A couple of scandalous wargear prices

[Chairman_woo]

So to be clear I love DA deeply, they are my joint 2nd fave chapter ever (my heart does and always will belong to BA 1st)

 

So naturally I was pretty stoked to have a new excuse to dig out the old darkangel models, throw in a few new kits and smash some face with the new codex....

 

And its great, fluffy, plenty of options & playstyles etc. but I noticed atleast a couple of pts costs that raised an eyebrow

 

Specifically I'm thinking of things like.

 

Assault cannons being a full power weapon cheaper than everyone else pays for the same gun (on better termies who can split fire to boot!)

 

Cyclones a full plasmagun cheaper than everyone elses

 

Storm shields for vets that cost HALF what everyone else pays!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (this is the one that really messes with my head tbh).

 

Devastators getting even cheaper again.

 

 

 

This isn't a codex creep rant (well sortof lol), I'm just curious as to wether anyone can think of a good reason for GW/Vetlock doing this, and for that matter a good reason why the same pts reduction shouldn't be retconned to other codexes? I know there was much wailing and gnashing of teeth over things like cheap Grey hunters etc. but I understand the ballance there, they have no sgt's etc.

 

I get why ravenwing get almost free teleport holmers etc.or deathwing are better than your average termy (same reason BA vanguard can do HI with only 6" scatter when other chapters can't etc.)

 

I just don't get why stormshields of all things would go down to half the price, or assault cannons to nearly half the price etc.

 

Did I miss a meeting because those items of wargear have been steadily increacing in price on account of their sheere awesomeness codex after codex and suddernly they have become dirt cheap again (and remain just as good as they were). Right now I'm considering allowing other marine players to take the reduced codex DA costs to ballance things out because frankly I'd feel embarrased making my opponent pay double for the exact same item of wargear on their squads (though I'm prepared to just eat it when playing as BA for gloating rights when I manage win anyway, and a handy windup exuse when I dont :D)

 

Thoughts?

[Brother Amarel]

Thoughts?

Nothing exists in a vacuum?

 

Apropos this, it should be pointed out that while you use the points cost of Power Weapons and Plasma Guns to point out different values, those two things are the same cost in the DA Codex.

 

And also, simply changing everyone's point values without altering other bits would cause carnage. For now accept that DA Whirlwinds are cheaper but that their Vindicators and base Razorbacks cost more than other SM chapters. Accept that they can't take Attack Bike Squadrons, but can pick one up in the same FOC as a Bike Squadron. And so on.

[Avon Rekaes]

Also accept that our Vets have no Heroic Intervention, no Special Issue Ammo. Instead our Vets get... cheaper storm shields? That we still have to pay for unlike Codex vet's included special rules?

 

I haven't checked this, but I've heard our basic tactical marines cost cheaper per marine too, but their wargear costs more. Works out to be almost the same.

 

Like Brother Amarel said, nothing exists in a vacuum. You can't balance individual pieces of wargear at a time, just take the codex as a whole vs. another.

 

Look at our last edition codex. When the rules for storm sheilds were updated to allow the save to be taken out of close combat, we got that update but our Terminators could still swap their weapons for TH&SS for free. That was intentional, or they would have included the points cost increase in the FAQ just as easily.

 

Now our codex has been entirely revamped, and swapping for TH&SS now cost 5 points for DW termies. This increased point cost is internally balanced with the rest of our units and army as a whole. Does that swap cost more, less, or the same for Codex/BA/SW terminators?

 

Don't know, don't care. Has no relevance to my codex.

[Brother dean]

Perhaps those option prices went down because our base Terminators are already more expensive than Vanilla Smurfs. Perhaps it is because we have old tech? Perhaps it is because we have been the kicking boys for three editions?...

[Chairman_woo]

I agree. And where most of the benefits in the new DA codex go it makes perfect sense. Deathwing & ravenwing etc. are supposed to be better and be able to do things others can't for around the same sort of costs. Likewise fancy unique bits of wargear like the halberd of caliban are supposed to be awesomesauce and unlike things everyone else can take, I get that.

 

I just don't get how the exact same stormshield on veterans which are essentially the same as everyone elses get half price SS? And I don't get why the otherwise perfectly well ballanced assault cannon sudernly became nearly half the price too? There is no inherent disadvantage associated with either of those things I can see, especially the SS.

 

Not saying its broken (it'll take more than 20-50ish pts saving over a whole army to brake a list), I'm just anticipating the difficult conversation when other players realise these items of wargear are significantly cheaper than theirs for no obviously good reason. I'm sick of arguing against the idea of codex creep with people (I've always considered it a but if a misnomer) but parts of this book are making my life very difficult in this regard.

[Chairman_woo]

Also accept that our Vets have no Heroic Intervention, no Special Issue Ammo. Instead our Vets get... cheaper storm shields? That we still have to pay for unlike Codex vet's included special rules?

 

 

This makes much sense thankyou!

[Avon Rekaes]

EDIT: Woop, ninja'd. Looks like you saw my point afterall ^^;

[Chairman_woo]

Yup I think I'm just being knee jerky here aren't I?

 

Never mind, thanks for talking me round guys.

 

Now to do the same for my playgroup :-S

[Avon Rekaes]

Also, the assaultcannon can possibly be explained by the fact that we also have access to different types of heavy weapons in our terminator squads, and the price of the assault cannon is relative to those (looking at you, plasma cannon).

 

Also Deathwing Terminators can intermix shooty and close-combat terminators into one unit, unlike codex marines (Not sure about BA or SW termie squads). Which means you simply cannot judge points cost relative to those other units, because our unit is far too different. It needs to be balanced differently.

[Brother dean]

Now to do the same for my playgroup :-S

 

You're on your own there... But since half of them will bandwagon jump to our codex, maybe you wont have to.