Emperors Immortals Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 Very cool, I still have a collection of mid-90's Angels of Death DA to complement my BA, so looks like Death Co a plenty with Greenwing support. DW/RW would also do very nicely for Sons of Medusa, which i was until now running as Seige Vanguard. :) BTW; you guys seriously deserved a good codex, now to bring out the CSM hell turkey against the dakkapole firebase ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/269551-da-firebase-maximising-use-of-the-standard-of-devastation/page/2/#findComment-3283784 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garath Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 4 "normal" tactical squads with heavy&special weapons 1 DW command squad (TH&SS ,CML) Character (don't know at this point) 32 bolters firing a possible 128 shots a turn,plus special weapons. By far the cheapest option, and the best one. Using the congo line- all squads will be in range of the Banner. Don't get me wrong , all the former ideas presented here(LR, ADL) are ok, But: -LR is an assault vehicle ,and by standing there just for the banner it's not fulfilling it's initial purpose -ADL is a decent bonus, but there are plenty of weapons that ignore it, and it leads to squads being clumped up behind it, so even more are hit and die.. A single barrage weapon will cause massive losses. It's better to just take more marines instead of it and spread out -Rhino is another wrong choice- it's an easy kill point Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/269551-da-firebase-maximising-use-of-the-standard-of-devastation/page/2/#findComment-3283862 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Landrain Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 -ADL is a decent bonus, but there are plenty of weapons that ignore it, and it leads to squads being clumped up behind it, so even more are hit and die.. A single barrage weapon will cause massive losses. It's better to just take more marines instead of it and spread out -Rhino is another wrong choice- it's an easy kill point The ADL + Darkshroud = 3+ coversaves for the troops and the Rhino... Yes some weapons ignore cover saves, but by the same logic, there are AP2 weapons so then you shouldn't use TDA... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/269551-da-firebase-maximising-use-of-the-standard-of-devastation/page/2/#findComment-3283890 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garath Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 ADL+Speeder+Rhino+crappy Command squad = DW command squad + more tactical marines. Plus... DW CS has +3 inv from shields. Nothing ignores that. They can and will stand 2" apart. Plasma cannons are unlikely to clip more then one or 2. Ditto above for tacticals. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/269551-da-firebase-maximising-use-of-the-standard-of-devastation/page/2/#findComment-3283960 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garath Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 · Hidden by Chaplain Lucifer, January 15, 2013 - double post Hidden by Chaplain Lucifer, January 15, 2013 - double post sorry double post Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/269551-da-firebase-maximising-use-of-the-standard-of-devastation/page/2/#findComment-3283962
Zeller Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 A bike does't modify the boltguns range rof constraints. You can't rapid fire at full range just because you've mounted the gun on a bike which means salvo will give you two shots at range and 4 in rapid fire. The fact you're on a bike merely means you can charge afterwards. I've heard talk that the term boltgun in the BRB apparently includes the flyer's cannon as well which sounds wrong. Any clarification? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/269551-da-firebase-maximising-use-of-the-standard-of-devastation/page/2/#findComment-3284296 Share on other sites More sharing options...
notmattlythgoe Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 A bike does't modify the boltguns range rof constraints. You can't rapid fire at full range just because you've mounted the gun on a bike which means salvo will give you two shots at range and 4 in rapid fire. The fact you're on a bike merely means you can charge afterwards. I've heard talk that the term boltgun in the BRB apparently includes the flyer's cannon as well which sounds wrong. Any clarification? I thought being on a bike meant you counted as not having moved, so that would mean no matter what they would get the 4 shot salvo at full range. Salvo doesn't double the shots fired, it has it's own special rules. If moved 2 shots at half range, if stationary 4 shots at full range. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/269551-da-firebase-maximising-use-of-the-standard-of-devastation/page/2/#findComment-3284301 Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlauG Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 You know... now I think about it, how about Drop-pod Tactical Marines, a Deathwing Squad to harass on an alternative flank in Turn 1... and Belial in a DW Command Squad with the Standard of Devastation, coming down Turn 2? Dropping 40ish Tactical Marines one enemy flank, the Deathwing on the other, and then use Belial's squad, who don't scatter, to put the standard within 6" of each Tactical squad that dropped. A much more aggressive use of the Standard, but it hinges on your ability to survive the enemy's counterattack for a turn, and hopefully not get bogged down in CC. You'd keep Ravenwing on the board to satisfy the Reserves limit, and then zoom THEM up to the Deathwing on turn 2 and get someone in that 6" bulletbubble. edit: Nevermind, can't read! Double edit: notmattlythgoe: Not true! "If the model has not moved, it can instead fire a greater number of shots at the target up to the weapon's maximum range". And since Relentless means you count as being stationary, you can always fire max shots, up to max range. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/269551-da-firebase-maximising-use-of-the-standard-of-devastation/page/2/#findComment-3284461 Share on other sites More sharing options...
notmattlythgoe Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 You know... now I think about it, how about Drop-pod Tactical Marines, a Deathwing Squad to harass on an alternative flank in Turn 1... and Belial in a DW Command Squad with the Standard of Devastation, coming down Turn 2? Dropping 40ish Tactical Marines one enemy flank, the Deathwing on the other, and then use Belial's squad, who don't scatter, to put the standard within 6" of each Tactical squad that dropped. A much more aggressive use of the Standard, but it hinges on your ability to survive the enemy's counterattack for a turn, and hopefully not get bogged down in CC. You'd keep Ravenwing on the board to satisfy the Reserves limit, and then zoom THEM up to the Deathwing on turn 2 and get someone in that 6" bulletbubble. edit: Nevermind, can't read! Double edit: notmattlythgoe: Not true! "If the model has not moved, it can instead fire a greater number of shots at the target up to the weapon's maximum range". And since Relentless means you count as being stationary, you can always fire max shots, up to max range. That's exactly what I was saying. Ravenwing will always be able to fire 4 shots at 24". I was just stating the salvo rule, sorry if that was confusing. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/269551-da-firebase-maximising-use-of-the-standard-of-devastation/page/2/#findComment-3284471 Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlauG Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 ...Sorry, yes, you're right. I still can't read, apparently, and somehow read what you were arguing against into what you were saying! :P This is what I get for using B&C to procrastinate... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/269551-da-firebase-maximising-use-of-the-standard-of-devastation/page/2/#findComment-3284480 Share on other sites More sharing options...
From Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 Relentless counts as though you haven't moved i.e. 4 shots. If only landraider crusaders could get salvo 2/4 on their huricane bolters. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/269551-da-firebase-maximising-use-of-the-standard-of-devastation/page/2/#findComment-3284866 Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlauG Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 Relentless counts as though you haven't moved i.e. 4 shots. If only landraider crusaders could get salvo 2/4 on their huricane bolters. But they can! A Hurricane Bolter is "consists of three Twin-linked Boltguns, fired as a single weapon", therefore it should be valid for the Banner's effect. And that's even without getting into the "Boltgun as a category" debate. ;) One of my personal "Standard of Devastation abuse" lists accordingly involves three LRCs... And my Greenwing ones involve hiding the Command Squad in one! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/269551-da-firebase-maximising-use-of-the-standard-of-devastation/page/2/#findComment-3284877 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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