Deep Strike and Psychic Powers

[Balthamal]

Greetings brothers. I find myself in need of some wisdom.

 

When deploying a librarian by deepstrike, is he then permitted to employ psychic powers that are rolled for at the beginning of the movement phase? Had a disagreement crop up that the deep strike has already counted as movement so the time to use them has already gone.

 

Thanks

[Xenith]

No. Once he has been deployed, it is no longer the beginning of the movement phase.

 

When things are said to happen at the same time, the player whose turn it is can choose which occurs first.

 

In this case, you can:

 

A ) Use powers off board (to no effect), then deepstrike

B ) Deepstrike, then be unable to use the powers.

[dswanick]

I believe that is the generally accepted standard - yes. However, certain models have had their "start of turn" powers FAQd to be useable after deploying from Reserves via Deep Strike (C:SW Logan Grimnar's The High King special rule, for example).

[*Furyou Miko]

However, the new FAQ has explicitly stated that Deep Striking and the use of start-of-the-movement-phase psychic powers happen simultaneously, and the player decides what order to do them in. So you can in fact Deep Strike the librarian, use his powers, then Deep Strike something else if you want.

[Xenith]

Yea, I was just about to make that correction, apparently you can do it now.

[DarkGuard]

Please use the Official Rules forum for rules questions, and when doing so please check all the FAQs as well, there's been a few new ones. :)

[Gentlemanloser]

Miko, that's not quite right.

 

The Reserve *roll* happens simultaniously to using a Psychic Power, at the start of the movement Phase.

 

But any deployment that happens *after* sucessful reserve rolls, is just that. After. ;)

 

you can't roll for resrves a Libby in TDA deploy by Deep Strike, then get him to cast a 'start of the movement phase' Psychic Power.

 

Sadly.

[Seahawk]

Page 67. No you cannot cast powers.

 

"On a turn that a psyker arrives from reserve he cannot attempt to manifest any psychic powers that must be manifested at the start of the Movement phase."

[nurglez]

Latest FAQ, out today.

 

 

Q: Blessings are manifested ‘at the start of the Psyker’s Movement

phase’ – does this mean they happen simultaneously with Reserves

rolls, Outflanking rolls etc and if so which is resolved first? (p68)

A: They do occur simultaneously – as such, the player whose

turn it is decides in what order these things occur as per

page 9 of the Warhammer 40,000 rulebook

 

However, page 68 does override that, I guess.

[Disruptor_fe404]

I must be blind or something, because I can't find the part of the FAQ that Miko is referring to.

 

EDIT: Never mind, like I said, blind.

[Gentlemanloser]

"Reserves rolls"

 

not units deploying form reserves. ;)

 

So, if you had a Libby on board, and another unit that arrives by DS, the Libby still couldn't use any 'start of the movement phase' powers on them.

 

But, you could (for example) have a GKGM already on the board use Psychic Communion prior to you making your Reserve rolls.

 

Which everyone did anyway. ;)

[DarkGuard]

But surely FAQ overrides the BGB, therefore you can cast Blessings when you arrive by reserve. But not Maledictions.

[Disruptor_fe404]

Actually, the FAQ says nothing about a Psyker arriving from Reserve being allowed to use a power, just that the order is decided by the player.

 

So:

 

Deep Striking Librarian: no Blessings, Maledictions, whatever else.

 

Librarian on board: Cast either before or after Reserves arrive, your choice. If after, you can cast on something arriving from Reserve.

[Gentlemanloser]

"If after, you can cast on something arriving from Reserve"

 

You can't.

 

Because deploying from reserves is after reserve rolls.

 

It's the rolls that are simultanious with casting powers, not deployment.

[pyroknight]

If you came in from reserve you can only cast shooting powers as per Pg 67.

 

If your libby is on table, he can cast a power that modifies reserves immediately before reserve roles as per FAQ.

 

If you Libby is on table, he can't cast a blessing on a unit arriving from reserves. The unit is not on table at the time he needs to cast the power. Its Psychic powers, then reserve rolls, then deployment.

[Disruptor_fe404]

Have you read the quoted part of the FAQ?

 

Latest FAQ, out today.

 

 

Q: Blessings are manifested ‘at the start of the Psyker’s Movement

phase’ – does this mean they happen simultaneously with Reserves

rolls, Outflanking rolls etc and if so which is resolved first? (p68)

A: They do occur simultaneously – as such, the player whose

turn it is decides in what order these things occur as per

page 9 of the Warhammer 40,000 rulebook

 

 

EDIT: Emphasis mine.

[Dam13n]

@Distruptor

 

You quoted the wrong part. The key part is the reserve rolls are done at the same time as blessings etc. Deploying of reserves is done during the "mandatory moves" part of the movement phase which happens after all the reserve rolls have been made and you've cast all your blessings/maledictions.

 

so a psyker that arrives from reserve cannot cast said powers because he isn't on the table at the time he would have been allowed to cast them.

 

Laterz...

[Venemox]

On page 36, under Deep Strike, it specifies to 'Roll for the arrival of all deep striking units as specified in the rules for reserves and then deploy them...' The 'and then' portion of that statement seems to indicate that there is a time difference between rolling and arriving. Additionally, page 124 describes (in a very convoluted manner) the order of rolling, arriving and moving for reserves and the remainder of your army. Essentially, it boils down to 1) Roll for all reserved units, 2) Deploy all reserved units, 3) Move everyone else. Ergo, arriving from Reserves, must occur after the start of the Movement Phase. My interpretation was that a psychic power manifested at the beginning of the Movement Phase could be used before rolling for Reserves OR after, controlling players choice. However, it cannot happen after arriving from reserves, as that is no longer the start of the Movement phase.

 

At the very least, page 67 specifically prohibits the oncoming Psyker from manifesting powers at the start of the Movement phase.

[Disruptor_fe404]

@Distruptor

 

You quoted the wrong part. The key part is the reserve rolls are done at the same time as blessings etc. Deploying of reserves is done during the "mandatory moves" part of the movement phase which happens after all the reserve rolls have been made and you've cast all your blessings/maledictions.

 

 

As the emphasised part says, the reserve rolls can happen before your psychic power rolls if you choose them to be. But your second point here concerning the timing of the mandatory moves is completely valid, and as such I now agree that someone on the board cannot cast a blessing on a unit that just arrived from Reserve.

 

 

so a psyker that arrives from reserve cannot cast said powers because he isn't on the table at the time he would have been allowed to cast them.

 

Laterz...

 

This was never in contention, as pg67 (68?) of the Rulebook says he can't. I was pointing out that there is no contradiction between the FAQ and the Rulebook.

[Tamwulf]

That FAQ is more about a Libby that is ALREADY ON THE TABLE, having a power that could modify a Reserve roll.

 

A Libby in reserve is still under the restriction of Pg. 67- "On a turn that a psyker arrives from reserve (see pg 124) he cannot attempt to manifest any psychic powers that must be manifested at the start of the movement phase."

 

Look up the types of Psychic Powers:

 

Blessing: Used at the start of the movement phase

Conjuration: Used at the start of the movement phase

Malediction: Used at the start of the movement phase

Witchfire: Used at the start of the shooting phase

 

What the FAQ is stating is that you have a Psyker already on the table with a power that can only be used at the start of the movement phase. Well, now you can choose to use that power, THEN roll for reserves, OR you can roll for reserves, THEN manifest the psychic power.

 

A librarian in reserve can't manifest any powers in the movement phase. Doesn't matter if you roll for reserves first or not.

[Azatoth]

But surely FAQ overrides the BGB, therefore you can cast Blessings when you arrive by reserve. But not Maledictions.

 

No because it says reserve roll, when you do the reserve roll the psyker is still off table.

[DarkGuard]

Ah, I misunderstood that. To be honest, it is a little vague.

 

So that relates more to using Grand Strategy or something similar?

[Gentlemanloser]

Psychic communion. ;)

[DarkGuard]

You can tell I don't play Grey Knights!! :P