Help against Tau

[Vourne]

Hi all. I'm soon to face to my friends Tau army. I've not yet faced Tau and was looking for some strategy and advice for fighting them.

 

It will be a 1500 point game, normal senario. I know that Tau are weakest when assaulted and that I need to closed on them fast.

 

Please note that my list is mainly made up of models that I currently have in my collection. Apart from what is listed below I do also have, a Stormtalon (all weapon options), 2 Predators (all weapon options), Whirlwind, 10 Scout snipers and a Devastor squad (all weapon options). Please say if you feel any of these would be more to my advantage in my army.

 

Please also not that this is a Salamanders force and quite fluffy, hence the meltas and flamers. So far it is 1480 points.

 

Any advive and opinions will be much appreciated.

 

My list is as follows:

 

Chaplain

Terminator armour, Storm bolter

130 pts

 

Tactical Squad

Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Boltgun, Chainsword

9 Marines: Including Multi-melta & Flamer

170 pts

 

Tactical Squad

Sergeant: Combi-melta, Power fist

9 Marines: Including Multi-melta & Melta

210 pts

Rhino

Storm bolter

35 pts

 

Rhino

Storm bolter

35 pts

 

Terminator Squad

Sergeant: Storm bolter, Power sword

4 Terminators: Including 2 Chainfists, 1 Assault cannon, 1 Heavy Flamer, 1 Cyclone missile launcher

275 pts

 

Dreadnought

Assault cannon, Heavy flamer

125 pts

 

Landspeeeder

Heavy flamer, Multi-melta

70 pts

 

Assault Squad

Sergeant: Thunder Hammer, Combat shield, Melta-bombs

9 Marines: Jump packs, 2 Flamers

250 pts

 

Devastator Squad

Sergeant: Boltgun, Chainsword

4 Marines: Including 1 Plasma cannon, 1 Lascannon, 1 Missile launcher, 1 Multi-melta

180 pts

 

 

Many thanks

[MagicMan]

I'd try and find space for the Whirlwind if you can!

 

With S 5 / AP 4 it can wipe out fire warriors, and its S 4 / AP 5 Ignores Cover wipes out kroot. Its only 85 points, and its led my regular Tau opponent to keep his Fire Warriors hidden in devilfish for most of the game, which is a pretty big advantage.

 

Plus, killing the opponents troops is a great way of winning a battle with all the objective missions going on. :)

[Guest Drunk Guardian]

Keep in mind that his vehicles should have a 3+ cover save... so I'd be very wary of attempting any sort of long-range firebase. Those vehicles are extremely fast so they can be difficult to close with.

 

Looking at the models you have, I'd start by saying you should try to deep strike your Land Speeder, if you start it on the table it'll be blown off the board before you have a chance to get close to his vehicles. Deep striking is risky but a better option than not vs Tau.

 

Your assault squad will likely be the MVP of your game and the Tau player's target priority #1. If possible, screen them with your Rhinos for as long as possible. If you can close into CC range of his infantry and/or vehicles with the assault squad then he's going to be in for a world of hurt.

 

Devastator squad should likely focus fire on his Broadsides, unless a better target of opportunity presents itself. Your weapons are somewhat schizophrenic so I think Broadsides are the best bet.

 

The Dread... if you're footslogging that Dread across the table, then be sure to pop your smoke grenades after turn 1. The Dread likely won't make it within firing range of your opponent. It'll be very difficult to get good use out of the Dread, so I'd probably focus on using it as a counter attack unit. Get it some good cover / obscured vision and keep it near a flank that you're worried about Kroot showing up on. Or maybe defend an objective with it.

 

Terminators are another unit to deep strike. Nothing scares Tau worse than you magically appearing at his doorstep. I'd go with the Assault Cannon if you do intend to deep strike.

 

Tactical Squads want to simply stay alive in objective games, and get into melta-range in kill games. Even better, if you get to assault Tau troops, one simple tactical marine can pretty much take on most Tau units on his own. Just watch out for Shield Drones of close combat death and destruction...

[Giga]

Devastator Squad

Sergeant: Boltgun, Chainsword

4 Marines: Including 1 Plasma cannon, 1 Lascannon, 1 Missile launcher, 1 Multi-melta

180 pts

That's hands-down the worst dev squad I've ever seen.

[Hellios]

It really depends what he is taking. Whirlwinds as have been mentioned are good against Fire warriors and as it happens Kroot. That being said if he is running a mech or suit tau list you may not find it as useful. The real issue is that unless you can hide it somewhere with such a low AV it won't last long. I really do mean hide it. Tau pack S10 AP1 ranged weapons and have other bits of War gear that pretty much make sure it will hit and can reduce any cover save you might get.

 

Also I'm not sure your list is legal... Have you got three heavy weapons in one terminator squad?

 

Do you have any time/money to scratch build or buy any other units if suggested or can you only work with what you've currently got?

 

The Landspeeder should work if you can get it close; deep-striking as already suggested is a good plan.

 

I would also agree that the assault squad should be pretty good. It can close in fast, so it should take less shooting, it is fast enough to catch suits, 2 flamers should be able to hurt large Fire warrior or Kroot units and even have a chance to harm suits before you assault. As has been mentioned these are likely to be a target for the Tau so you need to keep them alive. If he is taking suits I would suggest these might be the priority targets for the assault marines. They can put out a lot of anti-MEQ fire power or pop vehicles fairly well, while remaining agile enough to avoid assaults from a lot of units and even shooting by moving behind terrain.

 

I also have to agree with that Dev squad being bad... Two reasons!

 

1) You are probably not going to out-shoot the Tau. Although that on its own doesn't mean they can't be useful for slowing down or stopping vehicles and lending ranged support.

 

2) The big reason is that the Dev squad has no coordination. Those weapons don't work together and so that squad doesn't really hurt any unit really well. All missile launchers is a good all-comers. Krak missiles can damage any Tau Vehicle and hurt the suits (Maybe cause ID, I think Tau Suits are T4), while frag missiles on more numerous and squishy units such as Fire Warriors or Kroot should work. Missile launchers are also cheap and have a decent range.

[Vourne]

Devastator squad should likely focus fire on his Broadsides, unless a better target of opportunity presents itself. Your weapons are somewhat schizophrenic so I think Broadsides are the best bet.

 

That's hands-down the worst dev squad I've ever seen.

 

Thanks for the replys. I can adjust that Devastor squad to any weapon options, so what would you suggest?

[pyroknight]

Here is how to kill Tau:

 

First, close quarters target saturation. You want as much crap as possible, as close to him as possible. While this is best done intelligently, it works decently even when disorganized. If you are going to be in charge range next turn, the tau player has no choice but to answer you; either by killing you, or sacrificing a blocker to your unit. Generally standing and shooting Tau is a loosing battle. Meanwhile, a single tactical marine has a decent chance of wiping out a fire warrior squad in assault. If you can assault anything besides kroot or piranha, then do so. Please have transports, or some other way to close distance quickly.

 

Second, destroy the unit he has less of. If he is newer to Tau, he will have lots of troops and only a few Battlesuits. Kill his battlesuits and the fight is in your favor.

If he is a competitive Tau player, he will have lots of battlesuits and only 2-3 troop units. These units will be well protected, but if you get a chance to kill them take it. Once he has no more troops, the battle is pretty much won (Unless he kills all your units, or you’re playing for Kill points.) Its not pretty for your team, but he can’t claim objectives anymore so its hard for him to win.

 

 

Target priority at range is usually pathfinders, if you can take out all his markerlights you cut the effectiveness of his heavy hitters by 33%.

Flamers work well on troops. Anything with S 8+ will pop battlesuits.

For killing tanks, I really recommend melta. If you are shooting from further than 12” away you are doing it wrong. (Disruption pod is 3+ cover or better, but turns off if you are within 12”)

Assault works awesome on everything. Seriously, just your bare hands is enough. Its like clubbing baby seals.

[Giga]

Unless you got a really specific purpose for them, it's best to not use dev squads. They're overpriced, simple as.

 

But if you really want to use them, then I suggest keeping them as cheap as possible, so give them 4 missile launchers and call it a day.

[DarkGuard]

Devastator squad should likely focus fire on his Broadsides, unless a better target of opportunity presents itself. Your weapons are somewhat schizophrenic so I think Broadsides are the best bet.

That's hands-down the worst dev squad I've ever seen.

Thanks for the replys. I can adjust that Devastor squad to any weapon options, so what would you suggest?

 

By keeping one simple rule, never mix weapons. Then follow the second simple rule, for C:SM, always take MLs. All other options are either subpar or too expensive.

[Vourne]

Thanks for all your replies.

 

Also I'm not sure your list is legal... Have you got three heavy weapons in one terminator squad?

 

Yes you are right. I miss read the weapon options, so I have corrected them to have just a Heavy flamer.

 

I've also re done the Devastator squad to 4 missile launchers.

 

Luckily I have magnetised pretty much all the weapon options I have. So after correcting some mistakes and making a few changes I found I had 155 points to spare. Which I thought I'd spend on my Stormtalon. Although I'm undecided as to what weapon option to give, for now I've gone for the TML.

 

Here's the revised 1500 point list:

 

Chaplain: Terminator armour, Storm bolter

130 pts

Tactical Squad: Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Boltgun, Chainsword. 9 Marines: Including Multi-melta & Flamer + Rhino & Strom bolter.

205 pts

Tactical Squad: Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Boltgun, Chainsword. 9 Marines: Including Multi-melta & Flamer + Rhino & Strom bolter.

205 pts

Terminator Squad (5): Including 2 Chainfists, 1 Heavy Flamer.

215 pts

Dreadnought: Assault cannon, Heavy flamer.

125 pts

Stormtalon: Twin-linked Assault cannon, TML.

155 pts

Landspeeeder: Heavy flamer, Multi-melta.

70 pts

Assault Squad: Sergeant: Thunder Hammer, Combat shield. 9 Marines: Jump packs, 2 Flamers.

250 pts

Devastator Squad: Sergeant: Boltgun, Chainsword. 4 Missile launchers.

150 pts

 

Thoughts?

[maturin]

I can't help but think that your dreadnought is dead weight in the list. It's got short range weapons, and at AV 12 will likely go down before doing anything useful. For the points I'd rather take an AC/LC predator that can shoot battle suits at range (perhaps causing ID with the lascannons), or a scout sniper squad that can hold an objective while your tac squads charge forward.

[Vourne]

I can't help but think that your dreadnought is dead weight in the list. It's got short range weapons, and at AV 12 will likely go down before doing anything useful. For the points I'd rather take an AC/LC predator that can shoot battle suits at range (perhaps causing ID with the lascannons), or a scout sniper squad that can hold an objective while your tac squads charge forward.

 

Yes to be honest I think you are right. It probably wouldn't last long at all.

 

So as you have suggested, I could replace the Dreadnought with either:

 

5 Scouts: Sniper rifles, Camo cloaks, 1 Missile launcher, Teleport homer.

115 pts

 

or

 

Predator: Auto cannon, 2 Las cannons.

120 pts

 

I thought the Teleport homer could be useful to get my Terminators in if the scouts are in a good position.

[pyroknight]

Overall, its a decent list.

 

The Dread is kind of dead weight

The chain firsts will be overkill against Tau, as rear armor 10 is their highest.

Thunder hammer will be the same effect as a powerfist (but cooler looking)

Assault squads should definitely have 2x flamers, but i would give one tactical a meltagun or plasma rifle. The bolters will deal with troops fine but a special weapon can let put some hurt on the battlesuits. Multi-metals will do fine on the tacticals as long as you get them close enough.

 

Not sure if you added an extra storm bolter to the rhinos, or are just stating that they come with one...

Anyway, dont put any upgrades on your rhinos. They wont live long enough to use it. They need to move as fast as possible and nothing else.

 

Depending on his list, but I would prefer the scout squad to the pred. If he has broadsides, the pred is going to let your rhino live another turn and not much else...

The scouts can force pinning checks on his awful leadership, or put some hurt on those battlesuits. The scouts won't do much damage, but they wont die quickly either. The teleport homer is kind of wasted on snipers however.

[Vourne]

The teleport homer is kind of wasted on snipers however.

 

My theory behind the teleport homer was to allow the Terminators to deepstrike without scattering if they are in a good position.

 

Not sure if you added an extra storm bolter to the rhinos, or are just stating that they come with one...

 

Yes, sorry this was just stating the one they come with.

 

The only reason I included the chainfists was beacuse that is the way I built them, but I can discount them for the battle in order to free up a few points. I'll also look at putting a melta gun in with one of the Tactical squads.

[W0lfie]

Depends on the type of tau army he's playing, but I'd say drop podding sternguard maybe be THE scariest thing a tau player can ever see (I should know, being primarily xenos scum and only an Emperor's Angel of Death when I'm bored of my little blue men). Other than that, land speeders are horrifying, especially when they deepstrike or get first turn (since melta is the only thing that is reliably threatening against tau tanks, and heavy flamers can one-shot FW squads). Other than that, drop pods, bolters (against crisis suits at least), speed and appropriate use of cover are what you want. I think the terminators are unnecessary-they are slow, they cannot perform a sweeping advance (which is devastating against tau) and the heavy flamer is actually a liability on infantry (likely to push you out of assault range, and you REALLY don't need to soften them up before charging). The land speeder is probably the only model that needs it, since it is fast enough to use it's flamer, and doesn't need to worry about rolling charge distance. The dreadnought also seems kind of unnecessary. It will just get wrecked by tau a little TOO easily. Also, any CC weapon other than a PW is too likely to overkill tau, so I would advise against the Thunder hammer.

 

Basically, drop the thunder hammer on the sergeant, the flamers on anything that isn't a Land Speeder, the dreadnought (just entirely) get rid of the terminators (without a land raider, they will either do nothing as they move up the board chasing 6+2d6" a turn suits unsuccessfully, or teleport in and get shot by an entire hunter cadre.) And add a different HQ (again, going back to CC upgrades being a waste of points), a AC/LC predator, A whirlwind and if you still have points, your scouts.

[Vourne]

Thanks for your advice. Please bare in mind however that this army is based on models that I currently own. Of course if I had more money to spare I would buy all the models I needed to create a tournament pwning machine!

I certainly will take your advise for future games. Unfortunately I don't have any drop pods or Sternguard yet, or they would certainly replace the Rhinos. Although I'm sure my opponent wouldn't mind me proxying these, although I prefer to play with WYSIWYG. I will remove the Dreadnought and probably replace with the scouts.

[MagicMan]

Your assault squad should be pretty handy for hunting down Tau vehicles too.

 

With their 3+ cover save, Tau vehicles are a real bitch to take down at range at the moment. About 90% of my Tau vehicle kills have been from close combat. They don't enjoy having a bunch of grenades stuck to their rear armour.

[pyroknight]

My theory behind the teleport homer was to allow the Terminators to deepstrike without scattering if they are in a good position.

I understand the theory, but in practice the sniper scouts don't usually get close enough to anything to make the homer worthwhile.

With the scout move, sniper scouts are lucky to get to midfield, but then they stay there most the game. You need those terminators to come in as close possible. If they were non-sniper scouts it would be a different story.

 

You are more than welcome to try it. Depending on table size and objective locations it could work in your favor.

 

Also while the hammer is overkill, instant death on his HQ and battlesuits is gratifying enough to warrant the points. Go for the HQ!

[W0lfie]

 

 

Also while the hammer is overkill, instant death on his HQ and battlesuits is gratifying enough to warrant the points. Go for the HQ!

 

The hammer is unnecessary, though, because 9/10 a whole bunch of PW attacks will tear his suits to pieces, and at initiative order! Dealing a bunch of unsaved wounds>Dealing a few instant death wounds for way more points.

 

Shooting is where you want to be instant killing suits. They DO go down like wheat before a scythe to rapid firing bolters, but if you're that close they'll rip you to shreds afterwards. The best suit killer is krak missiles. If you are positive that he is using a suit heavy army, then a Devastator rocket squad could do well, as well as rockets in Tac squads. If he is using broadsides, you may want to throw some lascannons into the tac squads, because they are simply too tough to go down any other way (krak missile just ping off their armour).