

 

Nothing to override. DWA doesn't say put units in Reserve, so why would one apply Reserve rule to DWA?

 

except for the statement that DWA units do not roll for reserves (which another poster has quite reasonably argued is an implication that the rest of the reserves rule DOES apply to DWA units).

 

Or it could just as reasonable interpeted as saying deploying the DWA before rolling for reserve.

 

According to the BGB (i.e. before C:DA was published) there were two options which applied to each unit in your army: either you deployed them, in which case they were deployed; or you didn't, in which case they were in reserves. Hence two classes. Given that these are the only two BGB options anyway, it would be ridiculous to require the BGB to specify that these are the only two options in a separate rule. My view is that the BGB remains very clear and applicable - units are deployed or in reserve - and that the timing of the decision to reserve or not is irrelevant. Perhaps you can point to the specific rule that states that DWA units are NOT in reserve, since you're so keen on having rules quoted to you?

 

You cannot then support this argument by appealing to the order of things as defined in the BGB, since the codex has already overridden the BGB by adding a new decision step as well (i.e. choose DWA units before determining Warlord Traits).

 

Huh? Lost your reasoning here.

 

Your argument is circular.

 

Of course, you still haven't addressed my other question.

 

Can one still DWA if a mission does not have the Reserve rule? I quoted the DWA rule many times already, so won't requote again. Please read the text and tell me if DWA can be used even if mission doesn't have Reserve.

 

What's that got to do with anything? A unit in reserve is one that is available to arrive later in the game. A unit is in reserve if it isn't deployed at the beginning of the first turn. If it's not deployed and not in reserve, then where is it?

[Harleqvin]

Read below, Big Gumbo.

 

The only thing that truly needs to be stated is this.

Deathwing Assault: Units entirely composed of models that have both this special rule and Terminator Armor can choose to make a Deathwing Assault. Immediately after determining Warlord Trait, tell your opponent which units are making a Deathwing Assault, and make a secret note of whether it takes place during your first or second turn. All units making the Deathwing Assault automatically arrive via Deep Strike at the start of the chosen turn - there is no need to roll for reserves.

 

All these units are being chosen before the Deploy Forces section that happens after choosing Determine Warlord Trait section. Which the deploy section is when you choose who is being held in reserve. Also in the BGB it states that models who arrive by Deep Strike do so from Reserve.

 

Yes the DW are in reserve but they are not being chosen to be in Reserve in the normal way. They are being forced to Deploy by Deep Stirke, Which if you arrive from Deep Strike you arrive from Reserve.

 

The Deathwing units that are being put into Deathwing Assault are being done so before the normal time for placing models into Reserve which is in the Deploy Forces section after Determine Warlord Trait.

 

Because of this distinction that says Deathwing Assault is done Immediately after Determine Warlord Trait, it is forcing them to be held in reserve. Keep in mind this is only the Units that are doing the Deathwing Assault.

 

 

Sorry this took me so long to give my answer but i had only just last night gotten a copy of C:DA so i can see the exact wording of Deathwing Assault.

 

 

So furthering:

Yes, models doing Deathwing Assault are coming from Reserve because they are Deep Striking.

No. Models doing the Deathwing Assault are not counted for 50% allowed Reserves because they are being forced to be in Reserve before the Reserves rule happens in the Deploy Forces Section when Reserves are normally done. This is because it happens Immediately after Determine Warlord trait section which would then be before Deploy Forces section.

 

 

the choice to make them DWA is before you would do Reserves in the Deploy Forces section.

[cielaq]

I disagree that the timing is crucial - you are doing voluntary action, and later claim it is forced to you. It doesn't matter when you make a decision - you are making it, that's all that matters.

Plus, rolling for warlord traits is part of the deployment - so declaration of DWA is also part of the deployment, per page 121. ;)

[BigGumbo]

Harleqvin

 

I had read your comment before my last post.

 

The key point is that you are still making a choice that ends up with the DW units being placed in reserve, therefore you could have made a different choice leading them not to be in reserve, therefore it is obvious that said units are not required to be in reserve, therefore they do still count in determining the 50% (rounded up) of your army that can be placed in reserve. You, along with others, seem to be hanging your hat on a specific timing question which seems to me to be tenuous at best. I personally make the decision on which of my units is going into reserve at the point that I'm drawing up my army list. Does this mean that I can disregard any consideration of the BGB reserves rule? Of course it doesn't, that would be absurd.

 

If the DWA rule as written specifically said that units selected for a DWA do not count towards reserves, are not placed in reserves or in some other way are outside the purview of the BGB section on reserves, that would be one thing. However, the Codex does not specify any alternative to deploy or hold in reserve; therefore the logical next step is to ask yourself "what is the general rule which covers units not placed on the table during deployment?". Do you know the answer to this, or do I need to spell it out?

 

I don't mean to be rude but your position is even more absurd than CheezeFezt's, since you agree that units chosen for DWA are in reserves - CheezeFezt questions this as well, which at least makes his position coherent.

 

I disagree that the timing is crucial - you are doing voluntary action, and later claim it is forced to you. It doesn't matter when you make a decision - you are making it, that's all that matters.

 

This.

 

(I'd've "liked" it if the system would let me...)

[Harleqvin]

but the point is is that it is done before the Deploy forces section. That is where you do reserves (in the Deploy Forces section.) Because the choice is being done before then it makes it not optional when you get to the Reserves part in Deploy Forces.

 

It is no longer an option when you get to that step.There is no second DWA section, only the one.

[cielaq]

Not really - it's first step of Deployment procedure. The same way as charging into contact is part of assault.

Plus DWA states "Immediately after determining Warlord Trait", not "before deploying your forces". And guess what other thing is "immidiately after determining Warlord Trait"? Deploying your forces. Nothing in DWA rule states that this is additional step between Trait and Deploying.

[BigGumbo]

but the point is is that it is done before the Deploy forces section. That is where you do reserves. Because the choice is being done before then it makes it not optional when you get to the Reserves part in Deploy Forces.

 

It is no longer an option when you get to that step.

I think too much is being read into this "deploy forces step" point. Reserves are stated in the BGB as being units which can be "called upon to reinforce a battle at short notice or to conceal your true strength from the foe" (p.124, BGB). This definition applies equally to units chosen for DWA, doesn't it? Or would you seriously argue that not deploying for any other reason (like, say, you forgot about that model during deployment - which has happened more than once in my experience) means that the non-deployed units are not reserves?

[Harleqvin]

Deployment:

Determine Warlord Traits

Deploy forces

 

 

Under Reserves in the special rules section it say:

When Deploying their armies, players can choose not to deploy up to half of their units (rounding up) keeping them as Reserves to arrive later. "This is literally the first line on Reserves."

 

now tell me when you deploy forces?

[elphilo]

I disagree that the timing is crucial - you are doing voluntary action, and later claim it is forced to you. It doesn't matter when you make a decision - you are making it, that's all that matters.

Now before I reply I just want to say I'm in the camp that says it does count towards the 50% reserves rule, though I can see the other side of the coin. But with that reasoning when I take a Vendetta or Valkyrie and put a Veteran Squad in them, the Veterans should count towards the 50% rule. But they don't.

 

As per the FAQ

Q: Do units that are transported in a vehicle that MUST start in

reserve count towards the number of units that can be placed in

Reserves? For example, must I count the units in a Drop Pod or

Valkyrie towards the 50% of units I can place in Reserves? (p124)

A: No

 

Even though the Veterans are able to deploy normally I'm choosing to put them in the Valk/Ven during deployment. Now before the FAQ I would always count these Vets towards the 50% rule, but now I don't. So what's to say that units you choose to deploy via DWA and hold in reserve, just like you chose to put those Veterans in the Valk/Ven, aren't going to go against the 50% rule? This needs an FAQ desperately.

[cielaq]

"now tell me when you deploy forces?"

Immediately after determining Warlord Traits, same as DWA.

[Harleqvin]

Also keep in mind that the reason this is done:

Deployment:

Determine Warlord Traits

Deploy forces

 

Is because there are Traits that can alter how you deploy.

[BigGumbo]

Deployment:

Determine Warlord Traits

Deploy forces

 

 

Under Reserves in the special rules section it say:

When Deploying their armies, players can choose not to deploy up to half of their units (rounding up) keeping them as Reserves to arrive later. "This is literally the first line on Reserves."

 

now tell me when you deploy forces?

It seems: immediately after determining warlord traits - i.e. at the same time as you declare your DWA units and other reserves. Thanks for confirming that these take place simultaneously.

 

(Ninja'd by cielaq)