Ronin_eX Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 Blades of Caliban will remain one of those head scratchers in the codex (unless they do have the wrong rules). They seem to be quite a bit cheaper than a power weapon (only +5 over a Corvus Hammer... though I think the hammer is better). Harder to notice on the normal champ because apparently the combat shield also costs as well (despite not being very good). When I first heard about it, I thought people were misquoting Unwieldy as Specialist. That kind of downside makes sense. But I'd much prefer to pay full power weapon cost for something that actually works. In most cases the BoC will not be winning any challenges. Maybe if it had some kind of one-shot mechanic ala Smite, that gave it a boost (for the same low cost it is now). Oh well, at least the Halberd is straight up awesome as a champion weapon. We'll see whether or not it is a typo when our full FAQ is rolled out (this was just a 5-day hold over to fix issues they noticed after print). But considering it seems to be cheaper than a power weapon I am not holding out hope. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/269705-is-anyone-else-baffled-by-the-blades-of-caliban/page/3/#findComment-3287491 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xeraxen Posted January 17, 2013 Author Share Posted January 17, 2013 Not really. Apart from the few debate threads as far as the rules are concerned, the new dex has brought quite a lot of new players to this section of the forum. It was rather quiet before this as it was all painting threads or the rumour thread as people waited for the new dex to drop. Ah I see! XD You had said: Awesome. Loving the life that's come back to this thread with the new dex. So I thought you meant that this particualr thread was getting life breathed back into it. Since this is a relatively newer thread, I thought you meant I was beating a dead horse. My apologies for over-analyzing. XD Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/269705-is-anyone-else-baffled-by-the-blades-of-caliban/page/3/#findComment-3287495 Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndigoJack Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 Blades of Caliban will remain one of those head scratchers in the codex (unless they do have the wrong rules). They seem to be quite a bit cheaper than a power weapon (only +5 over a Corvus Hammer... though I think the hammer is better). Harder to notice on the normal champ because apparently the combat shield also costs as well (despite not being very good). When I fieffrst heard about it, I thought people were misquoting Unwieldy as Specialist. That kind of downside makes sense. But I'd much prefer to pay full power weapon cost for something that actually works. In most cases the BoC will not be winning any challenges. Maybe if it had some kind of one-shot mechanic ala Smite, that gave it a boost (for the same low cost it is now). Oh well, at least the Halberd is straight up awesome as a champion weapon. We'll see whether or not it is a typo when our full FAQ is rolled out (this was just a 5-day hold over to fix issues they noticed after print). But considering it seems to be cheaper than a power weapon I am not holding out hope. I think the halberd is priced correctly. Remember, while other champions are only and with bolt pistols and bolters before upgrading, DW champions are armed with powerfists and storm bolsters before upgrading. So basically they're paying 5 points to lose their gun, lose 2 strength, gain plus 1WS, and strike at initiative. Sounds like a fair deal to me, since S6 will only instant kill GEQ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/269705-is-anyone-else-baffled-by-the-blades-of-caliban/page/3/#findComment-3287525 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronin_eX Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 Or insta-kill MEQ that have been hit with a Rad Grenade. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/269705-is-anyone-else-baffled-by-the-blades-of-caliban/page/3/#findComment-3287528 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phoebus Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 Looking back at the Codex, I can't imagine that this is anything other than an error that simply hasn't been caught up with yet. The illustration of the Command Squad can't possibly be meaning to depict a Champion with a mere combat shield, for instance. I can't accept that the intent was to allow for interpretations like a Veteran taking the Chapter Banner and then being upgraded to a Company Champion - who would then have the Chapter Banner AND a blade of Caliban and a combat shield. I know that this example doesn't make sense, but is there a standard bearer who gets the (Character) qualifier under Unit Type? No. Does the upgrade to Company Champion require the Veteran (now Character) to give up anything other than their chainsword? No. Or, for that matter, why is it that the RAW would allow for a standard bearer to pick up a storm shield AND a pair of lightning claws but prohibits the Champion from picking up ANYTHING else? I think it's clear that the same team who were responsible for the blade of Caliban being Unwieldy were also the same folks who forgot that a Champion might benefit from a storm shield. Again, I have no doubt that something like this (at the very least the storm shield bit) will be rectified soon. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/269705-is-anyone-else-baffled-by-the-blades-of-caliban/page/3/#findComment-3287593 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xeraxen Posted January 17, 2013 Author Share Posted January 17, 2013 Looking back at the Codex, I can't imagine that this is anything other than an error that simply hasn't been caught up with yet. The illustration of the Command Squad can't possibly be meaning to depict a Champion with a mere combat shield, for instance. I can't accept that the intent was to allow for interpretations like a Veteran taking the Chapter Banner and then being upgraded to a Company Champion - who would then have the Chapter Banner AND a blade of Caliban and a combat shield. I know that this example doesn't make sense, but is there a standard bearer who gets the (Character) qualifier under Unit Type? No. Does the upgrade to Company Champion require the Veteran (now Character) to give up anything other than their chainsword? No. Or, for that matter, why is it that the RAW would allow for a standard bearer to pick up a storm shield AND a pair of lightning claws but prohibits the Champion from picking up ANYTHING else? I think it's clear that the same team who were responsible for the blade of Caliban being Unwieldy were also the same folks who forgot that a Champion might benefit from a storm shield. Again, I have no doubt that something like this (at the very least the storm shield bit) will be rectified soon. Let's hope it's rectified then, because a Champion with the Blade and a storm shield would be fan-freaking-tastic! :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/269705-is-anyone-else-baffled-by-the-blades-of-caliban/page/3/#findComment-3287622 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Amarel Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 Looking back at the Codex, I can't imagine that this is anything other than an error that simply hasn't been caught up with yet. The illustration of the Command Squad can't possibly be meaning to depict a Champion with a mere combat shield, for instance. What picture are you looking at? The one I'm looking at has got someone who might be a champion holding a shield (which might be a combat shield) and the hilt of a sword can be seen in his other hand. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/269705-is-anyone-else-baffled-by-the-blades-of-caliban/page/3/#findComment-3287882 Share on other sites More sharing options...
shabbadoo Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 I guess the purpose of the Company Champion + Sword of Caliban "upgrade" is to have a cheap option for a unit character to nobly die simultaneously with your opponent's powerfist-armed unit character? I think I have that painted in the brightest light, right? :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/269705-is-anyone-else-baffled-by-the-blades-of-caliban/page/3/#findComment-3287947 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diavlo Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 I guess the purpose of the Company Champion + Sword of Caliban "upgrade" is to have a cheap option for a unit character to nobly die simultaneously with your opponent's powerfist-armed unit character? I think I have that painted in the brightest light, right? Or bullseye on his forehead Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/269705-is-anyone-else-baffled-by-the-blades-of-caliban/page/3/#findComment-3288047 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phoebus Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 Looking back at the Codex, I can't imagine that this is anything other than an error that simply hasn't been caught up with yet. The illustration of the Command Squad can't possibly be meaning to depict a Champion with a mere combat shield, for instance. What picture are you looking at? The one I'm looking at has got someone who might be a champion holding a shield (which might be a combat shield) and the hilt of a sword can be seen in his other hand. That's the one. Personally, I have a hard time imagining a shield that large/fancy being a mere combat shield. :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/269705-is-anyone-else-baffled-by-the-blades-of-caliban/page/3/#findComment-3288292 Share on other sites More sharing options...
antacidbrn Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 Perhaps this has already been said, if so, I apologize. But, is the Blade of Caliban's Unwieldy rule mitigated by Stasis bomb impact? I think that lowers Initiative so the Champion will hit at the same time as the stasis impacted squad in most instances. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/269705-is-anyone-else-baffled-by-the-blades-of-caliban/page/3/#findComment-3288307 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phoebus Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 That would be nice, I suppose, but it's still a reach to assume that a champion would need a flyer to drop a bomb in order to be semi-valid where his signature activity is concerned. :/ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/269705-is-anyone-else-baffled-by-the-blades-of-caliban/page/3/#findComment-3288325 Share on other sites More sharing options...
antacidbrn Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 @Phoebus Very true...that is not much of a champion is it? But with the way we fight wars in this Millenium, Drones do most of the heavy lifting and the infantry cleans up. The Dark Talon is going to be in every single one of my lists at this point, so that will most likely be how I use it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/269705-is-anyone-else-baffled-by-the-blades-of-caliban/page/3/#findComment-3288371 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phoebus Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 That's fair, brother! :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/269705-is-anyone-else-baffled-by-the-blades-of-caliban/page/3/#findComment-3288438 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Immolator Posted January 20, 2013 Share Posted January 20, 2013 The company champion...what where they thinking? Good thing we got deathwing, or spacewolfs would be laughing every time they faced us. "Blade of Caliban" more like blade of fail, and the combatshield only makes it worse. At least he can die a heroic death and hold up strong characters for a turn (in which he dies ). Well, you cant have it all I suppose. Maybe we missed a rule that states "if champion dies then all units within 12" have +2Attacks for 3 turns" that would make sense to give him such a weapon. That would make him like the GK Brotherhood Champion as a kamikaze unit. *DA Champion: *Gagged and tied up, is shoved towards Chaos Champion by the rest of the CMD Squad.* Apothecary: "We so totally have your back, brother!" DA Champ: "Mmpph! Mpppphm!! Mmmmpth!?!" Chaos Champ: "...?" *Shrugs* *Stabs* DA Champ: "Mmmmmpphh!" *Dies* Chaos Champ: "Yay! Boon me Dark Gods!" Apothecary: "By the Lion! He killed our Champion!" Banner Carrier: "You jerks!" Apothecary: "He's dead Jim, I'm a marine not a doctor, I did all I could!" Banner Carrier: "Well... actualy you are a doctor, and my name's not Jim..." Apothecary: "It's in the past, there's no time for grieving! GET HIM!" Chaos Champ: "!?!" OMG, They killed Kenny...You B%%%%%%s! loved that. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/269705-is-anyone-else-baffled-by-the-blades-of-caliban/page/3/#findComment-3290177 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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