antacidbrn Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 I know many people are hating the Nephilim, but my honest opinion is that the Land Speeder Vengeance is the least useful unit in the codex. Can anyone enlighten me as to why I would spend 140 pts on a glass hammer? As soon as this appears on the table, any smart opponent will target it immediately because of the really nice Plasma Storm Battery. I just feel like this is way to easy to kill and that this is too many points to spend on a decoy. I will never be able to make my points back. Am I missing something? **Because this is a heavy support entry, I cannot even use it in games of Kill Team, this would have been fun to run with Scout Squad there** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion El Jason Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 Heh, I just made this post on another forum. I can't see much of a use for it, especially as it can kill itself quickly with its main gun. The Large Blast is obviously a good weapon but its getting 1 shot at best I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger9gamer Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 why should I have 3 plasma cannons at 180pts when can have 4 on Devs for 115pts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*Furyou Miko Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 Mobility? Deep Striking? Oh, wait. Cannons. Range 36". When's THAT not going to reach? lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FarFromSam Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 How much is a vindicator in the book? :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Upstartes Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 I can envision an alpha-strike list with first-turn DW assault and a drop-pod with locator beacon. Then later the vengeance deep strikes in and lays some huge hurt on the enemy backfield, while the enemy has plenty of other targets in their kool-aid to worry about. Deep striking is definitely something that a vindicator can't do. Also, a vengeance and darkshroud combo gives the vengeance a decent jink save which a vindicator can't do -- if those two speeders zip flat out across the board together, they can potentially cause a good deal of disruption, I would think. I don't know that either of these capabilities make the vengeance worth its points in comparison to the cheaper heavy support options or not. Like other things, some games with proxy models might be in order to see if the unit has some hidden usefulness that doesn't jump out at you from the codex page. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antacidbrn Posted January 14, 2013 Author Share Posted January 14, 2013 So you mean the Vengeance can also kill itself with the main gun getting hot? I thought I read somewhere that this was not possible on vehicles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger9gamer Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 it can glance itself to death. pretty glaring design flaw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spu00sed Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 why should I have 3 plasma cannons at 180pts when can have 4 on Devs for 115pts? My digital copy has the plasma storm as heavy 3, not heavy 3 blast, so will hit less models than 4 plasma cannons Even the large blast from charged setting can hit fewer models in small units, than the four plasma cannons. The only use I see for the vengeance is to take out large (legion) squads of marines or terminators. Or to tackle MC or medium vehicles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antacidbrn Posted January 14, 2013 Author Share Posted January 14, 2013 @Tiger9gamer, that is quite the glaring design flaw! It seems pretty easy to glance to death and especially being such a lightly armed unit with 2 HP. Yuck, I think I'll buy something else instead for the money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puck Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 its too bad the model was really growing on me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Upstartes Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 Well, a lot of the model's features are shared with the Darkshroud, and the Darkshroud seems much more fieldable than the Vengeance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger9gamer Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 at least the darkshroud can help out units survive better. Shrouding can help vehicles move up, cover some deepstriking terminators, ect. all for 80pts! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kastor Krieg Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 Mobility? Deep Striking? Oh, wait. Cannons. Range 36". When's THAT not going to reach? lol. How about 24"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mactire Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 Not to offend anyone but i think both the shroud and vengance are your version of our thunderwolf cavalry and canis wolfborn. They look terrible and while they probably are all useful in games and have a role to play i think they actually take from the overall look of an army. Sometimes GW gets things sot on but sometimes oh boy!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arioch Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 Deepstrike it and nuke costly enemy squads- like as heck full squad of greyhunters or a unit of chaos terminators- use the large blast on the spacewols, 3 blast if the terminators only number 5. Point efficient? Maybe, maybe not, but I dont think its completly useless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gumo9 Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 Can I just check, does the paper codex state "heavy 3, blast" for burst mode? As mentioned above, in the digital codex, blast is not stated for burst mode, just "heavy 3, gets hot" G Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aradiel Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 codex says heavy 3, makes no mention of blast Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tamwulf Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 Can I just check, does the paper codex state "heavy 3, blast" for burst mode? As mentioned above, in the digital codex, blast is not stated for burst mode, just "heavy 3, gets hot" G Paper codex on Pg. 60 and on the fold out reference sheet both state "Heavy 3, Gets Hot" for burst mode. Ya know, the Land Speeder Vengeance is almost a suicide vehicle. AV 10, 2 HP makes it absurdly vulnerable to just about anything on the table. It's the closest thing your opponent will ever get to a free First Blood point if you don't deepstrike it. Remember that when a vehicle rolls a 1 for Get's Hot!, you roll another d6- on a 1-3, you take a glancing hit. 4-6, nothing happens. Fielding a Darkshroud with it just means you increased it's point cost to well over 200 points. The best role I can think for it is as Upstartes suggested- deepstrike it behind a unit of Deathwing that is standing right in front of your opponent. Throw as much firepower as you can at him to break whatever costly unit you deem needs destroyed. Be prepared though- 24" is the range of just about every S4 infantry weapon in the game, and this thing will be glanced to death. Sure, you can jink all you want- but that just decreases its usefulness later in the game. You're gonna get one, maybe two turns of shooting out of this thing before your opponent sneezes at it and wrecks it. Of course, you could go all out and take three of them... wouldn't that be interesting to see on the table? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FarFromSam Posted January 30, 2013 Share Posted January 30, 2013 I was watching this thread to see if a use for the poor thing would turn up. Has any one found its' niche? The thing I figured it might be able to pull off is sticking to a flank and hiding behind terrain? has anyone had any luck deep striking the DJ booth? Basically, can it out perform the cheaper, more heavily armed, more powerful vindicator? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Immolator Posted January 30, 2013 Share Posted January 30, 2013 Librarian with the inv generator + Prescience + RWKs with rad launchers. Enjoy instagibbing MEQ across the board with the derp speeder. On each own its useless, with shenanigans like the above (as example) can be lethal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronin_eX Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 Yeah, at first I was pretty harsh on the LSV, but I think I'm starting to see some merit in it. First things first, the Heavy 3 firing mode is a trap, ignore it unless you are down to 1HP, about to die and there is an enemy light vehicle nearby. The whole purpose of the low-power mode is to give it a one-shot ability to pop light vehicles (or heavier vehicles from behind). In almost every case you will do more damage with the large blast. Now its easiest comparison is the Vindicator. It is more expensive, but faster (better threat radius on its big shot) and has a few deployment options that the Vindi doesn't. For once this seems to be a Land Speeder variant that wants to deep strike. You don't want it out on turn one, because it will die. But on turn to, the enemy may be engaged already and it has a better chance of survival as well as getting a good choice of deployment areas. Obviously its blast is weaker than the Vindicator, but it can likely deploy it further up field than the Vindicator can. And being S7, it has synergy with Rad grenades that make it IK vs. T4 infantry. I will have to test it out, but using it as a deep striking pie-plate attack seems to be a great idea. I still wish it had something more like 3HP or maybe AV11, but the 140 price point isn't seeming quite as crazy as it did when I first had a look at it. But I think the main problem I had with it was that I kept on forgetting that it could DS. This means its initial threat zone is the whole table and it would work really well alongside other Turn 2 deep strike options. Vindicators are tougher, a bit cheaper and have a more devastating attack, but their threat radius is much smaller if they want to fire the main gun. I'm still not sold on the LSV at its current price point, but I think it at least deserves some testing before being relegated to the Do Not Use pile. At the very least it has some interesting uses as a Deep Striker and interacts well with Rad Grenade. That may end up being worth something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffJedi Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 It seems like it is the Deepstrike Response Unit. When an enemy Terminator squad Deep Strikes next turn you DS in and fry them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Sheol Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 Does anybody think that at 140pts per model and looking to the model itself that the plasma battery should be TL? I still thunk that LSV main weapon was TL in the GD first intention and then they discarded TL leaving us a overcosted glass hammer. M2c Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yancke Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 Why would i take this if i have 5 model Speeder squads available? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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