Lepaca Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 Soooo to get right to it: Do troops from allies that aren't Battle Brothers but rather Allies of Convenience score? The point was raised recently by a friend of mine. He argues that they do not because the allies are "treated as enemy units[...]". However I'd argue that they do because: 1) The Battle Brothers entry does not mention that they are scoring. 2) The AoC entry does not mention that they do not score. 3) The Desperate Allies entry mentions that they "are treated exactly like AoCs" with the exception that they are non-scoring and non-denying. What do you think? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/269558-question-about-allies-of-convenience/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
*Furyou Miko Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 Troops entries are scoring unless otherwise specified. Desperate Allies specifies that they are not Scoring. Therefore, Allies of Convenience Troops are scoring. However, you may have to admit to yourself that your allied detachment won if it's a key objective (EG: Eldar allies holding an objective for Marines... the Eldar probably won that one) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/269558-question-about-allies-of-convenience/#findComment-3282829 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkGuard Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 What do you think? I think that this should be in Official Rules, moving there now. Otherwise, I agree with Furyou Miko, they score. Unlike Desperate Allies, nowhere does it say they do not score, therefore they score, subject to the usual conditions. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/269558-question-about-allies-of-convenience/#findComment-3283095 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacinda Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 He argues that they do not because the allies are "treated as enemy units[...]". Ask him to show you where being an enemy means they are not scoring. Because if my enemy's troops are not scoring; that's fantastic! An army's scoring units are normally "all the units that come from the troops selection of the Force Organization chart." It goes on to list exceptions; being an enemy is not among those exceptions. We can go step by step with the permissions if it will help. Page 123 says ALL troops are scoring. No mention of being friendly as a requirement. This is a global toggle. ALL troops are now scoring. Page 123 then makes exclusions for those troop units which are embarked, are vehicles, have Swarm special rule or are falling back. No mention of being an enemy. Only those units which are covered in the specific exceptions are no longer scoring. Pages 128 129 go on to counter some of those exception for those specific missions. However there is still no mention of friendly or non-friendly in the specific rules so we stick to the general rule: ALL troops are scoring. Page 117 has a mention of allies becoming non-scoring. This is in the specific case of Desperate Allies. Allies of Convenience does not fit this exclusion so again, we go back to using the general rule. As long as there are no specific cases which say otherwise, the general rule says Allies of Convenience from the troops FOC are scoring. If you want to point out where the book clarifies that that Desperate Allies is indeed different from Allies of Convenience, just point him to the bolded line and the line just after that where is says "Furthermore, if your primary detachment is in a desperate alliance ..." It clearly states that this is addition to Allies of Convenience. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/269558-question-about-allies-of-convenience/#findComment-3283200 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lepaca Posted January 15, 2013 Author Share Posted January 15, 2013 He argues that they do not because the allies are "treated as enemy units[...]". Ask him to show you where being an enemy means they are not scoring. Because if my enemy's troops are not scoring; that's fantastic! An army's scoring units are normally "all the units that come from the troops selection of the Force Organization chart." It goes on to list exceptions; being an enemy is not among those exceptions. We can go step by step with the permissions if it will help. Page 123 says ALL troops are scoring. No mention of being friendly as a requirement. This is a global toggle. ALL troops are now scoring. Page 123 then makes exclusions for those troop units which are embarked, are vehicles, have Swarm special rule or are falling back. No mention of being an enemy. Only those units which are covered in the specific exceptions are no longer scoring. Pages 128 129 go on to counter some of those exception for those specific missions. However there is still no mention of friendly or non-friendly in the specific rules so we stick to the general rule: ALL troops are scoring. Page 117 has a mention of allies becoming non-scoring. This is in the specific case of Desperate Allies. Allies of Convenience does not fit this exclusion so again, we go back to using the general rule. As long as there are no specific cases which say otherwise, the general rule says Allies of Convenience from the troops FOC are scoring. If you want to point out where the book clarifies that that Desperate Allies is indeed different from Allies of Convenience, just point him to the bolded line and the line just after that where is says "Furthermore, if your primary detachment is in a desperate alliance ..." It clearly states that this is addition to Allies of Convenience. Thanks! I'm sure having the page numbers will come in very handy! Also sorry for posting this in the wrong sub-forum. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/269558-question-about-allies-of-convenience/#findComment-3284210 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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