Tacticals vs Scouts

[Papa Lazarou]

So I'm currently building a 1500pt list and trying to weigh up the pros and cons of each unit for objective holding. They will be a unit of 5 for holding a objective in my own deployment zone.

 

Tacticals - 4x bolters 1x flamer

Pros

 

3+ save

Flamer good on overwatch

Quite tough

 

Cons

 

Lack of of range

 

Scouts 5x sniper 1x melta Bomb

Pros

 

Ranged shooting

Rending

Can pick out targets

4' s to wound

 

Cons

 

4+ save

BS4

 

At the moment I'm leaning towards the scouts but what is everyones choice for objective holding, are scouts now a viable unit or are tacticals still the sensible choice?

[DominicJ]

You need ten tacticals to take special or heavy weapons.

[Demoulius]

Scouts are often overlooked and I myself havent used them in a good while (painting up a good few for my LPC though )

Their biggest drawback are weaker armour and lower BS/WS. In cover theyre often just as durable as normal marines though! In combat they can also pack a suprising punch since (WS and armour aside) they have a normal marine profile! Combat scouts can easily beat tactical marines in hand to hand if they got the charge! (and furious charge)

Move through cover and infiltrate also make them a good choice for objective nicking say your opponent has a refused flank with some good cover and an objective, they are a nice distraction (if nothing else) to place there

Theyre also very cheap which isent something to overlook! Both listed squads (both tactical and scout) are terrible at holding objective though... At 5 man max theyre not going to weather much firepower and in combvat they die pretty quikly to. If you want backfield objective camping id still pick the scouts, if nothing else because theyre cheaper and them NOT dieing seems to tick off my opponents making them fire at them alot more then they should

-edit-

typos

[Papa Lazarou]

You need ten tacticals to take special or heavy weapons.

yeah my bad, should have looked closer. That will make it 5xbolters then.

Theyre also very cheap which isent something to overlook! Both listed squads (both tactical and scout) are terrible at holding objective though... At 5 man max theyre not going to weather much firepower and in combvat they die pretty quikly to. If you want backfield objective camping id still pick the scouts, if nothing else because theyre cheaper and them NOT dieing seems to tick off my opponents making them fire at them alot more then they should

This is exactly my dilemma at the moment, by the time I had my core army together that left me with about 80-90 points left and with 2 assault squads I figured I would need a unit purley for objectives, so cheap is the order of the day. Plus if I can hack my oppenent off with cheap precision shots then all the better.

List is a here if anyone wants to look.

http://www.bolterand...howtopic=268945

[Kickrock]

The Tactical Squads will win out most of the time. This is based on Balistic Skill alone. This can be midigated by a Prescience Librarian. You've also gotta consider the range of weapons a Tactical Squad can take. The Plasma Gun being the biggest right now. Having the ability to take Transports is also extreamly valuble.

 

Now, scouts arn't push overs either... BS3, as I said can be midigated. Sniper Rifles are amazing weapons and can overlook the fact the squad can't take Plasma Guns. They can still get a Heavy Weapon, but at BS3 and limited to two. But this is why Scout Squads are good;

 

Infiltrate, Scout, Camo Cloaks.

 

This means that you can set up where you want, get a move, and that standing out in the open you've got a 5+ Cover Save. Ruins will give you a 2+.

 

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In 5th Edition I rarely used Tactical Squads. Generally if I used a shooty unit I put a 10 man Sniper Squad on a back objective and put a 10 man Bolter Squad up the field towards my enemy. Because of the weight of fire my damage wasn't really affected. The Snipers would cause a lot of issues with all types of units, specifically Terminators. The forward scouts would draw a lot of fire that would get soaked up with that 2+ Cover Save while Assault Marines moved up the field. This was great against enemies like Grey Knight Strike Squads here I was not interested in Deep Striking.

 

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... Thats all I have. I like scouts. They have a role. Just gotta find it.

 

I fudged and thought Scouts had the Stealth rule. Not sure why... Can't find it in my rule books anymore. Adjust cover saves as appropriate.

[Res Ipsa Loquitur]

5 naked Sniper Scouts are, in my opinion and experience, better backfield objective campers than 5 naked Tactical Marines. Better range and possibility of sniping special weapons/champions.

 

They'll obviously die to an enemy assault, but then so will Tac. Marines.,

[JamesI]

I have to agree with Res. If its 5 guys to objective camp, I'd take the scouts.

[John Rainbow]

Yeah. For a backfield unit I'd take scouts too. You might actually kill something with them at range too unlike the Tacticals with bolters. Put the objective in terrain and you're golden.

[Angel of the Emperor]

I usually run 1 or 2 sets of scouts with cloaks. I have seen a ton of shots go thier way and they draw fire and are able to take it due to the cover save. They have the ability to hurt armor and as pointed out before target specific units. Plus it makes them even better if you go to ground with the 2+ save if in ruins or building.