Kastor Krieg Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 Dakka Standard makes every "boltgun" a Salvo 2/4 weapon. Bikes and Termies are Relentless, so they always count as stationary for the needs of Heavy, Ordnance and Salvo weapons. Now, what's listed as "Boltguns" on p.56 BRB? Bolters, even storm bolters, heavy bolters (!), bolt pistols (!!!). Now, imagine an army of Gunslingers, 2x 4-die bolt pistols in each hand. DAKKA CYPHER STYLE! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadDoc Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 The rule is specifically refering to boltguns, a.k.a. bolters, it isn't alluding to all bolt weapons or it would say "bolt weapons". If you tried playing the Standard the way you suggest your opponent would be well within their rights to call shenanigans. Sorry, but thats just not how its meant to work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aerixis Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 It states units within 6 inches treat their Boltguns as salvo 2/4. So yeah, boltguns only in units within 6 inches, because boltguns have their own weapon profile. Otherwise that'd be epic! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kastor Krieg Posted January 13, 2013 Author Share Posted January 13, 2013 The rule is specifically refering to boltguns, a.k.a. bolters, it isn't alluding to all bolt weapons or it would say "bolt weapons". If you tried playing the Standard the way you suggest your opponent would be well within their rights to call shenanigans. Sorry, but thats just not how its meant to work. I have no idea how they MEANT it to work, I know what the RAW is. It says BOLTGUNS. All of them. There you go, all the BOLTGUNS in the game: http://img820.imageshack.us/img820/5219/boltguns.png The actual Adeptus Astartes bolter, a.k.a. boltgun, is a "square" among "rectangles". It's still a rectangle itself. The rule is about all the rectangles, all weapons of the "BOLTGUN" class, not just the tiny part of it, the square bolter, which also shares the name of the class. GW releases a dex with unclear rules wording, go figure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSocks Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 So you're saying that if your vulcan megabolter is within 6" of the standard it is treated as 2/4 salvo? =D. Edit: I imagine this will have an errata soon, though most people seem to be playing it with the rule only applying to boltguns (the actual weapon not the class of weapons) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kastor Krieg Posted January 13, 2013 Author Share Posted January 13, 2013 Per RAW, unfortunately, yes. Good game design, huh? :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kastor Krieg Posted January 13, 2013 Author Share Posted January 13, 2013 . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_f Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 Omg, i haven't considered the implications of relentless in combination with this standard! 10 terminators could move 6" and fire 40 shots at S4 and 4 shots at S8 with the CML. With split fire and twin linked on deepstrike. And PE CSM. crazy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndigoJack Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 except under the listing of boltguns, is a boltgun. The dakka standard affects boltguns. Boltguns, as defined in the codex, are 24" S4 AP5 rapid fire. So only those weapons are able to use the salvo 2/4 profile. Codex always trumps rulebook. Now the dakka standard in the hands of the RW is nasty, especially if it has an apothecary and a librarian with a power field generator. I'd like to see a heldrake destroy it now! . It's 6" for the salvo profile in both my english codex and my digital one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Landrain Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 Special issue ammo only works in boltguns.... but works in combi-bolters... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt Danosef Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 Special issue ammo only works in boltguns.... but works in combi-bolters... Indeed - as Combi-flamers, Combi-meltas and Combi-plasmas are just a boltgun with a stripped down version of their relevant special weapon attached. It is still a boltgun actually firing the bolt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
banis Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 The standard also works on on combi bolters..Because it is a boltgun and another weapon. Special issue ammo does not work on storm bolters.. It is even FAQed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadDoc Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 Combi weapons consist of a boltgun with an add-on weapon, combi-bolters simply being twin-linked boltguns/bolters. None of which stops the boltgun/bolter part of them still being just a boltgun/bolter. I am seriously shocked at the deeply questionable rules interpretaions I'm seeing from some people in this thread. The standard applies to boltguns, a.k.a. bolters, within 6" of the Standard (which would include the boltgun/bolter component of combi weapons as thats still just a boltgun/bolter) and NOT to any other type of bolt weapon. Trying to suggest otherwise, against all the facts, is skirting perilously close to cheating... Edit - The rule isn't vague, boltguns are a defined weapon listed in the Codex, the specific weapon to which the Standard clearly refers. The fact that this should even be an issue for someone is just staggering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt Danosef Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 Combi weapons consist of a boltgun with an add-on weapon, combi-bolters simply being twin-linked boltguns/bolters. None of which stops the boltgun/bolter part of them still being just a boltgun/bolter. I am seriously shocked at the deeply questionable rules interpretaions I'm seeing from some people in this thread. The standard applies to boltguns, a.k.a. bolters, within 6" of the Standard (which would include the boltgun/bolter component of combi weapons as thats still just a boltgun/bolter) and NOT to any other type of bolt weapon. Trying to suggest otherwise, against all the facts, is skirting perilously close to cheating... QFT ^ - If you take any modern day 5.56mm assault rifle and equip it with an underslung 40mm grenade launcher, it is still a 5.56mm assault rifle using exactly the same firing mechanism, ammunition feed and the same ammunition. The addition of the grenade launcher does precisely nothing to change the rifle characteristics beyond additional weight to the overall weapon system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Landrain Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 The standard also works on on combi bolters..Because it is a boltgun and another weapon. Special issue ammo does not work on storm bolters.. It is even FAQed. Which was the point i was making as a comparison... The wording on the two ie.. SIA and Standard are the same. Otherwise SIA would work in storm bolters, etc... as the OP thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dswanick Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 The rule is specifically refering to boltguns, a.k.a. bolters, it isn't alluding to all bolt weapons or it would say "bolt weapons". If you tried playing the Standard the way you suggest your opponent would be well within their rights to call shenanigans. Sorry, but thats just not how its meant to work. I have no idea how they MEANT it to work, I know what the RAW is. It says BOLTGUNS. All of them. There you go, all the BOLTGUNS in the game: http://img820.imageshack.us/img820/5219/boltguns.png The actual Adeptus Astartes bolter, a.k.a. boltgun, is a "square" among "rectangles". It's still a rectangle itself. The rule is about all the rectangles, all weapons of the "BOLTGUN" class, not just the tiny part of it, the square bolter, which also shares the name of the class. GW releases a dex with unclear rules wording, go figure. So does that mean that when my Wargear entry says my model is armed with a "Boltgun" I can choose for him to be armed with a Vulcan Mega-bolter "Boltgun"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onisuzume Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 OMG! Can people please stop calling it "dakka standard"? Its called the Standard of Devastation, not "dakka standard". The addition of the grenade launcher does precisely nothing to change the rifle characteristics beyond additional weight to the overall weapon system. Actually, one could surmise that the additional weight underneath the barrel helps slow down the weapon climbing upwards under sustained firing. Anyhow, I'm pretter certain it only refers to our 24" S4 AP5 rapid fire weapon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dswanick Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 OMG! Can people please stop calling it "dakka standard"? Its called the Standard of Devastation, not "dakka standard". Well, that's what happens when you teach an Orc player to read and then give them an Astartes Codex - - Dakka Pred instead of Predator Destructor - Dakka Standard instead of Standrad of Devastation - etc... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt Danosef Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 Actually, one could surmise that the additional weight underneath the barrel helps slow down the weapon climbing upwards under sustained firing. The additional weight of an underslung grenade launcher (I'm thinking of an SA-80A1 with an M203 40mm grenade launcher specifically, due to practical experience with this combined system) has no practical benefit with regards to recoil. It affects the handling characteristics of the weapon in that the overall weight is of course increased, and the overall system is bulkier as well. Furthermore, how the weapon is held is different - but recoil is an issue regardless. The kick of even a standard 5.56mm rifle is great enough that having a retardant doesn't provide any practical benefit to the firer. In relation to this thread and more on topic - the point is that such a combination doesn't change the weapon's fundamental elements. Leading back to the point that a Boltgun is a Boltgun and a combi-flamer/melta/plama is still just a Boltgun with an additional special weapon attached. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drunken Angel Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 Too late the standard of devastation shall be forever known in 40k vernacular as the "Dakkapole" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayward Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 If they just used BOLT FIRING WEAPONS on the title instead of BOLTGUNS... Now we have to wait for the FAQ so we can apease the RAWers. Again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSocks Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 As far as I can tell no one is arguing that a combi bolter is not a boltgun? The standard effects the boltgun profile, the combi-weapon bolter uses that profile and therefore it is effected. This thread is about whether it changes other profiles such as a bolt pistol, stormbolter, heavy bolter or vulcan mega bolter. Which I am almost certain it doesn't, everyone I've seen has played it this way as it makes sense. I imagine an errata will be out very soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadDoc Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 If only this was a simple case of RAW versus RAI, it isn't though, its selective interpretation (in extremis) for benefit. Beyond even the usual RAW malarky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kastor Krieg Posted January 13, 2013 Author Share Posted January 13, 2013 So does that mean that when my Wargear entry says my model is armed with a "Boltgun" I can choose for him to be armed with a Vulcan Mega-bolter "Boltgun"? Obviously not. I'm talking about the name of the CLASS of weapons that the dakka flag refers to ("all boltguns"). Not my fault that GW calls bolters "boltguns" and also puts all other weapons in "boltguns" class, making rules like these ambiguous. Also, the dex refers us to the BRB in case of basic gear, which a "boltgun" is (p. 60), so there's no "codex before BRB" case here at all. Well, that's what happens when you teach an Orc player to read and then give them an Astartes Codex - Chainswords at dawn. And I'm not Codex-compliant, blasphemer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kastor Krieg Posted January 13, 2013 Author Share Posted January 13, 2013 If only this was a simple case of RAW versus RAI, it isn't though, its selective interpretation (in extremis) for benefit. Beyond even the usual RAW malarky. Because I'm SURELY going to play it like that and force it down everyone's throats at the FLGS I work in. YEAH! :D It's just a funny curiosity and indication that per RAW the rules are broken again. Of course nobody will allow this to be played like that, but it's there, glaring at you. A boltgun is a boltgun is a boltgun, is all there is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.