Hellbrute Loadout

[Brother Ambroz]

^{Also on the point of a dread going nuts without a fist in CC, if he does this with ML/AC combo then its one turn wasted doing nothing but running forward.}

[Iron Father Ferrum]

 

 

Not having a a Rifleman build hurts, yes, but no Veteran skills or

Venerable status and no AV13 don't count as "utility."  Utility is a

measure of how useful it is to the army -- whether it can fill a niche

-- and the last two of your three examples don't apply.

I am sorry but how does av 13 coming out of a drop pod with twin linked melta compared to walking with melta accross the board does not compare . And forcing the re-roll of the damage table is a utility thing , it makes the dread more resilient ergo fewer [or in the case of loyalists non] support units are needed to make the dread stand and do its thing .

 

 

> 

 

So what else can we do with it?  Double-CCW has its advantages over the

Maulerfiend, which in turn has its own advantages: WS4 vs WS3, I4 vs I3,

no save vs 5++, etc, so that's kind of a wash depending on playstyle,

points available, theme, etc.

I sorry but how is the melee dread better then the mauler , when the mauler has a 12" charge range always while the dread has a random charge range ? the number of attacks both have sucks , so there is no actual winer here . resilient wise the mauler is better because of the inv . the mauler being better has nothing to do with style and everything with assault mechanics in 6th ed.

 

 

1. We're operating on different understandings of the term "utility."

 

2. I didn't say the Dread was better, I said they were the same.  For me, it comes down to how they differ in their resilience.  The Mauler has an invulnerable save, but it's also WS3 I3, which means a full squad of MEQs get to go first and hit on 3+ against it and will likely krak grenade it to death in two turns.  The Dread, on the other hand, lacks the save, but gets to get its licks in at the same Initiative as the krak grenades, and those grenades will hit on a 4+ instead of 3+.  The math both ways just about evens out, period.

[zyl-]

 

I routinely take 2-3 Dreadnoughts in my Space Marines (and I never take

Drop Pods, by the way, as I don't own any) and Grey Knights armies, and

they do a great job for me

not getting crazy , possible av 13 , veteran upgrades, rifleman set up , rifleman set up that is str8 and ignored most of the rules of 5th ed . there are small difference.

 

 

 

> 

 

Run it up the field with rhinos. Everyone knows the contents of the

rhinos are far more dangerous.. and they are easier to glance out

anyhow.

How would YOU do it? Irrelivant. You take neither brutes nor rhinos.

I want to understand the tactic ,the dreads are bad and if someone wants a melee one for few points the mauler gives an inv , no crazy and a 12"charge range . both are horrible in melee[low attacks , no way to be av13] . The rhino example doesnt explain anything , because dreads wont be able to keep with them [or the rhino will have to slow down , but then it makes no sense to take them , because 3 rhinos is as much as an extra dreads and you can walk with the same speed as a dread].

 

 

 

Other than their "weak" Armour Value of 12, is there something else that makes everyone hate on the Helbrute so much?

like in all editions or just this ? let me lists a few , weapon load outs , crazy , lack of utility [nor rifle man, no veteran, no av13] , if someone want to take a plasma gun in elite section he can takr 5 nm with a blast master and it will be more durable , horrible in melee [loyalist on the other have one dread which is ok for melee and one which isnt very bad. that is not counting lucius pods].

 

I doubt I could explaint it in a way that you would understand, Jeske.

 

1 you don't understand that the game can be played for fun

2 i'm not even sure i understand what you mean in your riff about how dreads and rhinos don't make sense

3 maulerfiend is heavy, and brutes see their best use in an armor saturation list where heavy is taken by tanks

4 in said armor list, terminators and oblits underpreform in general because they are vulnerable to small arms fire, which the brute is not

 

To try and actually answer your question, the strategy is to make the brutes take fire and die, which doesn't make us sad at all because they aren't really amazing. What is good about this is that it requires the dedication of anti tank weapons to wreck a brute, leaving the true power of your army- the tanks- free to shoot. The alternative is that they actually get into mele range by around turn 3 when they get to support multi charges, run into squishy squads, or bust any tanks possibly left on the board. This is less effective against meq.. see below.

 

There's also the other way to deploy them, which is in the back of the field to catch drop pods. In this instance, you get to mele by turn 2 at the latest. Blood angels love to drop pods in behind those scary tanks and use meltaguns in the rear armor. Brutes help to clean up those annoying little squads nicely, since  they are already right in range.

[chillin]

There's also the other way to deploy them, which is in the back of the field to catch drop pods. In this instance, you get to mele by turn 2 at the latest. Blood angels love to drop pods in behind those scary tanks and use meltaguns in the rear armor. Brutes help to clean up those annoying little squads nicely, since  they are already right in range.

hmmmmm, hadnt thought of that. Maybe I give it a try sometime. I can see said squad just melta'ing dread 1st tho, then melting the tank next turn. I dont think  giving a tank 1 more shot is worth the price of a dread.

[zyl-]

So you'd rather lose your back lines first and keep the brute alive? In my experience, a player will shoot the tank first because it's usually far more destructive. A vindicator, fiend, or defiler can probably flatten the squad, and those are the kinds of tanks an armor list looks to field. Maybe a predator since tri las is so cheap. Never the less, loss of a brute turn 1 or 2 doesn't usually put a hole in the army as much as loss of a defiler.

 

As an edit, brute loss can be more of a problem against armies that are basically non meq. If you are able to get into a mele with a squad that is not fearless, sweeping advances are great. Again, this is assuming armor heavy armies where your primary goal is to shoot enemies, and assault units will be lacking on your part.

[totgeboren]

Well, the Helbrute could be viewed from another perspective. No matter how you equip your Helbrute, will will get some utility and some drawback, so if you like the model, use it with whatever loadout you think looks best (as long as it is not all-cc or all-shooty).

It will never be a 'good' choice (in that it is the best tool for whatever job you give it), so why get so hung up on the specifics? A Pred will always be a better shooty platform than the Helbrute for similar points, the Maulerfield will be a better close-combat vehicle. Oblits will be better plasma cannon platforms and so on.

One thing it has going for it is that it is small, so fairly easy to get cover saves (meaning that 5++ save is not as important), and it is also our only vehicle in the Elite section, meaning it can be used for armour saturation. Sort of like a 'tactical vehicle', a multi-tool there to deal with whatever comes its way.

 

The niche open for the Helbrute in my mind is that it deal with can most things, and unlike the Defiler it doesn't have to pay through the nose for it.

[chillin]

So you'd rather lose your back lines first and keep the brute alive?

Didnt say that at all. Not even sure where you got that from what I wrote ?? I said I could see the opponent melting the dread 1st (bc he's the only hth threat and the only thing that can tie up the squad in hth (assuming everything esle back there is tanks like YOU said)),  then melting the tank 2nd . What the opponent does often has nothing to do with what I would "rather" he do. Not sure where your coming from with that ?

[zyl-]

 I dont think  giving a tank 1 more shot is worth the price of a dread.

 

This is where I'm getting the idea from. I'm not saying there aren't other options out there, but given the content of the post you quoted, this is a valid conclusion.