jb7090 Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 If you want to house rule it then by all means thats up to you and your local gaming group. However, with that being said, it's not rules as written. Heres a link to another discussion if youre interested and not like Jacinda who just rants about different colored dice without any kind of facts lol http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/500992.page Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveNYC Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 If they wanted to be absolutely clear on this, they could specify that you pool wounds based on AP and weapon range, but more granular isn't necessarily more better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacinda Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 Youre not even making any sense Jacinda. Maybe calm down and go take a walk lol. ??? Let me make it simple for you then. What was the answer in the FAQ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wargame insomniac Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 I love changes to Noise Marines and Helldrakes and like the change to Abby. This has msde me happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noctus Cornix Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 So GW released new FAQs, and there are some goodies for Chaos... Khârn doesn't hit his buddies with his first 1s, heldrake flamer is TURRET MOUNTED, Noise Marines got double buffed(their champ found his ccw and they can now take 2 blast masters at 10 models) and Abbaddon can finally join whatever unit he likes... ...but one thing i really like is this little thing from the BRB FAQ: Q: If a model with Defensive Grenades is part of or joins a unit who do not have Defensive Grenades, for example a Grey Knight Grand Master with blind grenades, does the unit they join benefit from the effects of their Defensive Grenades? (p62) A: Yes. Guess what codex can give their MoN characters(even in termie armour) Blight Grenades? Now this may just be me... But doesn't that entail that you can do the same thing with offensive grenades? So wouldn't that persay mean that by attaching a character to.... say Possessed or Warp Talons, that squad will gain the effects of Frag Grenades? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ammonius Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 So GW released new FAQs, and there are some goodies for Chaos... Khârn doesn't hit his buddies with his first 1s, heldrake flamer is TURRET MOUNTED, Noise Marines got double buffed(their champ found his ccw and they can now take 2 blast masters at 10 models) and Abbaddon can finally join whatever unit he likes... ...but one thing i really like is this little thing from the BRB FAQ: Q: If a model with Defensive Grenades is part of or joins a unit who do not have Defensive Grenades, for example a Grey Knight Grand Master with blind grenades, does the unit they join benefit from the effects of their Defensive Grenades? (p62) A: Yes. Guess what codex can give their MoN characters(even in termie armour) Blight Grenades? Now this may just be me... But doesn't that entail that you can do the same thing with offensive grenades? So wouldn't that persay mean that by attaching a character to.... say Possessed or Warp Talons, that squad will gain the effects of Frag Grenades? Oh wow, and Terminator Armor grants deep strike, so you could (in theory) Put a MoN Terminator Lord with Blight Grenades in a unit of Warp Talons, deep strike all of that, try for the Blind, gain the possible benefit of defensive grenades (depending on how close you are) vs. any close unit shooting at the Lord+Talons, and then move and charge next turn. All at the cost of a bunch of points, and the ability for the unit to perform a sweeping advance. I think the points cost might make this not work at low level games, but it could be fun(ny) in a 2000+ game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacinda Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 Now this may just be me... But doesn't that entail that you can do the same thing with offensive grenades? So wouldn't that persay mean that by attaching a character to.... say Possessed or Warp Talons, that squad will gain the effects of Frag Grenades? That is typically how we play anyway, but according to RAW, defensive grenades are by unit and assault grenades are by model. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noctus Cornix Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 So GW released new FAQs, and there are some goodies for Chaos... Khârn doesn't hit his buddies with his first 1s, heldrake flamer is TURRET MOUNTED, Noise Marines got double buffed(their champ found his ccw and they can now take 2 blast masters at 10 models) and Abbaddon can finally join whatever unit he likes... ...but one thing i really like is this little thing from the BRB FAQ: Q: If a model with Defensive Grenades is part of or joins a unit who do not have Defensive Grenades, for example a Grey Knight Grand Master with blind grenades, does the unit they join benefit from the effects of their Defensive Grenades? (p62) A: Yes. Guess what codex can give their MoN characters(even in termie armour) Blight Grenades? Now this may just be me... But doesn't that entail that you can do the same thing with offensive grenades? So wouldn't that persay mean that by attaching a character to.... say Possessed or Warp Talons, that squad will gain the effects of Frag Grenades? Oh wow, and Terminator Armor grants deep strike, so you could (in theory) Put a MoN Terminator Lord with Blight Grenades in a unit of Warp Talons, deep strike all of that, try for the Blind, gain the possible benefit of defensive grenades (depending on how close you are) vs. any close unit shooting at the Lord+Talons, and then move and charge next turn. All at the cost of a bunch of points, and the ability for the unit to perform a sweeping advance. I think the points cost might make this not work at low level games, but it could be fun(ny) in a 2000+ game. I was thinking more along the lines of attaching Kharne to a Possessed Squad or A Jump Pack Chaos Lord to a Warp Talon squad but that works too ^^; Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noctus Cornix Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 Now this may just be me... But doesn't that entail that you can do the same thing with offensive grenades? So wouldn't that persay mean that by attaching a character to.... say Possessed or Warp Talons, that squad will gain the effects of Frag Grenades? That is typically how we play anyway, but according to RAW, defensive grenades are by unit and assault grenades are by model. Can you please tell me where it says that? I would like to look that up myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Sage Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 So GW released new FAQs, and there are some goodies for Chaos... Khârn doesn't hit his buddies with his first 1s, heldrake flamer is TURRET MOUNTED, Noise Marines got double buffed(their champ found his ccw and they can now take 2 blast masters at 10 models) and Abbaddon can finally join whatever unit he likes... ...but one thing i really like is this little thing from the BRB FAQ: Q: If a model with Defensive Grenades is part of or joins a unit who do not have Defensive Grenades, for example a Grey Knight Grand Master with blind grenades, does the unit they join benefit from the effects of their Defensive Grenades? (p62) A: Yes. Guess what codex can give their MoN characters(even in termie armour) Blight Grenades? Now this may just be me... But doesn't that entail that you can do the same thing with offensive grenades? So wouldn't that persay mean that by attaching a character to.... say Possessed or Warp Talons, that squad will gain the effects of Frag Grenades? Oh wow, and Terminator Armor grants deep strike, so you could (in theory) Put a MoN Terminator Lord with Blight Grenades in a unit of Warp Talons, deep strike all of that, try for the Blind, gain the possible benefit of defensive grenades (depending on how close you are) vs. any close unit shooting at the Lord+Talons, and then move and charge next turn. All at the cost of a bunch of points, and the ability for the unit to perform a sweeping advance. I think the points cost might make this not work at low level games, but it could be fun(ny) in a 2000+ game. I was thinking more along the lines of attaching Kharne to a Possessed Squad or A Jump Pack Chaos Lord to a Warp Talon squad but that works too ^^; Nice catch! It is logical what you state. I wonder if this will be mentioned in a future FAQ. It would singlehandedly save the horrid Warp talons and possessed, and as such do a lot for our codex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minionboy Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 Now this may just be me... But doesn't that entail that you can do the same thing with offensive grenades? So wouldn't that persay mean that by attaching a character to.... say Possessed or Warp Talons, that squad will gain the effects of Frag Grenades? That is typically how we play anyway, but according to RAW, defensive grenades are by unit and assault grenades are by model. Can you please tell me where it says that? I would like to look that up myself. Have you checked Assault Grenades on page 61? "Models equipped with assault grenades dont' suffer the penalty..." That means the model has to be equipped with the grenade to not suffer the penalty. The wording for Defensive Grenades is entirely different... "Models charging units equipped with defensive grenades do not gain bonus Attacks..." This is saying if you charge a unit equipped with defensive grenades. All the FAQ does is clarify that only one model in the unit need be equipped with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noctus Cornix Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 Now this may just be me... But doesn't that entail that you can do the same thing with offensive grenades? So wouldn't that persay mean that by attaching a character to.... say Possessed or Warp Talons, that squad will gain the effects of Frag Grenades? That is typically how we play anyway, but according to RAW, defensive grenades are by unit and assault grenades are by model. Can you please tell me where it says that? I would like to look that up myself. Have you checked Assault Grenades on page 61? "Models equipped with assault grenades dont' suffer the penalty..." That means the model has to be equipped with the grenade to not suffer the penalty. The wording for Defensive Grenades is entirely different... "Models charging units equipped with defensive grenades do not gain bonus Attacks..." This is saying if you charge a unit equipped with defensive grenades. All the FAQ does is clarify that only one model in the unit need be equipped with them. Ah, thank you for that clarity. I was simply asking where it was, I wasn't saying you were wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 I realize Seahawk. I'm asking why he thinks they shouldn't have changed it. because this is another case of a unit which works different then what the rule it has says. It makes rules interpretation harder [offten ending with "god knows what GW was thinking writing this"]. Again I dont care about abadon stats , they could have given him pure stat boosts too do the same , but not make him the one dude in a codex that runs the way he shouldnt be able to . Remember auras in 5th ? since time imemorable auras never targeted , but suddenly GW decided that auras do target ,only if you are a nid of course. then they changed it back again so some of their auras targeted and some didnt . it is sloppy rules writing I hate that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 Except that all the RAW said was "Any model with a Mark cannot join a squad with a different Mark." The debate was whether "a Mark" meant singular or also included plural. As the Mark of Chaos Ascendant is "All Four Marks," all GW said is "Any model that has more than one Mark can join any unit with the same Mark. Any model that only has one Mark cannot join a unit with a different Mark." Since Abaddon is the only model with "more than one Mark," it is clarified that he was always able to do it and that "a" in the original context was the singular form, not the singular and plural. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 realy you realy want to do it after the faq? the rule says a model with a mark different then the one the unit has cant join it and abadon had 3 of those . does matter if you check if he has 1 different [he has that] or more then 1 different[he has that too] , unless the unit had no marks of course. oddly enough the change to NM and turret bales will probably make us see more terminator armored WGs/rune armor/terminator armored HQs for SW , which in the end will bite chaos in our ass on end tables. I wonder if GW is going to make more stuff like this , rewriting already existing dexs . the champ thing could be called a writing error , but not turret or blast masters not realy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 realy you realy want to do it after the faq? the rule says a model with a mark different then the one the unit has cant join it and abadon had 3 of those . does matter if you check if he has 1 different [he has that] or more then 1 different[he has that too] , unless the unit had no marks of course. https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CDsQtwIwAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DwCy8MpT45gk&ei=GDT3UNLbFYPe8ASblYGwCw&usg=AFQjCNF6-pkwEhYpY-ZRdwXvTxcfbUfQKg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Ambroz Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 Ah I see but what do you expect from GW jeske? Yeah the baledrake might seem to make people take more termi or artificer armor but then DA just came out with all this new plasma gear so either way... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jb7090 Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 Youre not even making any sense Jacinda. Maybe calm down and go take a walk lol. ??? Let me make it simple for you then. What was the answer in the FAQ? Looks like you're trying to bend the rule into something it's not, all you're doing is sticking your fingers in your ears and saying "Nuh uh!! Is not!!" I see no proof or examples or logical arguments from you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacinda Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 So glad you brought it up. What is the logical transposition of the FAQ and the Answer given? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slayer le Boucher Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 So to be clear, the Heldrake nows spurts his flames in a 360 degrees arc?!..., oh man my SM opponents allready hated that thing, they are gonna hate me... Someone at our club, pointed out that a 12 radius flamer template is ridiculous, and when i realised that you don't only shoot in a 12" radius, but in a 20" radius!!!( 12 for the torrent rule and 8,5 inches for the template length), but when i'm gonna tell them, that i can do that in a 360 arc... I wonder if GW is going to make more stuff like this , rewriting already existing dexs . the champ thing could be called a writing error , but not turret or blast masters not realy. I hope they sometimes do, then maybe we will have more weapons options for our Land raiders, Twin Hades cannons sponsons and Twin Balflamer turret anyone?... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sception Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 Twin? Strongly doubt it. Single might be fair. Neither will happen, not unless the chaos land raider is getting a new model any time soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 Actually, if GW was smart, they could make the changes, and then try to upsell combinations of the Loyalist Land Raider sprues with the necessary weapons and Chaos Tank Sprues at an actual discounted price and they could actually save some money and make a little profit by simply selling what they already have at a higher rate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sception Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 Only if the pieces fit and worked, and I still don't see them pushing awkward conversions in place of actual re-packaged models, not after the whole chapterhouse thing. No, we'll get it as an option when they have a model available specifically for that option to sell to us, and not before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 Well as far as I know, the Chaos Tank Sprues are just spikes and stuff that can be glued onto the tanks. Sort of like how the Chaos Bastion is an Imperial Bastion with a Chaos Tank Sprue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zhukov Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 So to be clear, the Heldrake nows spurts his flames in a 360 degrees arc?!..., oh man my SM opponents allready hated that thing, they are gonna hate me... Someone at our club, pointed out that a 12 radius flamer template is ridiculous, and when i realised that you don't only shoot in a 12" radius, but in a 20" radius!!!( 12 for the torrent rule and 8,5 inches for the template length), but when i'm gonna tell them, that i can do that in a 360 arc... Yeah and you meassure from the base, the base is pretty big ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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