Long Fang alternatives ?

[irwit]

Hi all

 

Trying to put a list together and looking for a firebase alternative to Long Fangs ? I don't like the idea that near enough every wound taken lose me a ML. I also dont want to start using human shields as its not very "in the spirit of what a marine army should be.

 

I was looking at Predators but few people have mentioned swapping these for long fangs so obviously these arent really holding up as well as Long Fangs would?

 

I was also thinking a big WG unit with 2 cyclones but then it get expensive pretty quickly.

 

So finally what kind of allies would do as good a job?

[dswanick]

Unfortunately, for the price, there really is no viable alternative to Long Fangs in a static, defensive role.

 

For less than 100pts (the cost of a 5X ML pack), you can only get a Whirlwind. While the Indirect Fire and Ordnance is nice, it doesn't present a compelling choice over the 5 ML pack. That said, it is one unit I sometimes take, especially in a firebase/defensive role.

 

For the 100-150pts range (2X LC, 3X ML, 140pts), the competition is between a Predator (AC, 2X LC, 120pts) and a Dread (TLLC/TLAC, 145pts). Both units are better in a mobile/offensive role allowing the weapons to be fired on the move. The LF pack is still the better firebase choice.

 

If ML losses are a concern, the best you can hope for is to add an 18pt WGPL for the extra ablative wound. My experience is that I seldom use the Fire Control rule, so both the Pack Leader and the Squad Leader are expendable.

[irwit]

5 ML plus squad leader is 140pts ? I guess there isn't really an alternative is there. I was thinking 5 man WG pack with combi meltas in a pod. Comes to 150pts and a lot better for taking out that one large tank but I guess its not really fulfilling the same roll.

 

I like the idea of a whirlwind but again its not going to be really popping transports or 3+ ? A vindicator however ? What do you think to that as an option?

[greysquigg]

I recon they might work best in pairs. I could be wrong, and that is two slots you're using up. But perhaps with that front armour of 13 they could synergize well with a mech list?

 

Pro's

big old pie plate

relatively low cost? (i put a question mark because you technically get more out of a fang pack)

heavy front armour

easy to make it's points back if it hits (if)

works well in pairs

with the big plate you wouldn't have to worry quite so much about scatter like you do with a ML

can pop a LR

can instakill t5 (plague marines)

potential to take out a whole squad in one shot

 

 

Con's

115 pts for a unit that dies easily.

Could scatter a pie plate onto your own squad..

24" range

vulnerable for the first couple of turns as it get's into position

weak rear armour (deep striking units would kill it)

LF are more flexible and take longer to die

can be killed fairly easily by everything it's meant to kill

 

 

I could see how it would work with a mech list, or a footslogging list.

With a drop pod list? no way unless you use the pods on one side but even then isn't that going against why you bought them?

 

Would be interested to see a playtest.

 

Your probably going to get more out of a basilisk though I am going back a fair few years on that one.

 

GS

[skeletoro]

What are you replacing them for, specifically? If you want to kill armour, thunderwolves are actually OK at that. 3 thunderwolves with a power fist would set you back 175 points - not too much more than that unit of long fangs. They can't split fire, but they can make a disordered chance, which might occasionally be worth it vs multiple closely spaced cheap vehicles (5 str 5 attacks vs AV 10 has a decent chance of doing some damage - you could put the fist on one and the other two wolves on the other and stand a decent chance of seriously damaging or even destroying both). I've done this quite effectively against a leman russ squadron.

 

You can get 5 swiftclaws with melta bombs for 150 points. They kill any non-ceramite non-flier vehicle more effectively than long fangs. Once again, they can't split fire, but they can disordered charge (and vs vehicles, with melta bombs, they suffer no penalty whatsoever for doing so). That said, you have to contend with headstrong, which is a bit of a pain. But if you're hunting vehicles, it's not usually going to prevent you from doing what you want to do, right?

 

If you want to kill fliers, well, long fangs are pretty terrible at that anyway.

[Wulfebane]

Land speeder squadron for mobile gun platforms.

 

Alternatively, adding a RP or WP equipped to give stealth/imp. cover to a LF pack behind cover will increase survivability immensely.

[the jeske]

If you want to kill fliers, well, long fangs are pretty terrible at that anyway.

I wouldnt say that 5-7 re-rollable RL shots per turn are terrible at anti aircraft.

[dswanick]

If you want to kill fliers, well, long fangs are pretty terrible at that anyway.

I wouldnt say that 5-7 re-rollable RL shots per turn are terrible at anti aircraft.

253pts, 1 HQ, 1 Elite, and 1 Heavy Support slots for Twin-Linked BS1 Missiles?!? :lol:

You're better off spending 140pts for 4 Hyperios Launchers. 4 Twin-linked BS3 Skyfire/Interceptor.

[Guest Drunk Guardian]

What are you replacing them for, specifically? If you want to kill armour, thunderwolves are actually OK at that. 3 thunderwolves with a power fist would set you back 175 points - not too much more than that unit of long fangs. They can't split fire, but they can make a disordered chance, which might occasionally be worth it vs multiple closely spaced cheap vehicles (5 str 5 attacks vs AV 10 has a decent chance of doing some damage - you could put the fist on one and the other two wolves on the other and stand a decent chance of seriously damaging or even destroying both). I've done this quite effectively against a leman russ squadron.

 

You can get 5 swiftclaws with melta bombs for 150 points. They kill any non-ceramite non-flier vehicle more effectively than long fangs. Once again, they can't split fire, but they can disordered charge (and vs vehicles, with melta bombs, they suffer no penalty whatsoever for doing so). That said, you have to contend with headstrong, which is a bit of a pain. But if you're hunting vehicles, it's not usually going to prevent you from doing what you want to do, right?

 

If you want to kill fliers, well, long fangs are pretty terrible at that anyway.

 

Wow I like the Thunderwolves as a Long Fangs replacement. I never really thought of it that way before. 2 packs of 3 Thunderwolves, and 2 Vindicators... along with forward Grey Hunters in Rhinos... that's tasty.

[greysquigg]

 

Wow I like the Thunderwolves as a Long Fangs replacement. I never really thought of it that way before. 2 packs of 3 Thunderwolves, and 2 Vindicators... along with forward Grey Hunters in Rhinos... that's tasty.

 

I've been looking for an excuse not to field LF for ages. They don't really feel visceral enough and missile launchers cost allot to source.

 

GS

[Gman]

I have a similar dilema for a SW list that is still in the works, that I'm building for somene else. Not for hardcore competative play, just to have some wolf fun. So with that said, the characters were requested for the list, so I tried to build the list around them. Here is what it has so far.

 

Logan

Lukas

 

2 units of Grey Hunters and attached WG

1 unit of Blood Claws

1 drop pod

 

I was planning to utilize Logan making WG troops, and get a 5 man termi unit to put in the pod. Or maybe a 4 man termi unit with Logan. In some play testing in 5th Ed we used some Long Fangs and they were OK. I was not super impressed. Tried them with 2 LC and 3 ML, and all 5 ML. Meh. I don't like that you can't take extra ablative models for the unit.

So with 6th Ed now in play, and vehicles being easy to blow up, and the game being all about the scoring units, is there a better option for heavy weapons?

 

What the list needs is something long range to deal with tanks and transports. So not sure if maybe LR and put the Wolf Claws in it is a good idea, or load up the termi WG with heavy weapons is good. So I'm listening to suggestions for this army. First going to a 1500 pt list to start playing and getting into the game, and then expanding to more.