undeadfilth Posted January 12, 2013 Share Posted January 12, 2013 I had started up a ravenwing force when 6th came out. I saw the special rules for bikers and immediately thought of the DAs. I tried doing a quick 2.5k list with the new dex and I'm not sure I'm happy with it. I was hoping this could be the start of a thread where we can discuss pure ravenwing tactics, theory, and general discussion of the burly speed demons of the far future:) for starters, I love the fact that sammael is now an independent character^.^ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/269348-6th-edition-ravenwing/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dread Posted January 12, 2013 Share Posted January 12, 2013 The only problem I see is what we have always faced, low model count. I think I am going to start up the all 3 sides of DA and include a little of this and little of that.....try a well rounded army. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/269348-6th-edition-ravenwing/#findComment-3280879 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnii Posted January 12, 2013 Share Posted January 12, 2013 Some quick notes I've made for designing RW forces in the last couple hours: 1.) RW Command Squads are limited to 3 bikers 2.) Techmarines can be taken with a bike as wargear for 70 pts are ICs and don't count against Force Org. 3.) Black Knights can be taken up to 10 strong 4.) RW Bike Squad's attached land speeder can be any book legal variant now 5.) The LS Vengeance is really points expensive 6.) LS Darkshroud looks worth trying without the AC upgrade 7.) No Company Master on a bike, all other generic characters are game 8.) I need to practice "Hit & Run" 9.) Clarification is needed on RW Command Squad banner options: The book says "...take a banner from the Relic Banners section..." and there isn't one. Currently assuming that meant Sacred Standards as per the other two command squad entries. 10.) Ole Sam's land speeder while only having 2 HPs, does indeed have a 4+ invuln and a +d6" to it's Flat Out move 11.) Corvus hammers are awesome -M Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/269348-6th-edition-ravenwing/#findComment-3281016 Share on other sites More sharing options...
EPK Posted January 12, 2013 Share Posted January 12, 2013 I don't think the limit 3 command squad will be a horrible thing. They will be led by Sammeal or another HQ on bike along with the opportunity to add a tech marine. Heck, with the cheap librarians/chaplains you can run Sammy and one of them... Or any combination. I like that you can get access to any speeder with the RW bikes - is it a separate unit as before or do they have to run with the group? Same question for AB? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/269348-6th-edition-ravenwing/#findComment-3281047 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cypher 102 Posted January 12, 2013 Share Posted January 12, 2013 Things I see with the new Ravenwing: The Darkshroud is definitely worth it. A bunch of Ravenwing racing across the board with 2+ cover saves will seriously annoy any opponent. Command squad with Standard of Devastation surrounded by Ravenwing Attack Squadrons. Just imagine each squadron of six putting out 24 twin-linked bolter shots. Stasis bombs, stasis grenades, rad grenades, blind everywhere. De-buff the ever living crap out of the enemy units. Lots of potential with this new book. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/269348-6th-edition-ravenwing/#findComment-3281209 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoggNewTrix Posted January 12, 2013 Share Posted January 12, 2013 Basic company masters can have bikes, its in the special issue wargear section... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/269348-6th-edition-ravenwing/#findComment-3281224 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Blaire Posted January 12, 2013 Share Posted January 12, 2013 For the Command squad: Take the one Black Knight, Apothecary and Standard Bearer (I'm still trying to decide if the Champion is worth it), take an additional Bike mounted Librarian, tack on two Techmarines on bikes (one for each HQ choice), drop the Standard of Devastation as suggested. Add in Sammael and you have a seven man Command unit that should be pretty tough with the ability to reroll shots from the Librarian, a couple of 2+ saves, add in some conversion fields maybe, have the Librarian take Lion's Roar for a plasma cannon shot if you want, and have a Darkshroud, a Dark Talon and a couple of RWASs play escort and you should have a tough as nails battle unit. I like that you can get access to any speeder with the RW bikes - is it a separate unit as before or do they have to run with the group? Same question for AB? Still a separate unit. Not sure I really understand the reason for the AB being separate, other than to kill any attempted 2 Wound shenanigans you might be able to pull with it in the squad. Basic company masters can have bikes, its in the special issue wargear section... Also in the Dark Angels Wargear list is the Notes section where Note 2, which is by the Space Marine bike entry in the Special Issue Wargear section, states "May not be taken by a Company Master" Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/269348-6th-edition-ravenwing/#findComment-3281231 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoggNewTrix Posted January 12, 2013 Share Posted January 12, 2013 Oops. flipped right past that page. And, shutting up now....... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/269348-6th-edition-ravenwing/#findComment-3281237 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Blaire Posted January 12, 2013 Share Posted January 12, 2013 Oops. flipped right past that page. And, shutting up now....... LOL, no need to shut up, I missed it the first couple of times also. I want expecting to find load out restrictions on the foot notes for the list itself. Same thing for the mutual exclusivity note and the Techmarines can't have a jump pack note. The new Codex will take some getting used to, but this particular discussion is definitely needed, and we need participants. :D. I really think that the Ravenwing got the biggest and coolest improvements in this Codex release. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/269348-6th-edition-ravenwing/#findComment-3281247 Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlauG Posted January 12, 2013 Share Posted January 12, 2013 My only problem with the Command Squad is that the Apothecary was really much more useful to a bigger squad... for an all Ravenwing army, the FNP banner would be more useful, if it didn't have such stiff competition from the Salvo one... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/269348-6th-edition-ravenwing/#findComment-3281254 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kastor Krieg Posted January 12, 2013 Share Posted January 12, 2013 Remember that the Salvo 2 option has only 12" range, mate. It's only good when the tactical unit is absolutely stationary, gunline. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/269348-6th-edition-ravenwing/#findComment-3281262 Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlauG Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 Remember that the Salvo 2 option has only 12" range, mate. It's only good when the tactical unit is absolutely stationary, gunline. I was thinking of making use of relentless biker boltguns myself :) Also worthy of note; Ravenwing Attack squadrons have lost Fearless. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/269348-6th-edition-ravenwing/#findComment-3281280 Share on other sites More sharing options...
facmanpob Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 The bikers are relentless though, so always get to shoot as if stationary i.e. 4 salvo shots. The big thing for me in the codex is that the FA slot is rammed. The more I look at the Darkshroud the more useful I think it is, and the Black Knights are great too. I also suppose that I need to try out a flyer, which leaves no space for me much beloved Typhoons........ ...... Have no fear though, kind Mr Vetock's allowing us to put them in our RAS! Interesting that the AC/HB speeder is only 5 points more than the Typhoon.....maybe the Typhoon isn't an automatic pick anymore? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/269348-6th-edition-ravenwing/#findComment-3281285 Share on other sites More sharing options...
shabbadoo Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 I won't get my hand on the codex for a few more days, so could somebody tell me how the Ravenwing Attack Squadron Combat Squad thing works? Also, did they fix the idiotic "The Land Speeder doesn't have Scout, so the whole unit can't Outflank." jackassery? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/269348-6th-edition-ravenwing/#findComment-3281294 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Blaire Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 Well, the Combat Squads rule doesn't look like it got changed at all and the Speeders don't have Scouts. I haven't seen any alterations to any of that, so I'm not sure it was resolved. However, it says that upon purchase they always operate as complete independent units of one model. It doesn't say upon deployment, etc. I'm not sure that has any affect on the situation, but I know if we were playing each other, I would allow the bikes to Outflank and place the Speeders on the table. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/269348-6th-edition-ravenwing/#findComment-3281307 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polythemus Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 I think the scout special rule rule is in effect if any model in the unit has it. Like fearless. Therefor if landspeeder is added to a scouting bike squad it also has scout. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/269348-6th-edition-ravenwing/#findComment-3281369 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Blaire Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 I think the scout special rule rule is in effect if any model in the unit has it. Like fearless. Therefor if landspeeder is added to a scouting bike squad it also has scout. Ah, yes, thank you so much Polythemus. I kept looking to see where I remembered something like that from and it is right there on page 41 in the Scout special rule, "This rule also confers the Outflank special rule (pg 40)." Then on page 40, Outflank: "any unit that contains at least one model with this special rule is attempting to Outflank". There you go Shabbadoo, issued solved. RW bikers can Outflank, so if the Speeder is still part of the squadron in Reserves, it can also Outflank. If the Speeder is not part of the squadron, then it can't Outflank, but the bikes are still able to. :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/269348-6th-edition-ravenwing/#findComment-3281375 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slayer le Boucher Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 Been years that i wait a DA codex, always wanted to make a fully mounted SM army, so ravenwing is perfect. It will not be a classic DA army though, i plan on converting the hell out of every single model. Imagine a whole army of "Knights" , SM mounted on Horse backs, ala Deathchargers for the DK's in wow, speeders would be dragons, and Sammael would be on a Nightfury(ref; How to teach your Dragon)... Ithink of a Ravenwing heavy list thus, with a Squad of Deathwing or two for extra CC capability, and GK's has allies, specialy so that i can use my Converted Venerable dread(who i wanted to use has a Ironclad...), by using a GK Dreadknight. I'm looking for it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/269348-6th-edition-ravenwing/#findComment-3281418 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dread Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 So far my only complaint is, well I did an Apoth and standard conversion years ago and now I'm gonna have ta tear the bolters off and add plasma talons. Haha, not really much of a complaint now that I think about it. But as for all the other things, my main question is, if you put Sammie or a lord on bike with regular RW, does it confer the skilled rider to them? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/269348-6th-edition-ravenwing/#findComment-3281424 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion El Jason Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 I'm wondering if the command squads small size means it may be better to just turbo boots a lot so the banner is in the right place and you have a really good cover save rather than risk losing such an expensive small unit so easily. I am worried about getting a 65 point banner in a 3 man unit for example. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/269348-6th-edition-ravenwing/#findComment-3281427 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Blaire Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 So far my only complaint is, well I did an Apoth and standard conversion years ago and now I'm gonna have ta tear the bolters off and add plasma talons. Haha, not really much of a complaint now that I think about it. But as for all the other things, my main question is, if you put Sammie or a lord on bike with regular RW, does it confer the skilled rider to them? Sammael does give them the benefits, yes, per the Big Green Book, page 41, Skilled Rider rule. A Company Master cannot be equipped with a Space Marine bike. Interrogator-Chaplains, Chaplains, and Librarians all do not possess the Skilled Rider rule, nor does the bike give that rule to them. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/269348-6th-edition-ravenwing/#findComment-3281428 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cypher 102 Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 Is anyone going to start putting power lances on their Ravenwing sergeants? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/269348-6th-edition-ravenwing/#findComment-3281548 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azoriel Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 Not a complaint, but is the storm bolter on Sammael's jetbike still just for show? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/269348-6th-edition-ravenwing/#findComment-3281602 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kastor Krieg Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 Not a complaint, but is the storm bolter on Sammael's jetbike still just for show? Not anymore, if it was before. The Corvex's entry on p. 59 says "Corvex is a jetbike fitted with a plasma cannon and a twin-linked storm bolter". Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/269348-6th-edition-ravenwing/#findComment-3281615 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azoriel Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 Not anymore, if it was before. The Corvex's entry on p. 59 says "Corvex is a jetbike fitted with a plasma cannon and a twin-linked storm bolter". No, no - I think you miss my meaning. Does Sammael now have the ability to fire both the storm bolter and the plasma cannon at the same time (or, alternatively, is there some incentive to using the former rather than the latter)? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/269348-6th-edition-ravenwing/#findComment-3281623 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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