Azrael Turnbull Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 I apologise if this has already been discussed, but there are too many new topics to keep up with. So, the Dark Angels special blades. As far as I'm aware, there are three: The Sword of Secrets The Sword of Silence The Raven Sword I haven't finished reading the whole codex so if there are more, please point them out. I know Ezekiel's sword used to count as a Heavenfall blade, but I couldn't see anything in the sword's description that says it still applies. I smell retcon. Anyway, to the point... The Raven Sword is AP2. I think that's a fair upgrade, makes it look sharper than other power swords. This is accurate, due to the survivability of the blades themselves. The Sword of Secrets is the second blade I checked the rules out for. Str 6 still, this is to be expected as (unless retcon'd without me knowing), it's the only Heavenfall blade made purely from the special material. In the new codex, it is still described as the greatest of the Heavenfall Blades. However, it is AP3. I've tried to overlook that, but it's difficult. Less AP than the Raven Sword? Equal AP but lower strength to other Dark Angels artifacts that I proceeded to look up? It doesn't seem the best in comparison. And then, the game changer... The Sword of Silence. Despite the fluff saying that the Sword of Secrets if the mightiest, the Sword of Silence is simply mightier. Always wounds on 2+? Who needs Strength 6 compared to that? Yes, the Sword of Secrets is better at chopping up tanks, but who cares about that? I do not use 215 point characters to take out tanks! Against any other unit (except T3 multi wound characters) the Sword of Silence is preferable. In addition to the consideration of Belial's Sword being greater than Azrael's, it also brings me back to the Raven Sword. It is now redundant! Who would want an additional AP when you could have Fleshbane or Str 6? Why is it so weak in comparison to it's brothers? Who would want to give 'Eternal Warrior' to a character that can barely scratch a Carnifex? I'd much sooner give 'Eterenal Warrior' to Azrael or Belial whom it could actually be useful for! Sammael already has T5, so unless he catches a Demolisher Shell with his teeth... Anyway, these are my only complaints about the codex other than the many typing errors (and there are many!). Does anyone oppose to the above? I would like to hear it if you do. Please set my mind at rest about the power fluctuation of the Dark Angels Special Characters weapons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlauG Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 In the case of Sammael, he's now got backup who ride around shooting Toughness debuffs at people... Shoot at the unit of enemy MEQ characters with Rad grenades, laugh as Sammy's Plasma Cannon instant kills them, and if it doesn't, swing in with an AP2 sword which is now wounding on 3+ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harleqvin Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 I understand what you are saying. I think Azrael's sword should have at least had ap 2 in addition, if not also Fleshbane. I think the reason they didn't was to keep the cost down but to still give him something nice on the sword. i mean he does make RWAS and DW Troop choices now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rizara Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 at least this time around, they made all 3 swords actually 3 different swords. last time, two of the swords were essentially the same, master crafted power weapons only, with a fancy name while the sword of secrets has always been str 6. They didn't change that, they just gave each of the other swords a different trait is all. While I agree, ap2 is somethign to fear in combat, sam does have other things going for him, like mobility, the plasma cannon, or the fact that he can ride a land speeder that is armor 14 in the front and side, and still use his sword, so its a landraider type speeder that can attack you in close combat. Belial's sword got an improvement too, his was a nice touch, as their isn't much you can add to a termie. he does have some drawbacks, as he can't pursue a unit that he doesn't wipe out because of the terminator armor. Just be thankful they improved the swords this time, and made all three feel unique. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlauG Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 While I agree, ap2 is somethign to fear in combat, sam does have other things going for him, like mobility, the plasma cannon, or the fact that he can ride a land speeder that is armor 14 in the front and side, and still use his sword, so its a landraider type speeder that can attack you in close combat. Emphasis mine... Where does it say that, exactly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azrael Turnbull Posted January 15, 2013 Author Share Posted January 15, 2013 My main issue here is not the playability of the characters, but the inconsistency. Why is Azrael's sword not the greatest of the three like the fluff says that it is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rizara Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 I don't have the dex handy, but doesn't it say that the land speeder only replaces his bike, so he pretty much still has all his other wargear options. I just assumed since he still has his sword, that he would still get to use it, especially since most people usually model him with the sword in hand on the back of the speeder. If he can't use it, thats fine, but it would be nice to know where it says he can't use it. I do agree, the lion sword should have at least had ap2, especially with it already being str 6, that much extra str should make it go thru armor even easier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlauG Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 The army list entry gives an entirely new profile, with new Wargear and Relics; it only lists the weapons on the Speeder, and the "Night Halo". If it was replacing only the bike, and not the weapons, this would mean he now had two Night Halos, which seems unlikely... Also, "Sableclaw", the Land Speeder, has no WS or other melee stats listed, which means it can't make melee attacks (Walkers have WS, S, I, A listed). I do think Azrael's sword should have been AP2, though. That's almost as annoying as the I6 or 7 Commander Dante having a Power Axe... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rizara Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 cool, thanks for clarifing it, I am just recalling from memory from the one glance thru, my dex is still in route =( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isiah Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 In that respect Sammy hasn't changed from the old codex. He's either a character or a vehicle <_<. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onisuzume Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 While I agree, ap2 is somethign to fear in combat, sam does have other things going for him, like mobility, the plasma cannon, or the fact that he can ride a land speeder that is armor 14 in the front and side, and still use his sword, so its a landraider type speeder that can attack you in close combat. Emphasis mine... Where does it say that, exactly? 3rd Edition Codex: Dark Angels. :P Although iirc, it was just a single attack when he flew over an enemy unit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlauG Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 3rd Edition Codex: Dark Angels. Although iirc, it was just a single attack when he flew over an enemy unit. Typical, I went straight from 2E to 5E so skipped it :P I was originally hoping if he'd gain a Vector Strike similar to the Helldrake, or something like the Dark Eldar blades for their skimmers, before the 'dex was released, actually... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion El Jason Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 He should have been a chariot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Immolator Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 Want a fluffy explanation? They were made by the same material but by a different artisan. That can explain a few things :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azoriel Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 Just be thankful they improved the swords this time, and made all three feel unique. +1 According to the fluff, the Sword of Silence goes to the best fighter in the chapter - thus the fleshbane part might not be a property of the sword itself but rather a reflection of the wielder's horrifying skill with the blade. This would indicate that Belial is a better swordfighter than Azrael... But perhaps Azrael is too busy leading the chapter/legion to get in as much sword practice. Not really sure how to justify the Raven Sword getting AP2 (it hits harder because he swoops in on a jetbike?). I won't complain about it, though; as it stands, getting the AP2 just means Sammael's power sword works the same as it did under the previous codex. It would've certainly been nice to see the heavenfall blades get some special unifying special rule, like AP 2 to exemplify the extreme sharpness of Calibanite obsidian, or something along those lines. However, I'd rather not look this gift horse in the mouth. (On another note, Ezekial's weapon has never been a heavenfall blade - up until 4th edition, it was just a plain old force sword, much like any other. Since 3rd Edition, tradition has it that heavenfall blades only get used by captains of grand master status - giving one to a librarian, even the chief librarian, would have been a much bigger retcon!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WatchCaptainAzrael Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 The Sword of Secrets can instantly kill a wounded model with 3T. The Sword of Silence can't. The former can also unlock Luther's cell, which ramps up its fluff value. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rizara Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 Well Azrael is busy leading the chapter, and also issuing last rites to the commanders of the fallen, since in the previous edition, their is a pic of him preparing to issue last right, with a librarian and another company master issuing the last rites with him, while 4 death wing terminators in hoods stand guard. He doesn't get to lead the hunt like sammael and belial does, and Belial has to be the best fighter in the chapter, even more so than the chapter champion, he does lead the deathwing afterall, just sucks his model doesn't reflect how amazing his martial skills are lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arioch Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 Quite a shame with Azraels sword. Its one of the little things that annoy me in an otherwise awsome codex. Well, our Supreme Grandmaster should avoid enemy terminators then, or they will give him a hard time. What further annoys me is the fact that the sword of secrets have always been THE sword, the greatest weapon of the Unforgiven. Now we got a halberd an a mace that are much more awsome. I will of course not complain about these exellent new options and the game has to be balanced an all but... surely an ap of 2 or "bane of the traitor" wasnt enough to make Azrael op? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rizara Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 these new relics are probably recapture relics that fallen may have carried and were cleansed properly before being handed back over to the chapter masters to use. it would explain why they are much more awesome, as they are preheresy relics, while the sword of secrets was forged after the fall and destruction of caliban. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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