Codex: Sons of Sanguinius

[SnorriSnorrison]

The first question that comes to mind is....'Are you mad?! The codex is
two years old and you're crying for a new one! What about us we didn't get a codex since the dawn of time' bla bla bla.

Calm down, you naysayers, I'm not desperately crying for a new codex, ours is quite fine. There are however, from my personal point of view, some issues that need to be adressed, so I thought with the new template of the Chaos and Dark Angels codex, I'd give it a try.

This is not meant to make the Blood Angels the Ultramarines of Mat Ward(=kings of everyone and their dog), but to create background of our chapter and to implement the fluff with the existing rules, create new ones where seen fit and generally to implement ideas for coming codizes.


Please note that this isn't thought as my personal work alone. I thought this to be a community work, those who show interest are welcome to post their ideas, twitchings to the stuff I or others wrote in this thread. It's a kind of spin-off from the wishlisting thread, but with a more
serious approach than pure wishlisting to avoid becoming a stupidly overpowered fanboi-dex.


Anyway, here we go!

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Codex: Sons of Sanguinius

The Blood
Angels:



Special rules:

- They shall know no fear
- Combat Squads
- Red Thirst
- Descent of Angels
- Sons of Sanguinius

- TSKNF: See Main Rulebook.

- Combat Squads: as before.

Red Thirst:

Due to their geneseed and the flaw that lies within, the Blood Angels have a constant and strong lust for battle, bloodshed and violence. A great part of their training aims on keeping that Thirst in check, however it is barely contained on the battlefield, where the Sons of Sanguinius charge ferociously into the lines of the enemy to tear him apart, limb from limb.

Roll for a die for every squad with this special rule at the beginning of your turn. On a 1-3, the squad rolled for replaces ‘They shall know no fear’ with the Rage USR and Fearless. On a 4-6, the Blood Angels have remembered the face of their father and not given in to the bloodlust that lurks within their souls, nothing happens.

Descent of
Angels: as before.

Sons of Sanguinius:

The Blood Angels are the children of the great Sanguinius, the angelic Primarch of the Ninth Legion. They adhere to his teachings where lesser chapter have forgotten about their past, his heritage is still strong in their blood and geneseed and so are some of his innate abilities. His massive, angelic wings allowed Sanguinius to fly, and his sons hold the memory of this feature to the present day. On the battlefield, the Blood Angels are unmatched with their use of airforce and especially jump-packs, which are closest to the experience of descending from the sky like their angelic genefather did during the Great
Crusade.

Blood Angels with this special rule can make full use of their jump-packs, therefore they may move 12” and also use the jump-pack during the assault phase. This means they are allowed to re-roll their charge distance and get Hammer of Wrath attacks
after a successful charge into base contact (consider the main rulebook for more detail).

Armoury of the Blood Angels

As a chapter with a constant strife for perfection, appreciation for art, detail and the creation thereof, it is not surprising that the Blood Angel’s armoury is filled with the finest weapons , gears and relics in the entire Imperium, created by the skilled artificers of the past and present. Many of the equipment stored in the vast chambers on Baal is in use since the days of the Great Crusade and therefore handled with extreme care and only given out in times of great need and only to the most highly-ranked officers.

Armoury of the Host



The Armoury of the Host contains the most valuable weapons, finest suits of
armour and many other devices that the Blood Angels have gathered, forged and kept
over the past. Only the highest officers in the Chapter have access to it and
must swear holy oaths to return the equipment in one piece.

The Angels’ Blade--------------------------> 30 points, one per army, ²

This power sword is of great and ancient technology and probably created during the dark days of the Great Crusade as a present for a high-ranked officer in the Ninth Legion. It’s golden shimmer and beautifully crafted detail disguises the might that lies within, for it is able to cleave through the thickest of armour while being an extremely light weapon to wield.

Powersword. Replaces close-combat weapon. Attacks with the Angel’s Blade are counted as AP 2, while striking at unmodified initiative value.

Grail ------------------------------------------> 25 points, one per army ³

These chalices are used in the most holy ceremonies of the Chapter. Over the past ten millennia, many were lost or destroyed, and the remaining pieces are only given out to the Sanguinary High Priests or high-ranked Chaplains and only with good reasoning, for a loss of even one Grail is a great blow for the Chapter. Blood Angels around this holy relic are inspired to the greatest deeds of heroism and fight with a righteous fury unknown to man.

Gear. Does not replace any weapons. The Grailhas two functions, depending on who’s bearing it into battle.



Sanguinary High Priest:

When carried by a Sanguinary High Priest, the Grail can be filled with his blood to
strengthen his wounded brothers with the might of the Primarch’s vitae itself.

A unit with an attached SHP carrying a Grail gains the USR Feel no Pain(4+).



Chaplain:

In the hands of a Chaplain, the heralds of death and will of the Emperor, the Grails’ aura fills the hearts of the faithful with righteous wrath and furious anger.

A unit with an attached Chaplain carrying a Grail gets +W3 attacks on the charge, not just +1.

Does not work with Death Company.

The Blessed Chapter Banner -------------------------------------> 90 points, one per army.


The oldest, most revered Chapter Banner that displays Sanguinius on the zenith ofhis might. It is said that the Primarch himself blessed this banner, and its effects on the battle-brothers around it are indeed remarkable.

Gear. Does not replace any weapons. The unit that carries the Blessed Chapter Banner has the USR Stubborn and Countercharge. Every Blood Angel unit in 12” around the Banner Bearer gains +1 attack and fearless. If the Banner Bearer dies, the Banner becomes an objective that is worth +2 Victory points for the Blood Angels. In addition, every Blood Angel unit in 3” around the objective marker gains the USR Preferred Enemy(all).

Scroll of the Primarch-----------------------------------------------20 points, one per army, one use.

In his life, Sanguinius wrote hundreds of his visions down on parchment in his tower in the Blood Angels’ Fortress Monastery on Baal. Some hold the paths to the future, and some seem to have the power to keep the Ruinous Powers of the warp at bay.

For Librarians only. Wargear, doesn’t replace any weapons. Once after a failed psychic test, the Librarian may re-roll one of the dice that were used, he must however accept the second result even if it is worse than the previous one.

Book of the Lost------------------------------------------------------20 points, one per army

Every brother lost to the hauling claws of the Black Rage is dead to the chapter, but his name is not. The Keepers of Names take great care to include every brother who’s met a merciful death on the battlefield after falling to the Black Rage into these foliants, heavy leatherbound books of which some date back thousands of years.

For Chaplains only. Wargear, doesn’t replace any weapons. If a Chaplain with the Book of the Lost is attached to a unit, their Liturgies of Hate last an additional turn.

Generic wargear:

Glaive Encarmine---------------------------------------------------see unit entry

two-handed, mastercrafted powerweapons with the following profile:

S: +1 AP 3 (powersword)

S: +2 AP 2 Unwieldy (poweraxe).

Blood
Angels Captain------------------------------> 90 pts

WS BS S T WI A LD Type:Infantry(IC)

6 5 4 4 3 5 4 10

Gear:

- Power armour
- Bolt Pistol
- Chainsword
- Iron Halo
- Frag & Krak Grenades

Special rules:
- Red Thirst
- Independent Character
- First among equals
- Sons of Sanguinius
- A company needs its Captain

Options:

- may replace Power Armour with Artificer Armour for 15 points.
- May replace Boltpistol and/or Chainsword with the following:

- Infernus Pistol/PlasmaPistol 15 points
- Handflamer 10 points
- Stormbolter 3 points
- Power Weapon 15 points
- Thunderhammer 30 points
- Powerfist 25 points
- Stormshield 15 points
- Glaive Encarmine 15 points
- Lightning Claw 15 points
- Combiweapons for 10 points



- May replace all gear with Terminator Armour, Iron Halo, Powerweapon and stormbolter for 40 points.

- May then replace powerweapon with

- Powerfist 10 points
-Thunderhammer 15 points
- Lightning Claw for free

- May then replace Stormbolter with

-Stormshield 10 points
- Powerfist 10 points
-Thunderhammer 15 points
- Lightning Claw for free
-Combiweapons for 10 points

- When not in Terminator Armour, may ride a Space Marine Bike for 30 points.
- When not in Terminator Armour, may buy a Jump Pack for 10 points.

- May buy Hellfire rounds for 5 points
- May buy digital weapons for 10 points.
- May upgrade any weapon to mastercrafted for 10 point/weapon.
- May buy Auxiliary Grenade launcher for 10 points.
- May buy Adamantine Mantle for 35 points.

May purchase items from the Armoury of the Host for a total of no more than 100 points.



First among equals:
Wheneverthe Blood Angels’ forces are sent out to fight the enemies of mankind, they are commanded by high-ranked veterans of hundreds of battles and with even more hundreds of years of experience in the art of war. The Captains of the Blood Angels are the Chapter Master’s most trusted advisors, and always lead elements of one or several companies into battle.

To represent this, Blood Angels Captains must be the Warlord of the Blood Angel detachment if chosen unless a higher-ranked officer is also present in the force, in which case you may choose who is the Warlord. Furthermore, Captains and other models with this special rule may roll 2D6 on the Warlord Chart and choose one of the dice. In case that the Blood Angel Warlord Chart is used, Captains and other models with this special rule may pick the trait on the chart instead of rolling a die for it.



A company needs its Captain:

Every task force that is sent off into the depths of space from Baal is led by a Captain, trusted advisor or at least very experienced officer of the Blood Angels Chapter. Each officer is different from the other and therefore prefers different types of armour, wargear and battlefield tactics to lead the mission to success.


If a Blood Angels Captain is your Warlord and equipped with Terminator Armour, up to one(1) squad of Terminators may count as count as a Troop choice for all purposes.If a Blood Angels Captain is your Warlord and equipped with Artificer Armour, up to one(1) squad of either Sanguinary Guard or Assault Veterans may count as a Troop choice for all purposes.

If a Blood Angels Captain is your Warlord and equipped with a Space Marine
Bike, up to one(1) bike squadron(but no Assault Bikes or Scout Bikes) may count
as a Troop choice for all purposes.

Blood Angels
Librarian-----------------------------> 80 points.

WS BS S T W I A LD Type:Infantry(IC)

5 4 4 4 2 4 2 10



Gear: Special rules:
- Power Armour -Red Thirst
- Force Weapon -Independent Character
- Psychic Hood -Psyker(Mastery Level 1)
- Frag & Krak Grenades -Sons of Sanguinius
- Bolt Pistol

- May purchase up to one(1) mastery level at 40 points.

- May buy a Jump Pack for 10 points.
- May buy a Space Marine Bike for 30 points.
- May replace Bolt pistol with:

-Handflamer 10 points
-Plasma Pistol 15 points
-Combiweapons 10 points.

- May exchange all gear for Terminator Armour, Force Weapon, Psychic Hood, Stormbolter for 40 points.

- May then replace Stormbolter with Stormshield 10 points
- May replace Stormbolter with Combi weapons 10 points



- May buy digital weapons 10 points
- May buy hellfire rounds 10 points
- May upgrade one(1) weapon to mastercrafted for 10 points.

May choose items suitable for him from the Armoury of the Host for a total of 20 points.

Blood Angels Reclusiarch------------------------> 120 points

WS BS S T W I A LD Type: Infantry(IC)

5 5 4 4 3 5 3 10

Gear: Special rules:

- Power Armour -Red Thirst
- Crozius Arcanum -Independent Character
- Bolt Pistol -Leaders of the Lost
- Frag & Krak Grenade -Sons of Sanguinius
- Death Mask -Honour of the Chapter
- Rosarius -Liturgies of Hate



Options:

- May replace Bolt Pistol with

- Power weapon 15 points
- Powerfist 20 points
- Thunderhammer 30 points
- Infernus Pistol, Plasma Pistol 15 point
- Handflamer 10 points

If not in Terminator Armour, may buy Jump Pack for 10 points.
If not in Terminator Armour, may buy Space Marine bike for 30 points.

May buy Hellfire rounds for 10 points.

May buy digital weapons for 10 points.

May upgrade one(1) weapon to mastercrafted for 10 points.

May exchange Power Armour, Frag & Krak Grenades and Bolt Pistol for Terminator Armour and Stormbolter for 40 points. Other gear remains unchanged.

- May then replace Stormbolter with

-power weapon for free
- Powerfist 10 points
-Thunderhammer 15 points
-Combiweapons 10 points



May choose items suitable for him from the Armoury of the Host for a total of 25 points.

Death Mask:

The helmets worn by the Chaplains of the Blood Angels resemble blank skulls, which further mystify these already imposing individuals. In battle, these formidable warriors are found on the front-lines of battle, chanting the liturgies of the Primarch and the Emperor and strike terror inside the hearts of weaker enemies.

Models equipped with a Death Mask cause Fear. In addition, enemy units that have to pass a leadership test after they lost a
close combat in which a model with a Death Mask is involved, modify their leadership by -1.



Leaders of the Lost:

In addition to their already manifold tasks, the Chaplains of the Blood Angels take care for those who are overwhelmed by the visions of Sanguinius’ death on the eve of battle and include them into the Death Company. It is also their duty to perform the last rites and to lead their fallen brothers into battle to grant them an honourable and clean death through the hands of the enemies of mankind, while pushing their madness and rage to new highs by chanting the liturgies of hate and death.

Chaplains don’t have the option of being accompanied by a Blood Angels Honour Guard as other characters and as such don’t generate the option of selecting a unit of Honour Guard from the army list.

However if they lead the Death Company, their Liturgies of Hate have a much greater effect on the black-armoured brethren around them. To represent this, Chaplains and the unit of Death Company they’re with re-roll to-hit and to-wound rolls on the turn they charge.


A Chaplain that is not with a unit of DC only allows him and his squad to re-roll to-hit rolls on the turn they charge, as written in the Litanies of Hate paragraph.

0-1 Sanguinary High Priest -------------------------> 75 points

WS BS S T W I A LD Type: Infantry(IC)

5 5 4 4 2 4 3 10

Wargear:

- Power Armour
- Narthecium
- Bolt Pistol
- Chainsword
- Frag Grenades
- Krak Grenades

Special rules:

- Independent Character
- Chosen of Sanguinius
- Red Thirst
- Sons of Sanguinius

Options:

- May replace Bolt Pistol with

- Power weapon 15 points
- Powerfist 25 points
- Thunderhammer 30 points
- Infernus Pistol, Plasma Pistol 15 points
- Handflamer 10 points



May exchange current wargear for Terminator Armour, Narthecium and powerweapon for 40 points.

- May then replace powerweapon with
- Powerfist 10 points
-Thunderhammer 15 points

- If not in Terminator Armour, may buy a jump-pack for 10 points
- If not in Terminator Armour, may buy Space Marine bike for 30 points
- May upgrade one(1) weapon to mastercrafted for 10 points.

May buy items suitable for him from the Armoury of the Host for a total of 25 points.

Narthecium:

The Narthecium is the trademark of the Apothecary’s appearance and also a very useful tool in battle, where the Apothecary heals gruesome wounds within seconds and gives those whose wounds are too severe to heal the peace and mercyof the Emperor. It is also very important to extract the geneseed of fallenSpace Marines so the Chapter can survive and build new recruits.

Every unit from Codex: Sons of Sanguinius within 6” of a model with a Narthecium gains the USR Feel no Pain.

Also, every unit with the rule Red Thirst within 6” of a model with a Narthecium gain the Furious Charge USR.

Chosen of Sanguinius:

The Sanguinary High Priests are the most high-ranked Apothecaries in the Chapter
and due to them being living containers of Sanguinius’ blood, are highly
revered by their battle-brothers.

Blood Angels in 6” of the Sanguinary High Priest may re-roll their to-hit rolls on the turn they charged.

Commander Dante, Lord of the Blood Angels --------------------------------------- 230 points

WS BS S T W I A LD

7 5 4 4 4 6 4 10



Wargear: Special rules:

- Artificer Armour - Lord of the Angelic Host
- Iron Halo - I’ve seen it all
- Infernus Pistol - Master of warfare
- the Axe Mortalis - Deathly Precision
- Jump Pack
- Krak & Frag Grenades
- Deathmask of Sanguinius

Lord of the Angelic Host:

Commander Dante is the Lord of the Blood Angels Space Marine Chapter, the glorious former IXth Legion, and to his command
stand ressources that other generals, even other Space Marines, would kill for to have at theirs.

When Dante is in your army, he has to be the Warlord. Also, his presence means that you may take Sanguinary Guard as Troops, as well as an extra D3 units from the Elite/Fast Attack slots that count as scoring. For example, a squad of Assault Terminators and a squad of Assault Veterans may count as scoring units when Dante is present, considering that you rolled a 3-4 on the D3.



When Dante selects a unit of Honour Guard from the Force Organisation Plan, it unlocks the [special chapter champion] and the [special banner bearer] in the unit entry. Note that only Dante can be attached to that squad, but he doesn’t have to.


I’ve seen it all:

For over a thousand years, Dante has led the Blood Angels through the darkest shadows of alien invasions, through deception and heresy and through everything the forces of darkness and evil can muster to victory. His rule is absolute, his will strong and his hate on the enemies of mankind ever so relentless.

[company veteran]

i like it. Not stupidly overpowered which is refreshing.. i find it galling that a lot of peoples wishlisting amounts to EVERYTHINGS 100X BETTER!!

 

i love the sons of sanguinius rule.. awesome enough to be pretty badass.. yet not overpowered.

 

make sure when you do death company that eviscarators or heavy chainswords are an option!

[company veteran]

i think that the chaplains death company ability might be a bit much.. maybe that ability can be an upgrade..

Keeper of the lost: 20pts.. or something like that.

[JAMOB]

Am I reading this wrong or are captains/reclusiarchs s3 and libbies s2? Thats... thats actually insane. I dont like it. Marines are supposed to be twice as strong/tough as an average human, having a libby at s2 is just... not good...

Other than that, I really like this. Good, but not overpowered. It adds a nice flair to the army that has been lost to a degree in 6th.

Im confused about the grail though. Who would ever take that... like, ever...

[Ushtarador]

DC already reroll to hit and to wound with chaplains, that's nothing new ^^

I really like the Angel Blade and that it is not available to librarians, finally makes taking captains and reclusiarchs an interesting option. Now write a profile for a sanguinary high priest as well

@jamob you're confusing S with W

[SnorriSnorrison]

make sure when you do death company that eviscarators or heavy chainswords are an option!

I'll definitely think about that! Thanks for the input!

i think that the chaplains death company ability might be a bit much.. maybe that ability can be an upgrade..

Keeper of the lost: 20pts.. or something like that.

As Ushtarador said, our Chaplains actually make DC re-roll their wounds in our current codex.

Am I reading this wrong or are captains/reclusiarchs s3 and libbies s2? Thats... thats actually insane. I dont like it. Marines are supposed to be twice as strong/tough as an average human, having a libby at s2 is just... not good...

Again, Ushtarador said it. Somehow the lines have been shifted to this mess, I'll try to fix it!

Other than that, I really like this. Good, but not overpowered. It adds a nice flair to the army that has been lost to a degree in 6th.

Im confused about the grail though. Who would ever take that... like, ever...

Glad you like it! Maybe the Grail is a little bit useless. I took a lot of inspiration from the 3rd Edition codex, where the Grail made Blood Angels roll another dice when pursuing and discard the lowest.

Any ideas on the effects of the grail? I thought that +1 attack would have been too powerful, especially with the Banner doing exactly that. I'm all ears for suggestions.

I really like the Angel Blade and that it is not available to librarians, finally makes taking captains and reclusiarchs an interesting option. Now write a profile for a sanguinary high priest as well

Thanks, glad you like it so far! If any of you has got suggestions for better names for stuff, please, post it here. I was just strolling along the 'Angels'-route rather than the whole 'Blood'-thing, which I find much more annoying. Bloodstrike-missiles, pah.

Sanguinary High Priest is being worked on!

Another thing: similar to the BBcode headers, does anyone know how to create these BBcode 'tables' where you can have seperate fields for the stats from the profile of a marine? Those would be very helpful for the next unit entrys. It's quite urgent, my search-fu didn't give me any results.

Thanks in advance!

Snorri

[fivepointedstar]

I like this one better then the GW official one!

As the first thing I was peeved about was the fluff emphasis on the Blood Angels master crafting their arms, and armors. Yet we got nothing to show for it except a infernus, and hand flamer option for our captians. ( nothing special as Battle sisters HQ rock these choices too) And then the Sang Guards being the flying terminators they are, and not the fluffy wsuper elites they are supose to be. I was sad to see them at the same stats as a veteran, and not at least WS 5, or 6. Heck they are the elite Honor Guards. Veterans of countless battles, and heralds of Sanguinius yet there main perk was artificer armor, and jump packs :(

I like the newer Chaplains you've made they are far more balanced, and funtional now. Plus the Captian as a must have in armies. Sure wish that was something they made while we were in 5th ed. I was getting tired of seeing double Librarian list's. Keep up the good work. And if I may add in a wish list request... AGL's on VV's please.

[Black_Sky]

Captain Plasma pistol - 10 points.

Captain Hand flamer - 5 points.

 

I know that breaks GW's standardised points costs, but really, 10 and 15 points is way too expensive for what you get.

 

Also, the Angels Blade. Ap 2 power sword is nice, But would an Ap 2 Glaive be fluffier? (two handed, master crafted, ap 2)

[company veteran]

how about being within 6'' of the grail gives +1 int on the charge?

 

oh and my bad with the death company rule... derp!!

[SnorriSnorrison]

Alright guys, update! Between painting and work, this is what I've done over the last two days. I think I'll need your input because there are a lot of things that can change the balance of the codex(to the worse, unfortunately), so I need to know if there's anything that's overpowered.

 

 

I like this one better then the GW official one!

I like the newer Chaplains you've made they are far more balanced, and funtional now. Plus the Captian as a must have in armies. Sure wish that was something they made while we were in 5th ed. I was getting tired of seeing double Librarian list's. Keep up the good work. And if I may add in a wish list request... AGL's on VV's please.

Thanks man, glad you like it! One thing though, what are AGLs? Auxiliary Grenade Launchers?

 

 

Captain Plasma pistol - 10 points.

Captain Hand flamer - 5 points.

 

I know that breaks GW's standardised points costs, but really, 10 and 15 points is way too expensive for what you get.

 

Also, the Angels Blade. Ap 2 power sword is nice, But would an Ap 2 Glaive be fluffier? (two handed, master crafted, ap 2)

Not so sure, since a Plasma Pistol is still very powerful, especially when considering that you can have an initiative 6(made some changes in the main post!) Captain striking at AP2. I can't see how another AP2 shot should be made any cheaper.

 

The Handflamer is there because for completeness' sake, actually. You're right, 10 points is far to cheap, and the weapon itself is rubbish on a Captain. ;)

 

Regarding the glaive, not sure what you mean, since they are actually ceremonial weapons of the Sanguinary Guard. I've included it in the profile because I think we could spread them out a bit more, also I've updated their profile a little bit. I think the sword is fine the way it is, maybe a tad cheap for what it does. On the other hand, the glaive wouldn't get the +1 attack from two close-combat weapons, would it?

 

 

 

Snorri

[fivepointedstar]

Thanks man, glad you like it! One thing though, what are AGLs? Auxiliary Grenade Launchers?

yep AGL = Auxiliary Grenade Launchers.

[SnorriSnorrison]

Thanks man, glad you like it! One thing though, what are AGLs? Auxiliary Grenade Launchers?

yep AGL = Auxiliary Grenade Launchers.

 

Mh, but why? To this day, the only reason ever to take Vanguard Veterans is to have them do their Heroic Intervention, before which they are not allowed to shoot.

So it's a bit superfluous to add a shooting weapon to their wargear-options that they wouldn't use, isn't it? :lol:

 

I might be overlooking something, but hey. Any reason in particular why they should have them? Please let me know! :)

 

Snorri

[fivepointedstar]

Thanks man, glad you like it! One thing though, what are AGLs? Auxiliary Grenade Launchers?

yep AGL = Auxiliary Grenade Launchers.

Mh, but why? To this day, the only reason ever to take Vanguard Veterans is to have them do their Heroic Intervention, before which they are not allowed to shoot.

So it's a bit superfluous to add a shooting weapon to their wargear-options that they wouldn't use, isn't it?

I might be overlooking something, but hey. Any reason in particular why they should have them? Please let me know!

Snorri

Once the VV do their HI assault and end up ( possibly) wiping out that squad. They move, and attack with their normal abilities. And their only ranged special weapons are the Infernus, Plasma, and Hand Flamer pistols. I could see the VV employing AGL's to assist in there ability to flush out enemy in cover prior to going on the attack. But the Honor Guards would actually be better equipped with an AGL's now that I think of it.

[Erasmus of Baal]

Overall, Snorri, I think that this is looking great. However, I do have a few minor issues with it:

• Should all of the Blood Angels get the "Sons of Sanguinius" special rule just like they do "Descent of Angels"? If so, shouldn't that be a change to Jump Packs rather than to the individual unit entries? If not, why don't Vanguard Veterans get it when the Chaplains do?
  
• Please define "adamantine mantle" or reference where the definition is.
  
• Please define "digital weapons" or tell me where the definition you wanted to use is.
  
• Why can some characters take Hellfire rounds? Is there something unusually special about the other types of special-issue ammuntion? They should either have all types as a lumped option or at least have each ammo type as an option.
  
• Do you think that the Auxiliary Grenade Launchers should be available to most Blood Angels units as a generic special weapon, or just to the Captain?
  
• The Sanguinary High Priest and the Reclusiarch both mention taking items "suitable for him" from the Armory. Would you please explain what you meant by this?
  
• You don't have anyone listed who can take the 90-point Blessed Chapter Banner. Who could take this item?
  

I know it's all rather nit-picky, but I was reformatting it to make it easier for me to understand so I kinda got into the nitty-gritty of it.

[SnorriSnorrison]

Overall, Snorri, I think that this is looking great. However, I do have a few minor issues with it:

• Should all of the Blood Angels get the "Sons of Sanguinius" special rule just like they do "Descent of Angels"? If so, shouldn't that be a change to Jump Packs rather than to the individual unit entries? If not, why don't Vanguard Veterans get it when the Chaplains do?
  
• Please define "adamantine mantle" or reference where the definition is.
  
• Please define "digital weapons" or tell me where the definition you wanted to use is.
  
• Why can some characters take Hellfire rounds? Is there something unusually special about the other types of special-issue ammuntion? They should either have all types as a lumped option or at least have each ammo type as an option.
  
• Do you think that the Auxiliary Grenade Launchers should be available to most Blood Angels units as a generic special weapon, or just to the Captain?
  
• The Sanguinary High Priest and the Reclusiarch both mention taking items "suitable for him" from the Armory. Would you please explain what you meant by this?
  
• You don't have anyone listed who can take the 90-point Blessed Chapter Banner. Who could take this item?
  

I know it's all rather nit-picky, but I was reformatting it to make it easier for me to understand so I kinda got into the nitty-gritty of it.

All those are valid points, Erasmus, and I'll adress them one by one so you get some hopefully satisfying answers!

1. Yes, you have a point there. In hindsight, after two nights of sleep over it, I'm not quite sure if the new rule was needed, perhaps it would save me some time to simply buff 'Descent of Angels' and add the new stuff. I even took most of the fluff for the new rule from the paragraph of DoA! And then added some stuff I'd read somewhere else in the codex. Secondly, the easiest answer is that I'm working on the HQ section first, and I haven't got to do the Veterans.

2. As in the 4th edition C:SM: A Captain with an Adamantine Mantle gains Eternal Warrior. That's the short, updated version, translated from 4th to 6th edition.

3. As in 5th edition C:SM: A model with Digital Weapons may re-roll one(I think) failed to-wound roll if it shows a 1.

4. Again, this is only copied from C:SM where Captains can have those special rounds but none of the other special ammunition. I don't think a Captain should be able to get all of the different types of rounds like Tycho, so he's still kinda unique. Also, I'm not so sure whether Sternguard have a place in our codex...

5. I think that AGLs should be able to at least the Captain, and maybe the Honour Guard as well. Reasoning behind this is because we 'only' have that one squad to act as a retinue for a character where C:SM has two, actually. We should put some of both units into one, without going over the top with it.

6. The whole 'suitable' thing is there because initially, I intended to make our armoury quite big, many items and other wargear. For that purpose, I've added a small change to the options so nobody would come up with some sort of unfluffy wargear for a character. Right now, this is kept in check by the point restrictions, however I'll try to think of some stuff that is available for a smaller amount of points and that could possibly be taken by all - so some restrictions where fitting are needed.

7. The banner I think will only be available for the Chapter Master's Honour Guard, since it's quite expensive, and then very very old and revered and all that. I wanted to prevent people from taking the banner in a 1500-ish game with a ordinary Captain or Librarian and say 'hey, this banner is crazy good so I went for it!'.

You know, implementing the fluff in the rules, and try not to suck at it.

Snorri

[Erasmus of Baal]

1.

That's fine. I'm aiming more for understanding than criticism right now. (Though, in all honesty, I'm also actively looking for places to expand upon your ideas.)

2. As in the 4th edition C:SM: A Captain with an Adamantine Mantle gains Eternal Warrior. That's the short, updated version, translated from 4th to 6th edition.

3. As in 5th edition C:SM: A model with Digital Weapons may re-roll one(I think) failed to-wound roll if it shows a 1.

Do you think that these would be acceptable to print in C:SoS despite being official rules elsewhere? I know that the rules concerning reprinting GW's official material are a bit odd.

4. Again, this is only copied from C:SM where Captains can have those special rounds but none of the other special ammunition. I don't think a Captain should be able to get all of the different types of rounds like Tycho, so he's still kinda unique. Also, I'm not so sure whether Sternguard have a place in our codex...

5. I think that AGLs should be able to at least the Captain, and maybe the Honour Guard as well. Reasoning behind this is because we 'only' have that one squad to act as a retinue for a character where C:SM has two, actually. We should put some of both units into one, without going over the top with it.

I, for one, believe that the Sternguard really need to be in there. They seem an odd fit, but it's a great way to represent mechanically the fluff that the Blood Angels are, technically, a Codex Chapter. Also, I think Tycho is still pretty special without being the only HQ with access to all the special issue ammunition.

Aside from that, though, I'm noticing a theme that sounds to me very much like "We should have it because C:SM has it." Are the AGLs and limitations on ammo availability so central to something that they need to be preserved?

6. The whole 'suitable' thing is there because initially, I intended to make our armoury quite big, many items and other wargear. ....

What about subdivisions within the armory - these special, one-of items are some kind of "Grand Armory" or "Upper Armory", while other weapons would be sections (Pistols, Melee, Special, Heavy, Terminator, etc.) of a "Common Armory" or "Lower Armory"? Then, rather than having things marked in the armory for who could and could not take them, the unit's entry could just say "May take any item from the Pistol of Melee sections of the Lower Armory for the appropriate points cost" or somesuch. Like the idea?

7. The banner I think will only be available for the Chapter Master's Honour Guard....

You know, implementing the fluff in the rules, and try not to suck at it.

Oh, you're absolutely not sucking at it. I think that the fact that the Banner is only available when the Chapter Master is taken is perfectly appropriate; that just needs to be stated in the rules.

[Red Fury]

Wait, so anybody within 6" of a High priest gets: 5+FNP, +1 In, AND rerolls to hit on the charge. For 80points!? Seems OP to me.

 

I know your trying to bring back the rerolls to the High priest like the oldendays, but perhaps change it to:

 

Every unit from Codex: Sons of Sanguinius within 6” of a model with a Narthecium gains the USR Feel no Pain.

Every unit with the rule Red Thirst within 6” of a model with Chosen of Sanguinius adds +1 to its initiative value on the turn it charges.

And leave the rerolls to the chaplains. Unless you plan of Red Thirst bieng much more rare, but so far everybody has it...

 

Really liking it! It has a more Blood Angel feel to it already than our current dex does to me. Oh, where is the Shroud?

[SnorriSnorrison]

Wait, so anybody within 6" of a High priest gets: 5+FNP, +1 In, AND rerolls to hit on the charge. For 80points!? Seems OP to me.

 

Well, it certainly is overpowered! However that's not what you get for the basic cost of the SHP. You get the normal Sanguinary Priest features(FnP and +1 on the charge), and re-rolls to hit on the charge. Maybe the last bit is a bit OP, but what you seem to have overlooked is that you have to buy the Grail on top of the base cost(+25 points) and that only the unit the Priest is attached to gains +1 on FnP, not everyone in 6". :)

 

All Sanguinary Priests will have the +1 initiative bit as soon as I'll get to work on them. +1 initiative on the charge is very vital for our armies to last in combat, especially in the new edition. In 5th, it was a little bit overpowered, now in 6th, our close combat abilities are much worse.

 

I know your trying to bring back the rerolls to the High priest like the oldendays, but perhaps change it to:

 

Every unit from Codex: Sons of Sanguinius within 6” of a model with a Narthecium gains the USR Feel no Pain.

Every unit with the rule Red Thirst within 6” of a model with Chosen of Sanguinius adds +1 to its initiative value on the turn it charges.

And leave the rerolls to the chaplains. Unless you plan of Red Thirst bieng much more rare, but so far everybody has it...

 

Yeah, probably the re-rolls are too much. What else could he do? Without a Grail, he's a beefed up Sanguinary Priest, so I think he needs something to justify the fact that he's a HQ choice, even without special wargear. Fearless, maybe? Too little, perhaps. Stubborn? Or something entirely new? Please, if you got any ideas, post them here. :)

 

Really liking it! It has a more Blood Angel feel to it already than our current dex does to me. Oh, where is the Shroud?

 

Thanks, that was I was aiming for. The whole Angels thing is totally left aside in our codex, only Dante, the Sanguinor(who's totally retarded fluff-wise) and the Sanguinary Guard have this theme going on, so I thought it would be great to see it as an important part of our background and lore. :)

 

The Shroud will be available for 'normal' Standard Bearers in the Honour Guard, with some unique features!

 

 

 

Do you think that these would be acceptable to print in C:SoS despite being official rules elsewhere? I know that the rules concerning reprinting GW's official material are a bit odd.

 

Well, the current codex doesn't even have the adamantine mantle, so I don't think I'm going to have any problem with that. ;) Besides, nowhere does it state what Eternal Warrior actually does!

 

 

 

I, for one, believe that the Sternguard really need to be in there. They seem an odd fit, but it's a great way to represent mechanically the fluff that the Blood Angels are, technically, a Codex Chapter.

 

Aside from that, though, I'm noticing a theme that sounds to me very much like "We should have it because C:SM has it." Are the AGLs and limitations on ammo availability so central to something that they need to be preserved?

 

To the first paragraph: Well, I'm not a fan of the unit. Sure, we are a codex chapter, but they simply don't fit to the image of our Veterans. I've even heard voices of C:SM players saying that the VV in their codex should be a BA-only unit(which they were in...happier days.) and that Sternguard are the only true PA veterans.

 

That's only opinions, of course. I'm not sure that Sternguard are needed to display our adherence to the codex, because a unit laid out for shooting things to bits without any remarkable CC abilities(besides the ones every Blood Angel has) isn't what our Chapter is renown for.

 

To the second paragraph: Wasn't the whole 'we should have it because C:SM has it' your idea? :lol: That's why we got Sternguard in the first place! So if we get some of the really unfitting units, we could also get some equipment that is fitting to a codex chapter. ;)

 

 

 

What about subdivisions within the armory - these special, one-of items are some kind of "Grand Armory" or "Upper Armory", while other weapons would be sections (Pistols, Melee, Special, Heavy, Terminator, etc.) of a "Common Armory" or "Lower Armory"? Then, rather than having things marked in the armory for who could and could not take them, the unit's entry could just say "May take any item from the Pistol of Melee sections of the Lower Armory for the appropriate points cost" or somesuch. Like the idea?

 

Liking it very much! :)

Just a random thought for dividing the armouries by names - the 'grand armoury' could be called 'Armoury of the Angelic Host' (you know, from Dante - Lord of the Angelic Host) while the others could remain the Blood Angels armoury, for lack of a better word. Could see that working.

 

However as soon as Sergeants get access to the armoury we'll have to see how far we're going to let it go - will sergeants from different squad types(tactical, assault...) be able to choose different kinds of wargear? It seems to be the trend, and in some way, I think it's quite good actually. Why would a Tactical Sergeant want to have a Thunderhammer(which needs a lot of momentum and the charge - in 'reality' ) when he could have his powerfist and a combi-weapon instead?

 

Well, might sleep that over. If you have any ideas on this, please, let me/us know!

 

 

I think that the fact that the Banner is only available when the Chapter Master is taken is perfectly appropriate; that just needs to be stated in the rules.

 

Oh, yes it will - the Chapter Master's Honour Guard will have the option of upgrading the banner bearer so that he can, in opposite to other banner bearers from 'regular' HG, actually buy the banner from the Armoury( of the Angelic Host :P ).

 

 

Thanks for the input guys! I'll be typing some stuff and update this tomorrow!

 

 

Snorri

[Erasmus of Baal]

To the first paragraph: Well, I'm not a fan of the [sternguard]. Sure, we are a codex chapter, but they simply don't fit to the image of our Veterans. I've even heard voices of C:SM players saying that the VV in their codex should be a BA-only unit(which they were in...happier days.) and that Sternguard are the only true PA veterans.

That's only opinions, of course. I'm not sure that Sternguard are needed to display our adherence to the codex, because a unit laid out for shooting things to bits without any remarkable CC abilities(besides the ones every Blood Angel has) isn't what our Chapter is renown for.

See, this is one of those points that always bothers me. Despite all the angelic/vampiric theming, all the Sanguinary [insert noun here], the Death Company and all the rest, we are still Space Marines. Yes, it's harder for us to have exceptional sharpshooters because of the Red Thirst, and even our Veterans are no Crimson Fists, but the BOLTER is still the core of what we are, the holy instrument of the Emperor's wrath upon the Xeno, the Mutant, and the Heretic. Even if there are only twenty true Sternguard throughout the Blood Angels and all their Successor Chapters, it would be wrong to exclude these noble men who honor the Boltgun more strongly than anyone else in the Chapter from any Blood Angels Codex. Removing Sternguard is comparable to removing Tactical Squads or Devastator Squads - true, not our pinnacle, but still a key part of the Blood Angels as a whole.

Speaking of Tacticals, can I get the option to give them jump packs? Marines with jump packs and boltguns is one of my favorite things to use no matter how useless they may actually be.

To the second paragraph: Wasn't the whole 'we should have it because C:SM has it' your idea? That's why we got Sternguard in the first place! So if we get some of the really unfitting units, we could also get some equipment that is fitting to a codex chapter.

I think you're misunderstanding me. By saying that we need to feel like a Codex Chapter with extras, I'm not claiming that we need to even approach actually being C:SM with extras. Changing a few items of wargear doesn't usually affect the way an army "feels" to the player, especially when we don't have Relic Blades anyways.

Just a random thought for dividing the armouries by names - the 'grand armoury' could be called 'Armoury of the Angelic Host' (you know, from Dante - Lord of the Angelic Host) while the others could remain the Blood Angels armoury, for lack of a better word. Could see that working.

However as soon as Sergeants get access to the armoury we'll have to see how far we're going to let it go - will sergeants from different squad types(tactical, assault...) be able to choose different kinds of wargear? It seems to be the trend, and in some way, I think it's quite good actually. Why would a Tactical Sergeant want to have a Thunderhammer(which needs a lot of momentum and the charge - in 'reality' ) when he could have his powerfist and a combi-weapon instead?

That's the thing. He doesn't have to have access to the WHOLE Armory, just the pistol and melee sections. If there's no reason for him to take an upgrade (such as the Thunder Hammer), then he just won't take it.

[Sokhar]

My initial contribution to this thread will be to simply toss out a rule idea I had earlier today. Could fit on Sanguinary Guard, as a way to really push them as a great unit, or could be something like a replacement for Dante's Tactical Precision, and he bestows the ability on his unit. Anyway....

 

"Death From Above"--Hammer of Wrath attacks made by this unit can benefit from any piece of wargear carried by the individual models.

 

Tell me that wouldn't be fun as hell. ;)

[Erasmus of Baal]

"Death From Above"--Hammer of Wrath attacks made by this unit can benefit from any piece of wargear carried by the individual models.

Yeah, that would be fun, but it gets problematic FAST. Just put anything AP2 on it and suddenly we make the Gray Knights look like buffoons who don't know how to wield a sword. Now, we could make some more use-able variant on your idea, just some buff to Hammer of Wrath, but Snorri's "Sons of Sanguinius" rule is already buffing Hammer of Wrath by making sure that we get it all the time. It can be done, it just makes our modifier-heavy army even more difficult to balance. It's certainly an option worth looking at.

[fivepointedstar]

What about for the Sanguinary High Priest he has a Rosarius-like devise, and once per battle he could elect one model that would automatically lose their ( i.e a instant death attack) last saving throw to take the 4+ invulnerable save instead. Since apothecaries are all about saving marines in any form.

[Sokhar]

Just put anything AP2 on it and suddenly we make the Gray Knights look like buffoons

 

That was certainly the idea. Wasn't an army-wide suggestion, but more for just either a special character or unit type. When I first typed the post I almost included the clause "weapon that does not have the Unwieldy rule," but I didn't like that that would still bone Dante. Appropriately costed on a particular unit, I don't think its any more egregious than the Dark Angels' fistful of debuff powers they just got, amongst other odd goodies.

[SnorriSnorrison]

Hey guys, I'm back! Just a short update and a good overhaul of the home-grown codex. I thought with the rumors of the new SM codex it would be a nice idea to resurrect this thread. If there's some interest in this left, I'd like to work with you guys on the rules development for the 6th edition C:BA. :)

Anyway, have fun reading!



Snorri

[Chado23]

I really like what you try to do. I would like to highlight some parts I think they would be different. Sometime might have been already mantion , but I will read the post of the other guys later:

Sons of Sanguinius sounds too strong.  Maybe you could pick the reroll in the assualt or hammer of wrath. And seems it it would make more sense in Elite Jump infantry or in Vanguards and DC.

Feel No Pain at 4+ sounds unrealistic to me.

Banner: Two Victory points sound way too much. It could be : Blood angels gain Favourite Enemy against the unit that kill the banner man.

Captain , with so many extra rules ( and the possibility to take red thirst rules) that our captain could might be more expensive.
The artificial armor sounds bit cheap. Maybe costing 20 and having the possibility to take jump pack.
Or it could be more expensive with jump pack and making Sang Guard  troops.

Termies for troops for blood angels sounds too much. Dark Angels would lose much love.  Vanguard or Sang Guard sound more right.

 

 Priest costing only 75 and having the Liturgies of Blood (even only the reroll) low. I could be wrong and I would love to have it in my army. I would never leave home without one ( I most times don't but now I wouldn't like, ever).

Please, keep reading the Sons of Sanguinius Codex!  I love to see someone working that hard to create something for the chapter I love the most.  The Primarch will be proud of you Battle Brother.