Is anyone else baffled by the Blades of Caliban?

[Xeraxen]

1h, +1 str, AP3 and unwieldy.

 

...

 

This had better get Faq'd. >_> There's no point in taking a champion if it remains this way. Why not just give the bloke a power axe? Indeed and how odd is it that Halberds made from broken Blades are far better. Wouldn't the Halberd of Caliban profile lead logically to the Blade profile being AP 2 or losing unwieldy or something?

 

Your thoughts brothers?

[MadDoc]

It is somewhat lackluster for a Champions weapon. Not sure what GW had in mind there to be honest.

[Rizara]

Well the champions weapon is't great but considering they can't replace it with anything, and they come with combat shields that can be upgraded to a stormshield, they wont get or need the extra attack, so unwieldy makes sense as they are coming with a shield in the other hand. They basically get a powersword, with +1 str, an invunerable save in close combat, and no extra attacks. The Unwieldy might as well not be printed their as it is pointless, but it is probably their to cover everything on the champion incase someone manages to find a loophole or way around the extra attack. As it stands, they basically get a sword and board and hit a little harder.

[Xeraxen]

Perhaps it was originally meant to be a +1 str power sword and the unwieldy trait made it's way into the entry. The unwieldy aspect is what sets it off - it's not like the combat shield can be reliable to block any AP3 stuff before he can strike back.

 

[speaking of which, what is the point of the combat shield anyway?]

[MadDoc]

Well the champions weapon is't great but considering they can't replace it with anything, and they come with combat shields that can be upgraded to a stormshield, they wont get or need the extra attack, so unwieldy makes sense as they are coming with a shield in the other hand. They basically get a powersword, with +1 str, an invunerable save in close combat, and no extra attacks. The Unwieldy might as well not be printed their as it is pointless, but it is probably their to cover everything on the champion incase someone manages to find a loophole or way around the extra attack. As it stands, they basically get a sword and board and hit a little harder.

What are you talking about? Unwieldy doesn't prevent the Champion getting a second attack it makes the Blade of Caliban strike at Initiative 1.

 

Edit - To be clear, Unwieldy is not the same as the Two-handed special rule.

[Harleqvin]

Keep in mind the Blade of Caliban is a 5 point buy.

 

It's a Sword that is +1 str AP3 and unwieldy. but it's only 5 points... Oh and it technically gives a biker +1 WS. because making the biker a Champion for 5 points you get the Blade of Caliban the Champion has WS5.

 

So it's like paying 5 points for +1 WS and weapon +1str AP3 Unwieldy.

[MadDoc]

Keep in mind the Blade of Caliban is a 5 point buy.

 

It's a Sword that is +1 str AP3 and unwieldy. but it's only 5 points... Oh and it technically gives a biker +1 WS. because making the biker a Champion for 5 points you get the Blade of Caliban the Champion has WS5.

 

So it's like paying 5 points for +1 WS and weapon +1str AP3 Unwieldy.

Only for a Ravenwing Command Squad where its replacing the models normal Corvus hammer (a far better weapon than the ccw it replaces in a normal Command squad).

 

Regardless, I can't help but feel that its an rather lackluster weapon for a Champion.

[Lion El Jason]

Its annoying because if you want to do it properly your champion should do challenges but with an unwieldy weapon he's asking to be killed.

 

Combat shields are pointless since they were dropped to 6++. Hateful rule, totally worthless.

[GlauG]

I've voiced the same question in another thread... it's basically put me off of the idea of champions... which was enough to put me off the RW Command Squad. >_>

[Harleqvin]

Keep in mind the Blade of Caliban is a 5 point buy.

It's a Sword that is +1 str AP3 and unwieldy. but it's only 5 points... Oh and it technically gives a biker +1 WS. because making the biker a Champion for 5 points you get the Blade of Caliban the Champion has WS5.

So it's like paying 5 points for +1 WS and weapon +1str AP3 Unwieldy.

Only for a Ravenwing Command Squad where its replacing the models normal Corvus hammer (a far better weapon than the ccw it replaces in a normal Command squad).

Regardless, I can't help but feel that its an rather lackluster weapon for a Champion.

I totally forgot that the normal CS gets it with their Champion. That is kinda crap you get the Blade and CShield for +15 on the PA CS ComCham. When almost all spots for CShield is +5 points........ on a PA one it is oddly priced.

[Phoebus]

I'm glad other folks are baffled as well. The Blades of Caliban are, in essence, a Diet Power Fist. Hopefully, they'll be corrected in the next FAQ/Errata.

[Brother-Sergeant Bohemond]

I think it is a mistake and will be FAQ'd outta existence...

 

at least, I hope this will be the case.

[IndigoJack]

Agreed. AP3 unwieldy is just silly, especially on a character that's supposed to duel other characters...

[Interrogator Stobz]

You guys are dreaming if you think GW will change their new shiney rules just because nobody in their right mind would take either champ.

Suck it up for five more years ;) only in this regard ofc :P

 

At least the DW Champ swings at I4, buahaha.

 

Nuts

stobz

[JeffJedi]

I'm glad other folks are baffled as well. The Blades of Caliban are, in essence, a Diet Power Fist. Hopefully, they'll be corrected in the next FAQ/Errata.

 

Sadly they are more a Diet Power Axe.

[Xeraxen]

You guys are dreaming if you think GW will change their new shiney rules just because nobody in their right mind would take either champ.

Suck it up for five more years only in this regard ofc

Oh ye of little faith, I'll presume you don't know about Dark Eldar, do you? Thier boneswords Huskblades, SW Royal Guard Dual-bladed vibroswords demiklaives, and katanas klaives were AP3 in the beginning of 6th ed. About a month later a FAQ went up giving said weapons AP2 in addition to thier usual effects - effectively making the Archon and his Incubi bodyguards capable of giving terminators and other elites a swift kick in the behind again like in 5th ed.

Point being, things aren't set in stone. And Jeremy Vetock's codexes invariablly end up getting huge amounts of FaQ anyway.

So, just like hoping that the Lion will quit hitting his bloody snooze alarm, we can hope for a decent Blade of Caliban profile.

[Interrogator Stobz]

Faith is for the chaos worshippers and the weak minded meat sacks of the imperium. Sons of the Lion KNOW we'll always have to overcome adversary, this time we'll have to do it without Champs :P

 

Not a bad dex this time around though; thank you Mr V for giving it a reasonable shot :tu:

 

B+

 

Stobz

[Harleqvin]

I'm glad other folks are baffled as well. The Blades of Caliban are, in essence, a Diet Power Fist. Hopefully, they'll be corrected in the next FAQ/Errata.

 

I thought Power Axes were diet Powerfists? Wouldn't this this be the Powerfist Zero or Powerfist Max version? :lol:

[Phoebus]

Whichever you prefer! :D

 

Bottom line, I think any melee weapon that gets the Unwieldy rule without also receiving something to make it viable vs. a Power Fist (which doubles your Strength and gives AP 2) is kind of pointless. For instance, the Eviscerator has Armourbane, but is also Two-handed... differentiating it from the Power Fist substantially. I'd rather see a Power Axe be Two-handed as well - or otherwise be stated so as to prevent you from using it with a second melee weapon - than to be deemed as slow as a Power Fist.

[facmanpob]

Point being, things aren't set in stone. And Jeremy Vetock's codexes invariablly end up getting huge amounts of FaQ anyway.

That's actually completely untrue.

Skaven Army book - 8 page FAQ

Orcs & Goblins Army book - 2 page FAQ

Ogre Kingdoms Army book - 2 page FAQ

If we run the numbers on the Blade of Caliban vs MEQ, the increase in WS and Strength give a 16% chance increase in hits and wounds respectively, and the weapon is Ap3, so no armour saves. Taken with a bolt pistol for +1 A and assuming they are on the charge, thats 4 attacks for the champion, which over a large sample size will give 1 or 2 unsaveable wounds per turn. Admittedly these are at I 1, so he really needs to be supported by a veteran with a storm shield to ensure he makes it to the party.

The big issue is challenges, and the way round this is to ensure that the Command squad is running with a character who is happy to accept any challenges, leaving the Command Squad to deal with the rest of the grunts.

From a fluff standpoint, the Blade is supposed to represent a big heavy broadsword which is slow to wield, but packs a punch slightly greater than a power sword.

I don't think its that bad a weapon, tbh :)

[cielaq]

It's not bad weapon outside the challenge, but it's awful weapon in a challenge (regular vet sarge with power sword will kill him on average rolls before he will have a chance to strike) - and that's the whole problem.

[facmanpob]

It's not bad weapon outside the challenge, but it's awful weapon in a challenge (regular vet sarge with power sword will kill him on average rolls before he will have a chance to strike) - and that's the whole problem.

Yeah, but not every weapon or character has to be great at everything. Part of the interesting thing about this game is trying to work around limitations and invent interesting combinations to cover all situations. Having a Nemesis Doom Blood Templar Dark Hammer of Mightiness upgrade which deals with all situations is boring

[cielaq]

Sure, but I expect that the guy who is supposed to fight in challenges to be good at, well, you know, challenges, maybe? ;)

[facmanpob]

Sure, but I expect that the guy who is supposed to fight in challenges to be good at, well, you know, challenges, maybe?

lol - now you're applying common sense to this game! Heretic! ;)

[cielaq]

Right, cell 42 for me. ;)