Master Sheol Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 LSV are a HS choice... You can have 3 of them and still able to have 3 squadrons of LS, BK, flyers, DS... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/269579-serious-thoughts-about-the-land-speeder-vengeance/page/2/#findComment-3295244 Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlauG Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 I think its main flaw is sharing an expensive kit with the more immediately useful Darkshroud. It's okay but on balance I will take the DS most games. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/269579-serious-thoughts-about-the-land-speeder-vengeance/page/2/#findComment-3295314 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Sheol Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 I am fielding DS only even a full RW army... I dont think that LSV is worth its points... I could consider it only of the plasma battery was TL... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/269579-serious-thoughts-about-the-land-speeder-vengeance/page/2/#findComment-3295400 Share on other sites More sharing options...
FerociousBeast Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 If you look at the Vengeance in isolation, it's easy to think that it won't survive a single turn since it's so fragile. But think about it in the context of a 1500-2000 point army with Deathwing Knights, Land Raiders, banners, and Ravenwing Knights. The Vengeance isn't the only threat the enemy's going to be worried about. If they focus fire on the Vengeance and kill it, your Land Raiders filled with Knights are that much closer to dropping a load of destruction in the enemy's lines. If they focus fire on the Land Raider, your Vengeance gets to drop another pie plate of plasma. In this game, survivability is never just a function of Toughness, Armor, and/or Hull Points. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/269579-serious-thoughts-about-the-land-speeder-vengeance/page/2/#findComment-3295433 Share on other sites More sharing options...
elphilo Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 I'm still not sold on the LSV at its current price point, but I think it at least deserves some testing before being relegated to the Do Not Use pile. At the very least it has some interesting uses as a Deep Striker and interacts well with Rad Grenade. That may end up being worth something.I think the price and its AV regulates it into the "Do Not Use" pile. A single Marine can take it down. Now the stars would have to align for it to happen, but crazier stuff does happen in this game all the time. I've always hated Land Speeders for this fact alone. Though I agree with you, if they had made it AV11 it would of been a "Let me think about this" option. But how Gets Hot works and the price of the vehicle, it is a really bad choice IMO. I would rather take that 140 points and get 3 more Ravenwing Black Knights. I can see the potential with the Rad grenade, but I just don't think it's worth the points in the long run. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/269579-serious-thoughts-about-the-land-speeder-vengeance/page/2/#findComment-3295435 Share on other sites More sharing options...
facmanpob Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 I think the main problem is the range of the primary weapon........24" puts it in range of most weapons, and AV10 means it'll get taken down easily. This is one of the reasons I usually run my normal speeders as Typhoons. For roughly the same price as a single LSV I can get 2 Typhoons pumping out 4 missiles 48" and 6 HB shots 36". Much better I think! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/269579-serious-thoughts-about-the-land-speeder-vengeance/page/2/#findComment-3295465 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger9gamer Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 agreed! If i want a 24" pieplate, i would take a vindicator for 125pts! more mech saturation, and goes great with a land raider for an armor list! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/269579-serious-thoughts-about-the-land-speeder-vengeance/page/2/#findComment-3296083 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Sheol Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 The LSV goes well of you deepsrike it near a DS or near a tech on bile with field generator... It's main problema are: AV10 being the RW eqivalent of a tank it should have AV11 to be immune to small weapons. Plasma battery. This weapon should be twin linked and have at least 36" cause it's visually a big twin linked plasma cannon. At 140 pts with AV11-11-10/11 36" TL plasma weapon it would be perfect. Now it's too expensive for what you get and i will stay with my single DS even in my RW only army. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/269579-serious-thoughts-about-the-land-speeder-vengeance/page/2/#findComment-3296090 Share on other sites More sharing options...
CovertToaster Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 I've always thought, with the way the plasma gun is pointed, that it should be a 140 pt, fast, whirlwind. The main gun would be a little less of a liability if they had listed it as barrage and it was dropping 3 small blasts on a tac squad! Then you take a risk that you might kill yourself or you could take out a 170 pt plus unit and not have to draw LOS to it. The way it is it's the last option to follow darkshrouds and you could easily make up an excuse to field something else. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/269579-serious-thoughts-about-the-land-speeder-vengeance/page/2/#findComment-3296116 Share on other sites More sharing options...
facmanpob Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 The LSV goes well of you deepsrike it near a DS or near a tech on bile with field generator... It's main problema are: AV10 being the RW eqivalent of a tank it should have AV11 to be immune to small weapons. Plasma battery. This weapon should be twin linked and have at least 36" cause it's visually a big twin linked plasma cannon. At 140 pts with AV11-11-10/11 36" TL plasma weapon it would be perfect. Now it's too expensive for what you get and i will stay with my single DS even in my RW only army. Couldn't agree more ..... that seems like a much more reasonable statline for the points cost. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/269579-serious-thoughts-about-the-land-speeder-vengeance/page/2/#findComment-3296166 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azrael Turnbull Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 I will take a Vindicator/Devastators every time over the Vengeance. The Vengeance isn't useless, but is made redundant by the form mentioned counterparts. I will, however, take a Vengeance or two with my Ravenwing army. Everything's made of glass in that list, anyway. Besides, the Dark Shroud will improve it's survivability as long as it keeps moving. It will compliment the rest of the force, as the enemy will always have a choice or half of your Ravenwing army to kill and the other half to be wiped out by. I think that vehicles blowing themselves up with 'Gets Hot' weapons is silly! Why is there just as much chance of a Guardsmen in Carapace Armour killing himself with a Plasma Weapon as there is a Leman Russ glancing itself? No consistency. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/269579-serious-thoughts-about-the-land-speeder-vengeance/page/2/#findComment-3296270 Share on other sites More sharing options...
FarFromSam Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 I have read a lot of "Deep Strike with rad gernades and cover from the dark shroud and it will insta kill t4, and it will survive longer" Well, it will at least get to fire on deep strike, make it to turn 2, and it have its choice of where to come in. But i still can't justify taking it over the vindi since your opponent can score first blood from the dark shroud just as easily. Adding in a Dark Shroud and BK with rad gernades gets expensive and you need every point you can get in a RW army. Plus you can do the same trick with a vindicator but in addition to insta killing t4 after rad gernades you insta kill t6 monstrous creatures. With a vindi on the board during deployment you can manipulate where your opponent deploys. Thanks to 6th's 25% for cover rule the vindi can now find cover simply by having a bike in front of it. And it won't kill itself... and is mostly immune to bolter fire... and has an extra HP... The only reason to take the LSV vs the vindi is for fluff. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/269579-serious-thoughts-about-the-land-speeder-vengeance/page/2/#findComment-3296330 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Immolator Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 I have read a lot of "Deep Strike with rad gernades and cover from the dark shroud and it will insta kill t4, and it will survive longer" Well, it will at least get to fire on deep strike, make it to turn 2, and it have its choice of where to come in. But i still can't justify taking it over the vindi since your opponent can score first blood from the dark shroud just as easily. Adding in a Dark Shroud and BK with rad gernades gets expensive and you need every point you can get in a RW army. Plus you can do the same trick with a vindicator but in addition to insta killing t4 after rad gernades you insta kill t6 monstrous creatures. With a vindi on the board during deployment you can manipulate where your opponent deploys. Thanks to 6th's 25% for cover rule the vindi can now find cover simply by having a bike in front of it. And it won't kill itself... and is mostly immune to bolter fire... and has an extra HP... The only reason to take the LSV vs the vindi is for fluff. Don't agree: You see ravenwing knights with rad launchers are pretty much an integral part of the ravenwing IMHO they are force multipliers by virtue of that rad launcher which is useful on every weapon in the army. So one will most likely include a detachment. Nothing to say ofc that are mobile plasma guns. Also the power of the derp speeder is in its ability to produce three seperate pie plates in one package. It is far more easier to find cover and far more easier to manouver and find targets due to it been a hoover vehicle. Plus that assault cannon is not there for just good looks, it adds firepower on its own. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/269579-serious-thoughts-about-the-land-speeder-vengeance/page/2/#findComment-3296346 Share on other sites More sharing options...
elphilo Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 I have read a lot of "Deep Strike with rad gernades and cover from the dark shroud and it will insta kill t4, and it will survive longer" Well, it will at least get to fire on deep strike, make it to turn 2, and it have its choice of where to come in. But i still can't justify taking it over the vindi since your opponent can score first blood from the dark shroud just as easily. Adding in a Dark Shroud and BK with rad gernades gets expensive and you need every point you can get in a RW army. Plus you can do the same trick with a vindicator but in addition to insta killing t4 after rad gernades you insta kill t6 monstrous creatures. With a vindi on the board during deployment you can manipulate where your opponent deploys. Thanks to 6th's 25% for cover rule the vindi can now find cover simply by having a bike in front of it. And it won't kill itself... and is mostly immune to bolter fire... and has an extra HP... The only reason to take the LSV vs the vindi is for fluff. Don't agree: You see ravenwing knights with rad launchers are pretty much an integral part of the ravenwing IMHO they are force multipliers by virtue of that rad launcher which is useful on every weapon in the army. So one will most likely include a detachment. Nothing to say ofc that are mobile plasma guns. Also the power of the derp speeder is in its ability to produce three seperate pie plates in one package. It is far more easier to find cover and far more easier to manouver and find targets due to it been a hoover vehicle. Plus that assault cannon is not there for just good looks, it adds firepower on its own. The derp speeder only gets 1 pie plate. It's either 1 Large Blast or Heavy 3. If it were Heavy 3 blast, then I would consider taking it at its point cost. The AV10 still wouldn't sit with me well, but you take the good with that bad. As it stands now, IMO, it is a bad choice. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/269579-serious-thoughts-about-the-land-speeder-vengeance/page/2/#findComment-3296375 Share on other sites More sharing options...
facmanpob Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Downloads/Product/PDF/p/Predator_Executioner.pdf Assuming FW products are on the table.....Compare the 140 point LSV with 150 points worth of Predator Executioner......AV13 front, 36" Heavy 3 Blast plasma (with no Gets Hot!?!), Heavy bolter sponsons. Hmmmm, I know which one I'd take! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/269579-serious-thoughts-about-the-land-speeder-vengeance/page/2/#findComment-3296413 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Immolator Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 EDIT: Supposedly I posted but nothing. Well here we go again: Yes you are right I got elphilo, I got carried away. Yet it is still viable. It is more mobile than a vindicator, can be hidden into safety far more easy, the choice on fire mode if anything is flexible, has better range and in conjunction with RWKs it can instadeath many models. Its AV in RW lists should not prove to be a problem for three reasons: First of all we can add a ton of wargear for inv saves to our vehicles, we can take a darkshroud or we can simply screen them as we would have done so anyways with the vindicator. Anyway I dont advocate its a supper vehicle just a better compliment to a RW list. It has better mobility than a vindicator, something that I always felt it lacked for a rw list. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/269579-serious-thoughts-about-the-land-speeder-vengeance/page/2/#findComment-3296496 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azrael Turnbull Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 I think I'm part of the 'it should cost less' part of this group, or it should have armour 11 or something. I'm going to take it on the grounds that I want to field pure Ravenwing; therefore, no Vindicator's allowed. Besides, being fluffy is more fun for you and your opponent. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/269579-serious-thoughts-about-the-land-speeder-vengeance/page/2/#findComment-3296516 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Immolator Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 Supposedly I edited the previous post too...what is going on today? Anyway: facmnpob : If we are talking about FW units then we can set the codex asside and use legion lists. Spam 30 or so autocannons and a fellblade to boot :D No need for vindicators or Plasmastorm deprspeeders :D ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/269579-serious-thoughts-about-the-land-speeder-vengeance/page/2/#findComment-3296543 Share on other sites More sharing options...
facmanpob Posted February 2, 2013 Share Posted February 2, 2013 Supposedly I edited the previous post too...what is going on today? Anyway: facmnpob : If we are talking about FW units then we can set the codex asside and use legion lists. Spam 30 or so autocannons and a fellblade to boot :D No need for vindicators or Plasmastorm deprspeeders :D ;) I'll take the Lion and auto-win ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/269579-serious-thoughts-about-the-land-speeder-vengeance/page/2/#findComment-3296832 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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