New FAQs!

[Iron_Within]

Now if only they will make TS relentless

[Seahawk]

Jeske, why would Abby not be able to join any unit? Not saying he's viable at all but he should be able to join any unit he wants.

Before he could, because he had all the marks. If the he had a different mark to a unit he joined (and he always did, because no other units have all four marks), he couldn't join them.

 

See: Long thread.

[Zhukov]

not convinced yet. your list seems okay (needs more AT than only 3 oblits),

Blastmasters are okay now as AT and helldrakes still vector strike. Could be worse, really.

 

but the NM units with sirens should be advancing. while doing so, their uber-expensive sonic blasters will be just like bolters - yeah, they ignore cover, but the salvo rules make then not fire at >12" at all, while still prohibiting charges. they seem to confict with the champion's siren, which is geared for assault.

It's not as bad as it seems: Shoot the assaulters, assault the shooters. Siren is also a deterrent against people assaulting you. Basicly, 15 points for a Heavy Flamer with Ap3 is a steal.

 

 

another question is whether the FnP icon is viable and in what unit configurations (10+? at all?)

I think never, you probably shouldn't have that much points left or avoid setups where it is viable. (in a 10 man unit with 2x blastmaster, I would take it, but I wouldnt take a 10 man unit with 2 blastmasters in the first place)

 

 

also: no bike retinue for your lord ;D

Not needed, Lord can hop from squad to squad and if wanted go out to assault something squishy himself. Just because you can move faster, doesn't mean you have to :)

 

 

And as I got more time, I'll explain in more detail why I think this FAQ is huge:

 

Helldrake is so incredibly strong now that it singlehandily ups the codex it's power. Compare it to the Vendetta or Annihilation Barge + Nightscythe. Apparantly some played it already in this way, well frankly, that was irrelevant as for tournament play you could not count on people playing it that way. Now you can.

Pretty funny, but not just the Baleflamer gets a huge boost, the Hades Cannon gets an arguably even bigger boost, being able to rather easily shoot other fliers in the rear now. (vector strike + rear shots with S8 makes it pretty damn good at anti-flier basicly). Not that I would advice suddenly taking the Hades Cannon, Baleflamer OP baby.

Because the Helldrake is so strong in the anti-infantry department, we can afford focusing less on killing infantry with lists. Not only that: It will change how other people build their lists, foot marines basicly is extinct now lol.

 

Just so people understand it: The Helldrake has a lot of movement freedom now, ignoring the biggest weakness of fliers. In theory you never have to leave the table while still being able to fire each turn. Bossmode turkey.

 

The Blastmaster change is also bigger than it seems at first glance. The codex as a whole suffers from bad fire support. Now they suddenly gave us 5 fearless marines carrying the best heavy weapon in the game, as troops. (unless you don't want it)

This puts less pressure on other FoC slots, opening possibilities of using other units.

Basicly, you go from this:

10 man; blastmaster 210, to this:

5 man; blastmaster 125

The 2nd squad is 85(!) points cheaper, while staying practical the same. (as in: you didn't want those extra bodies anyways)

 

But yes, you don't suddenly have to take sonic blaster squads or whatever. In my defense: I wrote that list in 3 mins, before my ride arrived.

 

 

Basicly, new builds potentially opened up because of this and you can now allow yourself to take a 'fun' choice while still having an 'okay' build. That's more looking like a codex I enjoy playing.

[Iron Sage]

I always claimed that it was the Kharne issue of 1`s was always intended to play like this, but it was terribly worded. Glad to see they fixed this now.

 

Verry happy with the Helldragon and Noise changes. The Helldragon is now pretty awesome compared to everything but the vendetta (which was created before the whole flier thing obviously), which is nice ;)

 

Digression, I am also quite happy about the new DA codex. It was balanced (relativly) like chaos and not the old power creep, where consecutive codices are better and better (which I think everyone who plays chaos now fears, and rightly due to GW history). I did grumble for myself about puny loyalist terminators who should be like children compared to our elite, being more "elite" (thankfully their cost is balanced) than our precious termies, but meh, thats codex balance for you I guess.

 

Ps. Happy New year everyone! Not been active for a while here unfortunatly (horrid new layout by the way :/ ), so my best wishes to the chaos guys even though its fairly late :)

[Spacefrisian]

I knew Noisemarines were good to go, now more have seen the light.

 

BTW: you want some Slaanesh Sorceror around boosting Sonic weaponry even more, no doubt some of you already knew this.

[Azekai]

This FAQ really pleases me. Khârn is a monster now, as he should be. Daemons also got a new FAQ, but all it does is state in black and white that zombies do not count towards the tally. Nothing spectacularly surprising there.

 

Lucius' weapon being an artifact confuses me. What difference does it make if it is a 'close combat or melee

weapon?'

[Zhorzh]

The fact that GW actually did this is interesting...

They showed that they can do it with previous FAQ and Helbrute price change.

 

That was a typo correction. This looks less like a typo correction and more like a straight up buff.

[Brother Ambroz]

Jeske, why would Abby not be able to join any unit? Not saying he's viable at all but he should be able to join any unit he wants.

Before he could, because he had all the marks. If the he had a different mark to a unit he joined (and he always did, because no other units have all four marks), he couldn't join them. See: Long thread.

 

I realize Seahawk. I'm asking why he thinks they shouldn't have changed it.

[VoteForPedro]

Lucius' weapon being an artifact confuses me. What difference does it make if it is a 'close combat or melee

weapon?'

 

I think it'll stop him getting an extra attack for 2 close combat weapons.

[Ammonius]

Time to buy another chicken me thinks, I love making SW's foot armies cry.

This might be a slight tangent but as a "counts as" for Iron Warriors would anyone take issue with using Volkite Calivers or Chargers as Sonic Blasters? I would figure that Calivers would be too small for Blastmasters? what's peoples thoughts?

 

More on topic; I think Sonic marines are vastly more viable. a kitted squad with SB and BM is 261, 60 odd points more than a basic double plas CSM squad, but I know which has more bang bor it's buck. I'm guessing your MSU BM squads would be objective camping? I'm not are sure about the 10 man squads would it be viable to take combat weapons instead? and be a fearless I5 DB flaming charg unit?

Oooh! I like the idea of using those cool looking Volkite guns as "Slightly less flamboyant Noise Marine" guns. As far as the Caliver being too small, why not add power cables to the backpack made of guitar strings or equivalent? Or perhaps there is a dual Caliver mounted on the backpack conversion that could work?

 

I think that Noise Marines are now set to be Prime candidates for infiltration via Master of Deception. Put them where they will get some full salvo shots from cover.

[Vesper]

A grumpy russian will be able to field his Noise Marines again.

[jb7090]

How do the new "out of range" shooting rules affect the sonic blasters in you guys opinion?

 

Since you always use the longest range of any weapon being fired to determine what models are "in range" and therefore viable to be pulled, wouldent that make the salvo 2/3 a lot more viable since now you can move and still fire 24" if you keep at least 1 boltgun.

[FallenOne]

LOL! So, all those flames I got have been purged. One per fraction of 10, just like I said, preserving our sacred numbers. Noise Champs with proper weapons, just like I said.

 

I would love to go collect all the flameful posts, the nasty PM's, but I won't.

 

That wording was different, because it meant something different.

 

I am pumped. This general is making it back to the battlefield, 10,000 points of Emperor's children, including 12 noise maring squads, in tow!

[Vesper]

LOL! So, all those flames I got have been purged. One per fraction of 10, just like I said, preserving our sacred numbers. Noise Champs with proper weapons, just like I said. I would love to go collect all the flameful posts, the nasty PM's, but I won't. That wording was different, because it meant something different. I am pumped. This general is making it back to the battlefield, 10,000 points of Emperor's children, including 12 noise maring squads, in tow!

Gawd, post some pictures or something !

[Iron_Within]

Time to buy another chicken me thinks, I love making SW's foot armies cry.

This might be a slight tangent but as a "counts as" for Iron Warriors would anyone take issue with using Volkite Calivers or Chargers as Sonic Blasters? I would figure that Calivers would be too small for Blastmasters? what's peoples thoughts?

 

More on topic; I think Sonic marines are vastly more viable. a kitted squad with SB and BM is 261, 60 odd points more than a basic double plas CSM squad, but I know which has more bang bor it's buck. I'm guessing your MSU BM squads would be objective camping? I'm not are sure about the 10 man squads would it be viable to take combat weapons instead? and be a fearless I5 DB flaming charg unit?

Oooh! I like the idea of using those cool looking Volkite guns as "Slightly less flamboyant Noise Marine" guns. As far as the Caliver being too small, why not add power cables to the backpack made of guitar strings or equivalent? Or perhaps there is a dual Caliver mounted on the backpack conversion that could work?

 

I think that Noise Marines are now set to be Prime candidates for infiltration via Master of Deception. Put them where they will get some full salvo shots from cover.

Yeah that was my thought, I run pure IW but Volkites seem prime candidates for the kind of results that noise marines have (similarly, lots of bionics and/or shields for PM )

I was thinking of converting up a Volkite Calverin for a Blastmaster.

 

Since you always use the longest range of any weapon being fired to determine what models are "in range" and therefore viable to be pulled, wouldent that make the salvo 2/3 a lot more viable since now you can move and still fire 24" if you keep at least 1 boltgun.

What? hows that work? could you please explain this to me with references, because this is potentially breaking.

[Attomsk]

My helldrake already kicked butt, now he's going to just utterly destroy things! I wish I had room for two helldrakes now!

[Lepaca]

How do the new "out of range" shooting rules affect the sonic blasters in you guys opinion?

 

Since you always use the longest range of any weapon being fired to determine what models are "in range" and therefore viable to be pulled, wouldent that make the salvo 2/3 a lot more viable since now you can move and still fire 24" if you keep at least 1 boltgun.

 

No that is not how it works.

What this FAQ does is this: If you fire at a unit some models of which are less than 24" away and some models are farther away than 24" and the highest range of any weapon in the fireing unit is 24" then you will not be able to kill the whole unit. ONLY the models that are 24" and less away.

As soon as you have a single weapon in that unit that has a range of 36" then you can kill models up to 36" away and so on.

 

I hope this made it clearer to you!

[minionboy]

This might be a slight tangent but as a "counts as" for Iron Warriors would anyone take issue with using Volkite Calivers or Chargers as Sonic Blasters?

 

Calivers are the longer of the two and make quite nice Sonic Blasters. The Chargers are about the length of a bolter, so not quite as impressive (though I use them as my AP3 bolters for my counts-as thousand sons).

[jb7090]

How do the new "out of range" shooting rules affect the sonic blasters in you guys opinion?

 

Since you always use the longest range of any weapon being fired to determine what models are "in range" and therefore viable to be pulled, wouldent that make the salvo 2/3 a lot more viable since now you can move and still fire 24" if you keep at least 1 boltgun.

 

No that is not how it works.

What this FAQ does is this: If you fire at a unit some models of which are less than 24" away and some models are farther away than 24" and the highest range of any weapon in the fireing unit is 24" then you will not be able to kill the whole unit. ONLY the models that are 24" and less away.

As soon as you have a single weapon in that unit that has a range of 36" then you can kill models up to 36" away and so on.

 

I hope this made it clearer to you!

 

check out this diagram

https://www.dropbox....xHkGD#f:img.jpg

 

Every model there would be eligible for a wound because they are within range of the stormbolter and pistols. You can essentially extend the range of the pistols to piggyback off the bolter with the new FAQ.

 

Edit: the only thing the new FAQ does is limit wounds being allocated onto models in the enemy unit that are out of range from ALL the models that are shooting. Since the stormbolter has range, they can all be allocated.

[minionboy]

How do the new "out of range" shooting rules affect the sonic blasters in you guys opinion?

 

Since you always use the longest range of any weapon being fired to determine what models are "in range" and therefore viable to be pulled, wouldent that make the salvo 2/3 a lot more viable since now you can move and still fire 24" if you keep at least 1 boltgun.

 

The Aspiring Champion can't exchange his boltgun for anything useful anyhow, so there's a use for it!

 

 

check out this diagram

https://www.dropbox....xHkGD#f:img.jpg

 

Every model there would be eligible for a wound because they are within range of the stormbolter and pistols. You can essentially extend the range of the pistols to piggyback off the bolter with the new FAQ.

 

Edit: the only thing the new FAQ does is limit wounds being allocated onto models in the enemy unit that are out of range from ALL the models that are shooting. Since the stormbolter has range, they can all be allocated.

 

My only question is what happens to blast weapons that scatter outside of their maximum range.

[jb7090]

This is the important part of it all. You're not extending the range of the pistols in that diagram, per say. If those models had been 13" away only the storm bolter would be eligible to fire.

 

Edit: Heres a good copypasta from Dakka:

 

5 bolters shoot. The target unit is made up of 10 guys and only 1 is within 24" with 9 strung out behind it.

Pre FAQ: bolters could kill any of the 10 guys as only 1 needed to be in range and the wounds are simply allocated to the others.

Post FAQ: bolters can only kill the 1 guy who is actually within range of the weapon because the wounds cannot be allocated beyond range.

 

Next scenario:

5 bolters + 1 lascanon shoots. Same situation with target unit.

Pre FAQ: bolters+lascannon could kill any of the 10 guys.

Post FAQ: bolters+lascannon could kill any of the 10 guys... Because the lascannon that was fired means all of the models in the enemy unit are in range for wound allocation.

 

Third scenario

5 bolters + 1 lascanon. Target unit is actually at 30" range.

Pre FAQ: bolters can't shoot due to being out of range. Lascanon could.

Pre FAQ: bolters can't shoot due to being out of range. Lascanon could.

[Kastor Krieg]

The 2nd scenario is idiotic. I put a 48" range weapon into a Salvo 2/4 squad of DA tacticals (DAKKA flag!) and suddenly I have 2 shots out of each bolters, at range 48" instead of 12"?! oO

[VoteForPedro]

The 2nd scenario is idiotic. I put a 48" range weapon into a Salvo 2/4 squad of DA tacticals (DAKKA flag!) and suddently I have 2 shots out of each bolters, at range 48" instead of 12"?! oO

 

No, that's not how it works.

[Jacinda]

And just to add a little more confusion, if you replace the storm bolter with an autocannon, the pistols wind up in a different wound pool and will stop pulling models at 12" again.

[jb7090]

The 2nd scenario is idiotic. I put a 48" range weapon into a Salvo 2/4 squad of DA tacticals (DAKKA flag!) and suddenly I have 2 shots out of each bolters, at range 48" instead of 12"?! oO

 

Youre reading it wrong.

 

10 man Dark eldar unit is 11" away from your Dakka unit. You have 4 guys with bolters and 1 guy with a ML and the banner(just for argument's sake). Your squad moved so they are salvo 2 and 12" and your ML is snap firing. Since the closest model is 10" away your salvo weapons are eligible to roll to hit, along with your ML. You manage to hit and wound 5. After removing the first model the next guy is now 13" away but you are still eligible to allocate wounds because the 48" range of the ML. If you didnt have the ML you would stop because the rest of the squad would be out of range.