Polaria Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 I run Cultists as allies for my Necron army and they have two possible uses: Either smallish and cheap unit of 10 to 20 for sitting on objective or a blob of 30 for HQ delivery system for a Warsmith. Warsmith tanks at the front, taking hits from small arms and when they get into assault range the Champion challenges to give the Warsmith room to mow his merry way through rest of the enemy squad. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/269510-cultist-questions/page/2/#findComment-3283121 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayray Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 So your warpsmith marches at the front of your cultist unit, able to be ap'd to death? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/269510-cultist-questions/page/2/#findComment-3283138 Share on other sites More sharing options...
VoteForPedro Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 A 1500 force with 50 or 60 points spent on Cultists can use them to reserve, come on and then go to ground. Taking IG allies will cost you at least the points of a Primaris Psyker/ Vet Squad and that's a good deal more than your Cultists squad. It's more likely you'll want a CCS and then a min size platoon (PCS, 2 Infantry Squads, probably with special and heavy weapons) and you're not getting much change from 200 points for that at a minimum. Sure, they will hold objectives much better than Cultists and contribute more to the game but that's 150 points you could be spending on your primary detachment. Why would you take Infantry squads/PCS over Vet squads? I always use a Primaris psyker/Vet squad with my CSM. They put out alot of plasma shots along with another flyer. Cultists are essentially the same as a infantry squad except they're missing a few things. I'd take a platoon over Primaris/Vets because I'm after objective holders - that's what the cultists would be doing anyway so the train of thought was then do Guardsman do this better? Don't get me wrong, I think IG make great allies for CSM, they compliment each other very well. Chucking in a some vets and a Vendetta will be a great move. However, I'm speaking to the limited role of warm bodies to sit on an objective. In that regarding I think it doesn't matter that Cultists are rubbish compared to IG, they will both probably be hiding/ going to ground anyway. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/269510-cultist-questions/page/2/#findComment-3283165 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Ambroz Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 Ah, I see. I think IG would be better defensively for objective holding as you can give them cloaks (or is that just vets?) and heavy weapon squads. Alternatively, you could take a Vet squad with cloaks and an autocannon for obj holders. Cultists are just basically barebones IG I think. If you could upgrade the champ at all, or at multiple champs then cultists would likely be better. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/269510-cultist-questions/page/2/#findComment-3283246 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cap'm Heckus Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 Khârn also has the "Hatred Incarnate" warlord trait so the Cultists gain hatred (everybody) as well as his Fearless. 165 pts for 35 Cultists, 3 flamers, 3 rerollable attacks each on a charge... 106 potentional attacks (though you'd never get them all into range) ? And Khârn mixed in there? It would at the very least be interesting to watch. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/269510-cultist-questions/page/2/#findComment-3283402 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nehekhare Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 this manoeuvre is also known under the name "Komissar Khârn" (you have to model him a fancy hat) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/269510-cultist-questions/page/2/#findComment-3283469 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cap'm Heckus Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 What about sticking a 10-20 man Cult squad with autoguns in an Imperial bastian to guard an objective? I know most folks like the Aegis better but the Bastion (on paper) looks like an immobile land raider (AV14, Ic. Laser or quadgun, Heavy Bolters, no hull points but glancing hits kill some poor random cultist). Might even make the stubbers worth 5 pts. It'd basically be a big meat silo....with guns. Any experiences, good or bad? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/269510-cultist-questions/page/2/#findComment-3284338 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azekai Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 What about sticking a 10-20 man Cult squad with autoguns in an Imperial bastian to guard an objective? I know most folks like the Aegis better but the Bastion (on paper) looks like an immobile land raider (AV14, Ic. Laser or quadgun, Heavy Bolters, no hull points but glancing hits kill some poor random cultist). Might even make the stubbers worth 5 pts. It'd basically be a big meat silo....with guns. Any experiences, good or bad? The problem with bastions is that when the top section is occupied (the battlements), units are still capable of failing morale tests and falling back. In such a case, they leap from the battlements like lemmings. I briefly considered doing a similiar thing with havocs but the prospect of dying in such a stupid manner dissuaded me. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/269510-cultist-questions/page/2/#findComment-3284487 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Ambroz Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 What about two units of 10 cultists then? one unit sits in the bottom while the other's at the top? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/269510-cultist-questions/page/2/#findComment-3284492 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cap'm Heckus Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 that was my next thought too. 10 cultists with a stubber manning the Heavy bolters and shotting thru the fire points and another on the roof manning the laser/quadgun and shooting over the battlements with autoguns. Point the exit towards the nearest objective so they can run out and claim it at the end. Seems like alot make cultists useful but at least it gives them a heavy bolter to play with. What about cultists inside and a 5-man shooty NM squad on top? They're fearless anyway and disinclined to moving due to Salvo rules. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/269510-cultist-questions/page/2/#findComment-3284506 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sception Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 I've no experience with bastions yet, but I worry that, unless you're running other heavy vehicle armor in your army, that one immobile land raider might be less durable than 10 to 20 cultists going to ground behind an aegis line, which cannot be targeted at all. Also easier to fit multiple units behind, and provides cover for stationary tanks without restricting their field of vision, if you're taking some from IG allies or something. Can't shoot at the bastion if no one's in it, though, so I've heard that it's nice for tally lists, or other armies that just want a huge line of sight blocker to cower some key element behind. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/269510-cultist-questions/page/2/#findComment-3284543 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Ambroz Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 So this sort of unit would have its place in certain lists. Maybe a mech heavy gunline like list? Bastion with cultists inside and atop, preds/fiends, helldrakes some allied IG vehicles....could be fun I think. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/269510-cultist-questions/page/2/#findComment-3284566 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sception Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 Yeah, I could see it working for a Dark Mech theme list with warpsmith, chaos tanks or daemon engines, & allied guard vehicles & tech priests. Heck, is the warpsmith allowed to hang with the cultists atop the bastion (AFB, don't remember the rules limiting how many models can fit)? If so, his Ld10 should keep them from jumping off the building like idiots, his BS5 could make the icarus much more reliable, and his ability to fix vehicles could help keep your tower upright. If a model shoots an intercept gun, the gun isn't allowed to shoot in the following shooting phase, but I forget, can the model itself shoot other weapons? If so, giving the smith a brand could help discourage enemy infantry from approaching your little tower while still enjoying a BS5 anti air lascannon in the opponents' movement phase to discourage fliers. I'm not sure how competitive it would be, but could certainly be fun for a beer & pretzels night themed list. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/269510-cultist-questions/page/2/#findComment-3284587 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Ambroz Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 Probably wouldn't be all that competitive because your troops wouldn't be too mobile to capture objectives. At the most, you'd be able to get one objective with the bastion positioned directly next to it. Still though wouldn't be bad, it'd definitely be fun for a beer/pretzels night. Could see it as a DarkMech/IW sort of list. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/269510-cultist-questions/page/2/#findComment-3284691 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sception Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 They wouldn't be the only troops, you'd still run a squad or two of plasmamarines in rhino, and you'd have some scoring troops from your allied IG detachment. Might work better as IG with CSM allies though (aint it always the way). I'm not familiar enough with Guard to work out a sketch off the top of my head, but.. CSM main detachment Warpsmith 2x10 cultists 2x5 CSMs w/ 1xplasma in havoc rhinos 2x baledrake 2x dakkafiend, 1x trilaz pred; or maybe 2x trilaz, 1x defiler? Bastion w/ icarus Should leave 500ish points for guard in a 1999 point army, maybe? Can you fit an HQ, troops, and 2-3 russes in that, maybe with some tech priests somewhere? It is light on scoring troops, but not completely devoid of them. If Chaos were the allied detachment: Smith 2x10 cultists Heldrake Dakkafiend, Trilaz, or defiler? Bastion w/ Icarus Should leave, what, 1250 points for primary detachment? Looking for a couple fliers, some russ, some infantry, tech priests, sentinels or something, I don't know. Guard stuff. Of course, push it above 2k and more opens up. The second fortification in particular would be valuable, given how much the handful of guard tanks we want to take like to park behind an aegis line. Honestly, might be better taking the aegis first, and let the warpsmith man an icarus / fix tanks from the trenches. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/269510-cultist-questions/page/2/#findComment-3284752 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Ambroz Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 Well barebones Russes are like 150 IIRC, don't have codex onhand at work. I'm pretty sure you can fit a barebones Vet squad and Commisar or Primaris but not sure if that's enough for an Infantry platoon. Yeah it'd be easier as IG as the main detachment. I don't think I'd take a defiler as the Russes pretty much have that covered with their battlecannons (plus a few more weapons). I'd probably go with either the trilas pred or dakkafiend (leaning more towards the dakkafiend but depending on what you outfit your IG with). 1250 would be a decent amount of points for a Guard main detachment. Depending on what all you want, you could probably fit 2x2 squadrons of Russes, a couple sentinels, a couple vendettas, vet squads and a cheap HQ. Going off what I remember from point costs. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/269510-cultist-questions/page/2/#findComment-3284777 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ammonius Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 Of course, push it above 2k and more opens up. The second fortification in particular would be valuable, given how much the handful of guard tanks we want to take like to park behind an aegis line. Honestly, might be better taking the aegis first, and let the warpsmith man an icarus / fix tanks from the trenches. Please correct me if I am wrong (I have had the same thoughts), but since CSM and IG are allies of convenience, and the Warpsmith can only repair friendly vehicles, can we count on our intrepid smith to fix up IG allied tanks? I would love to have a Warpsmith and cultist blob bubble-wrapping an Ordinance battery in some remote corner of the board. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/269510-cultist-questions/page/2/#findComment-3284788 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sception Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 I think he'd be stuck fixing the chaos tanks only. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/269510-cultist-questions/page/2/#findComment-3284794 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Ambroz Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 Yup he's only able to fix chaos tanks. But armor saturation is equally as important and IG in general have better tanks than we do thus if we're going that route it's best to use them as the Primary I think. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/269510-cultist-questions/page/2/#findComment-3284818 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redtoof Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 I took a bit of a silly army today with 3 units of 10 cultists, each will autoguns and heavy stubbers. I found this set up surprisingly effective, running them behind my chaos marines to hold objectives and plink off a few marines with their shooting. The heavy stubber's long range is particularly nice. I'm not suggesting anyone take 3 of these units in a competative game, but one of them would definitely make a reasonable objective holder. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/269510-cultist-questions/page/2/#findComment-3284988 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Excessus Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 Tanith Ghost...you can take a techpriest as well from IG to take care of their tanks. More ad-mech for the people! :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/269510-cultist-questions/page/2/#findComment-3285045 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Ambroz Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 Oh yeah I know Excessus, in fact, if you take one with enough servitors you will automatically repair any weapon destroyed results! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/269510-cultist-questions/page/2/#findComment-3285107 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Excessus Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 Too bad we aren't battle brothers though, I would love that functionality on my vehicles... :( Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/269510-cultist-questions/page/2/#findComment-3285143 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rangeltoft Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 If a model shoots an intercept gun, the gun isn't allowed to shoot in the following shooting phase, but I forget, can the model itself shoot other weapons? Yes, a model that fires an intercept gun can fire another weapon in the following shooting phase. Must say that I find this idéa very tempting to try out Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/269510-cultist-questions/page/2/#findComment-3285166 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cap'm Heckus Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 Ok, i have a game tonight. I'm going to try 30 ccw cultists, 3 flamers, and a Dark Apostle with melta bombs and a Burning Brand and see how they do. i'd take Khârn but I don't have his fig. If it goes well, I'll buy one and try it with him next. I may try dropping warp talons in near them before they charge (assuming reserve rolls works out). If I can blind their target then that'll help both them AND the talons. It's a plan that relies on a lot of "ifs" but what the heck. I'll update tomorrow. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/269510-cultist-questions/page/2/#findComment-3285965 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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