Dark_Master Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 As title What do you think would be the best loadout for the command squad? My ideas (More fluffy) Belial - S/B and SoS Libby - Combi Plasma and Force Sword (maybe power field) Sgt - S/B and Power Sword Champion - Halbard of Caliban Std bearer - S/B and Chainfist ( DW std) Apoth - S/B Termi - L/C's and Cyclone Thoughts? DM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isiah Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 Interesting. How much does that lost cost as points are an important factor here when considering CS loadout as you are investing heavily in a non-scoring unit. I presume they deep strike? If so I think I might be tempted to swap the cyclone for an assault cannon (or even a heavy flamer if you land close enough?) myself as range isn't an issue, but rate of fire is to take better advantage of Vengeful Strike [just thinking aloud]. But that depends what you face them up against. Otherwise great . Cheers I Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gratan Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 The DW Command Squad does not have a Sergeant. It is just 5 DW Terminators One can be given a Banner One can be Upgraded to a Champion One can be Upgraded to an Apothecary Both the Champion and the Apothecary become characters. In essence the Champion becomes the Sergeant of the unit. There is no option for a guy with SB and Power Sword. I plan on fielding mine thusly Chamion w/ Halberd Standard Bearer w/ TH/SS (for extra survivability), Banner of Fortitude Terminator w/ Chainfist and Heavy Weapon (Ass Cannon or Heavy Flamer) x2 Terminators w/ SB and PF (or PLCs for more Melee) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avon Rekaes Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 My current load-out, and mind you I just play for fun so this might not be all that efficient: Champion w/ Halberd Apothecary w/ SB Standard Bearer with SB & PF plus Deathwing banner (I have mine converted so he's holding the banner pole in his power fist, so he punches people through the banner :D) x2 Terminator with TH & SS I then take a Company Master in termie armor. I stick the banner in the back and screen the unit with the two TH&SS termies up front to be able to use their 3++ against incoming fire first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EPK Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 There is no option for a guy with SB and Power Sword. It should be the apothecary! Yes, I'm bitter about the no CC weapon. That's also why I prefer your load out. The Apoth seems out of place, so not even worth it (especially if you consider you are paying 30 points for FNP but loosing reliable attacks). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balthamal Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 Could someone clarify at the moment since I'm in work, do Deathiwng squads have to make a DWA to benefit from vengeful strike? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gratan Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 There is no option for a guy with SB and Power Sword. It should be the apothecary! Yes, I'm bitter about the no CC weapon. That's also why I prefer your load out. The Apoth seems out of place, so not even worth it (especially if you consider you are paying 30 points for FNP but loosing reliable attacks). I would never haave known otherwise had I not been looking at the entry closely while building my DW Command Squad. I'm not magnetizing them, so I wanted to make sure I had it right. IT is odd they dont get a Sergeant, but the Champion fills that role anyway. I came close to to building a Sergeant... which would have sucked... The Apothecary is worth it for those instances when you are not taking the Banner of Fortitude. Remember, that banner is 85 points... thats a lot in some games... the Apthecary is only a 30 point upgrade. Thats 45 points than could be used elsewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elphilo Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 Could someone clarify at the moment since I'm in work, do Deathiwng squads have to make a DWA to benefit from vengeful strike? The rule says it has to arrive by deep strike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion El Jason Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 Currently my command squad is: Champion Apothecary TH&SS with Deathwing Company Banner TH&SS with CML TH&SS They are mostly there to DWA and get rear strikes on an important vehicle then meet up with the land raider wave to give multiple squads the banner benefit. I am finding (With pure DW) I still never have enough troops so things like First Blood become important and DWA really helps with that! If they fail, FnP and 3++ means the squad survive to get me that VP next turn, rather than giving that point away as a non Storm Shield squad could. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EPK Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 The Apothecary is worth it for those instances when you are not taking the Banner of Fortitude. Remember, that banner is 85 points... thats a lot in some games... the Apthecary is only a 30 point upgrade. Thats 45 points than could be used elsewhere. That's true. It just feels wrong for a terminator to have no CC weapon. I guess he whips out his Astartes blade like other marines. I need to get over it. Maybe I'm just bitter I had to rip off my TH/SS Apoth's arms, lol. I might just field him armless for a while - he just head butts people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avon Rekaes Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 I am bitter about the lost of CCW on the Apothecary too. I had mine with the squad's chainfist (which was modeled to have an narthecium built into it. Now it's just a giant narthecium. Ho-hum.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xeraxen Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 Isn't it still possible to give the Apothecary a TH/SS since the TH/SS entry says 'swap all weapons with...'? So you'd be swapping the storm bolter, technically, since that's the only weapon he'd have at the moment. Also, what about a PC as an option for another bloke in the squad? The Apothecary FnP still works on Get Hot this edition, eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avon Rekaes Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 I'm pretty sure the TH&SS swap says "A/any Deathwing Termnator may...". The Deathwing Apothecary isn't a Deathwing Terminator, he's a Deathwing Apothecary (with his own stat-line), so he's ineligible for that swap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elphilo Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 Isn't it still possible to give the Apothecary a TH/SS since the TH/SS entry says 'swap all weapons with...'? So you'd be swapping the storm bolter, technically, since that's the only weapon he'd have at the moment. I don't think it works like that unfortunately. The Deathwing command squad entry says: "Any Deathwing Terminator may replace all of his weapons with:" followed by weapon choices. While to get an apothecary one must upgrade a Deathwing Terminator to a Deathwing Apothecary. So it is no longer a Deathwing Terminator. I hope they FAQ it so you can, since my Apothecary is modeled with a TH/SS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Immolator Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 That's true. It just feels wrong for a terminator to have no CC weapon. I guess he wips out his Astartes blade like other marines. I need to get over it. Maybe I'm just bitter I had to rip off my TH/SS Apoth's arms, lol. I might just field him armless for a while - he just head butts people. He has the narthecium, remember that thing has saws and stuff to penetrate armor and remove the geeneseed inside. Not strong as PF but imagine what it would do to a regular human. In fact a sang priest did use it on a human in the BA omnibus. Messy, really messy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agerjag Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 I dont think that you can take TH/SS on apoc as he needs to replace a PF with his narthium and youd no longer qualify for that swap. I am still wondering however if I can give a Deathwing Terminator a missile launcher and then swap his pf for narthium making him a apoc with launcher? For now I will be playing assuming I cannot, it just bothers me that it isnt clear in that regard. Also can I take TH/SS and then take a ML or do I have to do everything in order so that when I tried to trade all weapons for TH/SS I also lose my launcher.... This will need an FAQ and most likely not an errata, but maybe if something is really off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion El Jason Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 I haven't had a terminator with no CCW since way back in the day with the Cyclone targeter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EPK Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 That's true. It just feels wrong for a terminator to have no CC weapon. I guess he wips out his Astartes blade like other marines. I need to get over it. Maybe I'm just bitter I had to rip off my TH/SS Apoth's arms, lol. I might just field him armless for a while - he just head butts people. He has the narthecium, remember that thing has saws and stuff to penetrate armor and remove the geeneseed inside. Not strong as PF but imagine what it would do to a regular human. In fact a sang priest did use it on a human in the BA omnibus. Messy, really messy. Fair enough, than I expect it to get a weapons profile to add at least AP3 to it. If it can cut into TDA with the Doc's full attention, it certainly can make it through Power Armor in combat. That actually wouldn't be such a bad idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EPK Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 I dont think that you can take TH/SS on apoc as he needs to replace a PF with his narthium and youd no longer qualify for that swap. I am still wondering however if I can give a Deathwing Terminator a missile launcher and then swap his pf for narthium making him a apoc with launcher? For now I will be playing assuming I cannot, it just bothers me that it isnt clear in that regard. Also can I take TH/SS and then take a ML or do I have to do everything in order so that when I tried to trade all weapons for TH/SS I also lose my launcher.... This will need an FAQ and most likely not an errata, but maybe if something is really off. TH/SS + CML seems totally a clear cut yes. Taking any other weapons meant only for a "Deathwing Terminator" and then upgrading to an "Deathwing Apothecary" may be a gray area. Does buying upgrades even happen in a certain order or is it like they all happen at once? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Immolator Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 That's true. It just feels wrong for a terminator to have no CC weapon. I guess he wips out his Astartes blade like other marines. I need to get over it. Maybe I'm just bitter I had to rip off my TH/SS Apoth's arms, lol. I might just field him armless for a while - he just head butts people. He has the narthecium, remember that thing has saws and stuff to penetrate armor and remove the geeneseed inside. Not strong as PF but imagine what it would do to a regular human. In fact a sang priest did use it on a human in the BA omnibus. Messy, really messy. Fair enough, than I expect it to get a weapons profile to add at least AP3 to it. If it can cut into TDA with the Doc's full attention, it certainly can make it through Power Armor in combat. That actually wouldn't be such a bad idea. You would need to give that to every apothecary out there though. I dont think that you can take TH/SS on apoc as he needs to replace a PF with his narthium and youd no longer qualify for that swap. I am still wondering however if I can give a Deathwing Terminator a missile launcher and then swap his pf for narthium making him a apoc with launcher? For now I will be playing assuming I cannot, it just bothers me that it isnt clear in that regard. Also can I take TH/SS and then take a ML or do I have to do everything in order so that when I tried to trade all weapons for TH/SS I also lose my launcher.... This will need an FAQ and most likely not an errata, but maybe if something is really off. TH/SS + CML seems totally a clear cut yes. Taking any other weapons meant only for a "Deathwing Terminator" and then upgrading to an Apoth may be a gray area. Does buying upgrades even happen in a certain order or is it like they all happen at once? Its not a grey area at all. A deathwing terminator is a different entry than the deathwing apothecary. Thereby he has his own different options/restrictions. Such an arguement had been steered back and forth when the BA codex appeared about the wargear of their terminators. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EPK Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 That's true. It just feels wrong for a terminator to have no CC weapon. I guess he wips out his Astartes blade like other marines. I need to get over it. Maybe I'm just bitter I had to rip off my TH/SS Apoth's arms, lol. I might just field him armless for a while - he just head butts people. He has the narthecium, remember that thing has saws and stuff to penetrate armor and remove the geeneseed inside. Not strong as PF but imagine what it would do to a regular human. In fact a sang priest did use it on a human in the BA omnibus. Messy, really messy. Fair enough, than I expect it to get a weapons profile to add at least AP3 to it. If it can cut into TDA with the Doc's full attention, it certainly can make it through Power Armor in combat. That actually wouldn't be such a bad idea. You would need to give that to every apothecary out there though. I dont think that you can take TH/SS on apoc as he needs to replace a PF with his narthium and youd no longer qualify for that swap. I am still wondering however if I can give a Deathwing Terminator a missile launcher and then swap his pf for narthium making him a apoc with launcher? For now I will be playing assuming I cannot, it just bothers me that it isnt clear in that regard. Also can I take TH/SS and then take a ML or do I have to do everything in order so that when I tried to trade all weapons for TH/SS I also lose my launcher.... This will need an FAQ and most likely not an errata, but maybe if something is really off. TH/SS + CML seems totally a clear cut yes. Taking any other weapons meant only for a "Deathwing Terminator" and then upgrading to an Apoth may be a gray area. Does buying upgrades even happen in a certain order or is it like they all happen at once? Its not a grey area at all. A deathwing terminator is a different entry than the deathwing apothecary. Thereby he has his own different options/restrictions. Such an arguement had been steered back and forth when the BA codex appeared about the wargear of their terminators. Well, I did say "may". I've never read a rule about the order of buying upgrades nor do I know about the BA issue. They could have stymied the whole argument and said "Replaces all wargear with a narthecium and storm bolter" - they've done that for other entries. I do however agree that at least in a rules as intended way, they mean for the Apoth to not be able to have those options. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronin_eX Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 Deathwing Command Squad will be equipped differently depending on the army. In non-DW armies without Belial I'll use it as a slot-free Deathwing squad, perhaps with a Champion, but most likely just equipped as a regular shooting squad. In a Deathwing army I will probably run a Champ and a Banner on a TH/SS guy. The rest will probably be shootier (or perhaps go all melee with a CML). The banner will flucuate between the Company Standard or the Standard of Fortitude if I am going with a heavy Knight contingent. Edit - And the wording of the DW Command is pretty clear. If the Deathwing Apothecary could take additional close combat options then it would read "Any model can...", instead it reads "Any Deathwing Terminator may...". That is pretty clear right there. No messing about with swap timing/priority. It is not even an option once the model becomes a Deathwing Apothecary. Same thing goes for the Deathwing Champion. The same goes in the other command squads where a model chooses a new profile. In a normal Command Squad the Company Champion is stuck with the Blade of Caliban and combat shield because he stops being a Veteran. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agerjag Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 Deathwing Command Squad will be equipped differently depending on the army. In non-DW armies without Belial I'll use it as a slot-free Deathwing squad, perhaps with a Champion, but most likely just equipped as a regular shooting squad. In a Deathwing army I will probably run a Champ and a Banner on a TH/SS guy. The rest will probably be shootier (or perhaps go all melee with a CML). The banner will flucuate between the Company Standard or the Standard of Fortitude if I am going with a heavy Knight contingent. Edit - And the wording of the DW Command is pretty clear. If the Deathwing Apothecary could take additional close combat options then it would read "Any model can...", instead it reads "Any Deathwing Terminator may...". That is pretty clear right there. No messing about with swap timing/priority. It is not even an option once the model becomes a Deathwing Apothecary. Same thing goes for the Deathwing Champion. The same goes in the other command squads where a model chooses a new profile. In a normal Command Squad the Company Champion is stuck with the Blade of Caliban and combat shield because he stops being a Veteran. While I agree that may be the intended, what we are saying is that you take options before you upgrade to Apoc (still have to have a PF to trade of course). If you do have to make him an apoc or champ before any other options thats fine, I jsut wish it was actually clear. Hopefully if will just be a little FAQ question and answer just to calrfiy as thats what FAQ is for. EDIT: I meant that I agree with your assesment as to how it should be. Just to be clear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spu00sed Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 I guess he wips out his Astartes blade like other marines. This made me giggle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xeraxen Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 I guess he wips out his Astartes blade like other marines. The SoB love it when this happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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