Max_Gore Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 Greetings fiends, First off, congrats on your new Codex. It looks like a great update, or at least it seems to have made many Chaos players jealous, which should bring you some satisfaction. Speaking of Chaos... I'm a filthy Chaos and Xenos player, but the DV box has me considering starting a DA army... mainly because they would be the cheapest Loyalist army since the 90s. The Lion is one of the few loyalist Primarch's I like (along with Sanguinus and Corax), and I'm very jealous of their accurate deepstriking terminators. I don't have the codex yet, so my main question is: "How optimal are the DV squad setups?" If I played I'd probably use Azrael or Beliel. Either list would have at least 1 large unit of terminators Deepstriking. Deepstriking terminators have twinlinked the turn they land, right? So in that case, a 10 man squad with stormbolters and 2 assault cannons would be very good, right? Better than SS+TH? If I have to buy bits, the DV start losing their appeal to me. I may eventually get some Knights or TH+SS termies, but for starting I would just have DV models. Also, Black Knights cannot be troops, correct? I have lots of plasma pistols around, so I could convert them pretty easily. I'd just have to figure out the hammers. Thanks for any answers and insight. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/269748-viability-of-the-dv-models/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
facmanpob Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 The DV terminators are good - nice models and very well set up for use with the Codex. The bikes are fine for use as they are as a normal bike squad (especially is you get 3 more from ebay so you can run 2 plasmaguns). Alternatively, converting them to Black Knights is a good option of you've got spare plasma for the bikes. The DV tacticals are OK, although the Sergeant has a plasma pistol which isn't that great......chop off his hand! ;) The Librarian is fine - bog standard - and the Company Master is fine to use as he is. All in all, they are a pretty good bunch of models :) Oh, and yes, Black Knights are not troops, they are always Fast Attack. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/269748-viability-of-the-dv-models/#findComment-3285715 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azoriel Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 I don't necessarily consider the DV set up to be optimal, though it does work impressively as a starter army. If you use Balthazar to count as Azrael, then you have a starter set with three scoring troop selections - not bad at all, IMO! Things I'd do differently with the existing models (assuming minimal changes): The tactical sergeant with plasma pistol and chainsword isn't terribly impressive - conversely, if you chop off his chainsword hand and give him a bolt pistol to pair with his plasma pistol, then he can take advantage of using two pistols at once... The three-man Ravenwing squad could potentially use a 2nd special weapon - it would be kinda like the 3-man 2-meltagun bike squads that were run under the previous codex. Converting them to Black Knights means you get a stronger unit, but at the cost of them possibly being scoring (can't take them as troops). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/269748-viability-of-the-dv-models/#findComment-3285728 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gratan Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 I too started Dark Angels with the DV set. They have become the core of my army. Of course, I have three full sets as well as more I purchased individually. In total I have: 6 Tactical Squads 4 Terminator Squads 3 6 man Bike Squads Of course, you do not have to go all hog wild like I did... I might have over bought a little... :) 2 DV sets would be enough to field about 1500 without really adding a lot more. As stated, the Company Master makes a passable Azreal stand-in and the Librarian could be used for Zeke as well. Actually, I am working on just such a list, I'll post it to the Army Lists section Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/269748-viability-of-the-dv-models/#findComment-3285808 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max_Gore Posted January 16, 2013 Author Share Posted January 16, 2013 Thanks for the input guys. Yeah I was mainly worried about the terminator set up, because the rest are cheaper conversions... SS+Hammers are pricey. However, with the twinlinked shots when deep striking, I think the stormbolters will be pretty damn effective and assault cannons are probably the best heavy weapon for them anyway. I may end up doing this, I could get a 1500 point DA army for about the same price as a 10 man chaos bike unit. That's crazy. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/269748-viability-of-the-dv-models/#findComment-3285827 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Djulius Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 Here's what I calculated on the old codex in Army Builder from 2DV sets ... exactly 1500 points: Dark Angels Double Vengeance Total Roster Cost: 1500 First Company (Deathwing) (12#, 785 pts) . . 1 Plutarch: Librarian, 140 pts = (base cost 120 + Melta Bombs 5 + Plasma Pistol 15) . . 1 Leonidas: Co. Master, 145 pts = (base cost 100 + Melta Bombs 5 + Plasma Pistol 15 + Power Sword 15 + Combi-Plasmagun 10) . . 4 Squad Barachiel, 207 pts = 4 * 43 (base cost 43) + Chainfist x1 5 + Assault Cannon 30 . . . . 1 Sgt Barachiel, 43 pts . . 4 Squad Uriel, 207 pts = 4 * 43 (base cost 43) + Chainfist x1 5 + Assault Cannon 30 . . . . 1 Sgt Uriel, 43 pts Second Company (Ravenwing) (6#, 285 pts) . . 1 Attack Squadron Arion, 0 pts . . . . 5 Bike Squad, 210 pts = 5 * 36 (base cost 36) + Plasma gun x2 30 . . . . . . 1 Sgt. Arion, 75 pts = (base cost 40 + Melta Bombs 5 + Power Sword 15 + Plasma Pistol 15) Third Company (20#, 430 pts) . . 9 Squad Raphael, 174 pts = 9 * 16 (base cost 16) + Plasma gun 15 + Plasma Cannon 15 . . . . 1 Sgt. Raphael, 38 pts = (base cost 18 + Melta Bombs 5) + Plasma Pistol 15 . . 9 Squad Chamuel, 174 pts = 9 * 16 (base cost 16) + Plasma gun 15 + Plasma Cannon 15 . . . . 1 Sgt. Chamuel, 38 pts = (base cost 18 + Melta Bombs 5) + Plasma Pistol 15 Validation Report: c-1. File Version: 1.11 For Bug Reports/www.ab40k.org; b-1. Roster Options: Named or Special Characters; a-1. Scenario: Normal Mission; b-2. Levels of Alliance: Battle Brothers Roster satisfies all enforced validation rules Composition Report: HQ: 2 (1 - 2) Elite: 2 (0 - 3) Troops: 2 (2 - 6) Fast: 1 (0 - 3) Heavy: 0 (0 - 3) Fort: 0 (0 - 1) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/269748-viability-of-the-dv-models/#findComment-3285977 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Djulius Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 OK - You'll note I gave the Lib a Plasma pistol and have adapted some of the models Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/269748-viability-of-the-dv-models/#findComment-3286011 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avon Rekaes Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 The main one I see is turning the second Ravenwing Sgt. Arion into just another biker. Seems like the most involved conversion. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/269748-viability-of-the-dv-models/#findComment-3286120 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Blaire Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 If you don't mind a robed body for a simple biker, you could probably kit bash one from Sgt Aerion with one of the robed torsos from either the old Ravenwing bike squadron/battleforce kit or the new Command Squad kit and just cut the two banner poles off and either place one back on the bike or use one of the new ones from the Command Squad kit. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/269748-viability-of-the-dv-models/#findComment-3286129 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Djulius Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 Setting him up as a 'corporal'; reduced his rear wing to single and chopped the hand, so has cloak. Mentioned Lib as he was explicit upgrade from basic box. With new Codex and models coming am changing a few more models: Am now converting one of the Termie Auto-cannons to a Plasma Cannon (thanks to DW Elite sprue). Converting into 10 man Termie squad taken by Belial as troop, so need to change second power-sword - although may be able to make new model from various bitz, including DA upgrade Sprue. Oh yes, and RW Sergeant has just picked up a Power Lance borrowed from a Grey Knight sprue strapped to his bike! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/269748-viability-of-the-dv-models/#findComment-3286142 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avon Rekaes Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 I converted the DV Termies into my Command Squad back in November. They're pretty easy to mod if you have a Razor Saw. I just sliced their entire left arms off at the shoulder, and used other Termie arm bits entirely. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/269748-viability-of-the-dv-models/#findComment-3286168 Share on other sites More sharing options...
elphilo Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 I converted the DV Termies into my Command Squad back in November. They're pretty easy to mod if you have a Razor Saw. I just sliced their entire left arms off at the shoulder, and used other Termie arm bits entirely. And now it seems so simple! I just green stuffed a Scribor Sheild over the Power Fist arm. Now I feel like an amateur Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/269748-viability-of-the-dv-models/#findComment-3286197 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avon Rekaes Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 Nonsense! I'm sure it looked awesome! My favorite conversion from that squad, for how seemless it looked afterward, was changing the Assault Cannon + Power Fist Termie into a Pair of Lightning Claws Termie. Instead of slicing off the entire arm at the shoulder, since his pose makes it more difficult than the other Termies, I slided the fingers and a bit of the hand off his power fist, down to where the soft-armor palm section would show. Then I took a spare lightning claw hand and cut off the end of it, where the raised mechanical section starts on the back of the hand. I glued that to the "stump" of the power fist I created. The seem on the back of the hand is disguised by the lightning claw mechanical bits rising right up from the glove, and a little greenstuff resculpted the soft-armor palm on the other side. If the gallery was still working, I could show you the pic, but, no dice there. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/269748-viability-of-the-dv-models/#findComment-3286249 Share on other sites More sharing options...
elphilo Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 Nonsense! I'm sure it looked awesome! My favorite conversion from that squad, for how seemless it looked afterward, was changing the Assault Cannon + Power Fist Termie into a Pair of Lightning Claws Termie. Instead of slicing off the entire arm at the shoulder, since his pose makes it more difficult than the other Termies, I slided the fingers and a bit of the hand off his power fist, down to where the soft-armor palm section would show. Then I took a spare lightning claw hand and cut off the end of it, where the raised mechanical section starts on the back of the hand. I glued that to the "stump" of the power fist I created. The seem on the back of the hand is disguised by the lightning claw mechanical bits rising right up from the glove, and a little greenstuff resculpted the soft-armor palm on the other side. If the gallery was still working, I could show you the pic, but, no dice there. I'm going to have to remember this since I love the Assault Cannoner's Stance. I loved it so much I used what you told me about decals and made a standard bearer, luckily I save my stuff on imgur :P http://i.imgur.com/thbEWl.jpg My last few PTR Vows have been some little conversions of the DV Terminators :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/269748-viability-of-the-dv-models/#findComment-3286327 Share on other sites More sharing options...
facmanpob Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 @Djulius - Just so you are aware, you aren't supposed to post all of the points costs for individual wargear items on forums - GW gets cross and melts down your little plastic men! :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/269748-viability-of-the-dv-models/#findComment-3286853 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avon Rekaes Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 ephilio, that looks awesome! I'd be proud to put my standard bearer beside yours. Glad my secret decal technique is being used. :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/269748-viability-of-the-dv-models/#findComment-3287082 Share on other sites More sharing options...
elphilo Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 ephilio, that looks awesome! I'd be proud to put my standard bearer beside yours. Glad my secret decal technique is being used. Thanks, I think that's the little beauty that got me best painted in my gaming club's 20ish person tournament last weekend :D Also your secret is safe, except for the one dude I told. But he couldn't handle the awesomeness and was mind-scrubbed and is now the gaming club's servator :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/269748-viability-of-the-dv-models/#findComment-3287111 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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