Dakka standard, OMG

[Kastor Krieg]

The majority of people appear to have no problem understanding that "units within 6" of the Standard treat their boltguns as Salvo 2/4 weapons" means precisely what it says - any DA unit within 6" of the Standard treats their boltguns/bolters (should they have them) as Salvo 2/4 while within range of the Standard. Pretty clear, hardly something anybody could reasonably call confusing.

You surely have done a focus group of at least a statistically appropriate sample of B&S users (usually that begins at about 1000+ people) and have found out that the "majority" has no problem with this rule? Can you please publish your statistics? Or if you can't, drop the eristical manipulation along with the personal attacks on users (Brother Landrain).

It would be interesting to hear if Kastor Krieg's Codex is a foreign language (non-English) edition, since thats the only possible reason I can think of for something as clear cut as the above (in the English edition Codex at least) to be so wildly misinterpreted.

Oh yes, please insinuate further about how it has to be something wrong with myself and my furrin' 'dex.

For your information, I'm practically bilingual Polish / English, I am a professional translator and editor specializing in game rulebooks full of fluff and rules (mainly RPGs), according to statistics based on the PWN-Oxford body of English, I boast a vocabulary exceeding 98000 units, which places me in the 96th percentile of English users and is way above the level of an English native speaker of my age (30). My codex is in Her Majesty's own English language and this rule is anything but clear-cut.

Care to take a guess again?

[Brother Immolator]

I say peace, no need to get this more ugly than it already has. While I agree that the rule is clear, the very fact that there are people who believe otherwise is an indication that it needs resolving. So add it to the FAQ questions, no need to start a riot here.

[MadDoc]

Allow me to make things abit clearer for you, the majority of people in this thread and that I have asked regarding the issue (a dozen or so thus far, none of whom share your interpretation).

Inspite of your poor attempt at portraying me as racist or somehow biased against "furrin'" Codexes, my interest in whether your Codex was a foreign language or English edition was purely due to the fact that many foreign language editions have displayed poorly translated rules, omissions and other errors which were not present in the English language editions of the same books (presumably down to misreadings/mistakes by interpreters).

As for insinuating that the error lies with you, the error certainly appears to stem solely from your misinterpretation of the rule. Given that the error certainly appears to rest with you. In spite of your insistance to the contrary, the rule is in fact quite clear in the English edition of the Codex, and your interpretation of the rule appears to be in the minority (if not restricted solely to yourself).

All of that bluster and primping about your superior English skills, and yet somehow you're still managing to misread something which (inspite of all your claims to the contrary) is in fact quite clear.

[Isiah]

Calm it down gents. It's going in the ongoing FAQ so let's leave it at that and please keep the personal sniping out.

[incarnus]

I only know one person able interpret rules as selectively as the OP, and he also plays Black Templar. I find this highly amusing.

[Garath]

Kastor Krieg...

 

I do agree with you on Boltguns-Bolters - it is just ..mediocre game design,on purpose. GW does this for years now.Rules are created with gray areas(such as this one) so they can get fixed with a faq.

 

What this does is sell more models long run.

 

In this example , let's say that for the sake of the argument - Standard of Devastation works only on our bolters (carried by normal tactical marines)

- people will see that fielding more marines clearly brings more with SoD then terminators

- bikes profit from it too

 

This would boost tactical marine sales. These where not given a lot of love on this site before the new dex came out.

 

Same might be applied to DW tactical terminators.

 

 

So, 6 months later, GW releases an faq saying SoD works on bolters,storm bloters, combi weapons and heavy bolters.

 

-tactical terminators are back !!!

 

 

This discussion, however well presented (and Kastor has made som points) is pointless. One thing is true, if you field SoD with all kinds of bolter/storm bolter using units- your opponent will not question it

 

 

Plus, at the end of the day-tacticals get the most bang for your buck from this

[shabbadoo]

No really. GW for while has been in the habit of using the exact term for things. If the terms do not match, the ruel does not apply. A boltgun, the weapon, no the weapon class, has only one profile, and it is only that one profle that is modified by this standard.

But I finally got a look at the codex today, and jeez, did this thing even go through any sort of editing process? I guess this is what you get when you promote Jone Schmoe gamer to be an editor when they have no editor training. And if the editor actually does have training, they need to be fired immediately for signing off on such a hack job of a product. Unless somebody beats me to it, I'll probably go through the whole book whole thing and list ever single screw-up. The FAQ will be two pages of editorial errata, plus a few questions relating to disbelief, such as:

Q: Does the Nephilim Jet Fighter really have Missile Lock, even though it doesn't have any blast weapons?

A: Yes. Ummm...what does Missile Lock do again (sorry, I don't know my own rules)? Ah! There it is! No. Disregard the Missile Lock rule.

Q: Due to the Nephilim Jet Fighter no longer having the Missile Lock rule, what is its adjusted points cost?

A: Same cost. You just get less for what you pay for now. I am holding up one finger. Guess which one it is. Yes, we really do not want you to buy this kit. At all.

See? There are so many other things of actual import to be discussing right now.

[Kastor Krieg]

Missile Lock thing already in my errata

Garath, thanks, and you're making a good point.

[Hoser111@hotmail.com]

I get the hope that this works for stormbolters, I want my Deathwing who previously never left home without hammers and shields to become masters of dakka. I unfortunately agree with people who say storm bolters are not intended to benifit from this standard. I found that it dosent matter though, on pg 91 in the "Dark Angels Wargear List" under the section of terminator weapons it says that

"A model wearing terminator armor can replace his storm bolter with one of the following: -combi-flamer, -melta, or -plasma." for 6 points per model. it makes them 50 pionts a model which is sickening but with that ammout of bolter shots, access to any of the combi weapons and powerfists to back up that dakka what cant they take? Twin linked on deepstrike seems like you should be able to eliminate any of that massed troop fire that tore me up before. Personally I would like to stick one of the AWSOMELY cheap librarians with the divination primaris power and TDA with this squad and get that twin linked every turn. some play testing is tequired to see of this squad is actially work the cost but I am very excited.

[Jehoel]

I get the hope that this works for stormbolters, I want my Deathwing who previously never left home without hammers and shields to become masters of dakka. I unfortunately agree with people who say storm bolters are not intended to benifit from this standard. I found that it dosent matter though, on pg 91 in the "Dark Angels Wargear List" under the section of terminator weapons it says that

"A model wearing terminator armor can replace his storm bolter with one of the following: -combi-flamer, -melta, or -plasma." for 6 points per model. it makes them 50 pionts a model which is sickening but with that ammout of bolter shots, access to any of the combi weapons and powerfists to back up that dakka what cant they take? Twin linked on deepstrike seems like you should be able to eliminate any of that massed troop fire that tore me up before. Personally I would like to stick one of the AWSOMELY cheap librarians with the divination primaris power and TDA with this squad and get that twin linked every turn. some play testing is tequired to see of this squad is actially work the cost but I am very excited.

 

Sorry, Deathwing terminators don't get access to the armoury. The Terminators Weapons section is for the TDA Company Master, I Chaplain, and Librarian only based on my reading of the codex.

[Hoser111@hotmail.com]

I get the hope that this works for stormbolters, I want my Deathwing who previously never left home without hammers and shields to become masters of dakka. I unfortunately agree with people who say storm bolters are not intended to benifit from this standard. I found that it dosent matter though, on pg 91 in the "Dark Angels Wargear List" under the section of terminator weapons it says that

"A model wearing terminator armor can replace his storm bolter with one of the following: -combi-flamer, -melta, or -plasma." for 6 points per model. it makes them 50 pionts a model which is sickening but with that ammout of bolter shots, access to any of the combi weapons and powerfists to back up that dakka what cant they take? Twin linked on deepstrike seems like you should be able to eliminate any of that massed troop fire that tore me up before. Personally I would like to stick one of the AWSOMELY cheap librarians with the divination primaris power and TDA with this squad and get that twin linked every turn. some play testing is tequired to see of this squad is actially work the cost but I am very excited.

 

Sorry, Deathwing terminators don't get access to the armoury. The Terminators Weapons section is for the TDA Company Master, I Chaplain, and Librarian only based on my reading of the codex.

ahhhhhh, I see. well I'm sad agian but thanks for correcting my error I hate cheating by ignorance even more than intentionally.

[Brother Landrain]

ahhhhhh, I see. well I'm sad agian but thanks for correcting my error I hate cheating by ignorance even more than intentionally.

 

One of my few disappointments with the new codex... no DW combi-weapons, or option for Power Weapons.

 

And the debate on the Dakka - Boltgun issue seems to be popping up by multiple sources in different places. The Wording could be better..

 

GW got too smart by half when they added 'weapon classes' ie. Auto-Weapons, Boltguns, Flamer Weapons, etc...

 

And then didn't change the name of the Astartes Patern Boltgun to... Bolter.. but instead kept the same name Boltgun.

This is repeated in the Flamer and Plasma Category...

 

Should not have a weapon 'class' and specific weapon with the same name.

 

It is sloppy game writing, when you add effects that work on a whole class of weapons, while others affect just a specific weapon.

 

such as the GK weapon.

 

What counts as a plasma weapon for the Ulumeathi Plasma

Syphon? (p62)

A: All Plasma weapons, as well as Eldar missile launchers firing

plasma missiles, burst cannons, starcannons, all Tau pulse

weapons and any weapon described as using ‘plasma’ as its

effect or in its special rules.

 

The Banner is worded the same and will need a FAQ.

[MadDoc]

With all due respect thats a total load.

 

The Ulumeathi Plasma Syphon specifically says plasma weapons (even qualifying that its effects include plasma pistols, plasma guns and plasma cannons), whereas the Standard of Devastation specifically says "boltguns" (the specific weapon, not the weapon type) and not "all boltguns" as has been erroneous claimed by Kastor Krieg in this thread and his errata thread.

[pueriexdeus]

Can someone please point me to the " Salvo 2/4" rule. I am looking through C:DA V5 and can not find it anywhere. Is it in the BGB?

[GlauG]

Page 52 of the small rulebook. Not sure about the big one.

[Brother Landrain]

With all due respect thats a total load.

 

The Ulumeathi Plasma Syphon specifically says plasma weapons (even qualifying that its effects include plasma pistols, plasma guns and plasma cannons), whereas the Standard of Devastation specifically says "boltguns" (the specific weapon, not the weapon type) and not "all boltguns" as has been erroneous claimed by Kastor Krieg in this thread and his errata thread.

 

Would just stop making a negative comment EVERY DAMN TIME I post something.

 

If you ever actually paid attention I have said I believe it only means the 'bolters' used by tacticals.

 

But you cannot deny the fact that in the BGB it lists BOLTGUNS as a type and Boltgun, Bolt Pistol, Heavy Bolter, et al... are listed under it. If you notice Plasma Weapons is under the exact same heading location as Boltguns....

 

It is Black and White, so stop with the self-righteousness.

 

Using RAW it DOES include all sub-types of Boltguns.

 

It IS Sloppy rules design.

 

If they wouldn't use the same name for a type of weapon as for a specific weapon, we wouldn't have this issue.

[MadDoc]

If you stop making fatuous/fallacious posts that invite correction there won't be any need for me to respond (negatively or otherwise), will there?

[Isiah]

OK gents cool it down.