Plastic Rat Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 Not complaining, just making observations: Give Scouts access to an Auspex. I don't see this piece of wargear seeing much table top time. It's a shame as it's a cool looking bit and could have added more tactics as well as given players more reason to take scouts. It also fits with the role of scouts. As it is the only ones who can take this are HQ characters and Techmarines and there are way better options on the list for them. It's also fluffy, as traditionally it's the scouts' job to flush enemies out of cover and locate stuff. Give Assault Squad sargeants access to combat shields It's not a game breaker. It makes sense and they could do it last codex. It fits with their close combat nature. Seriously, it's a big hole and it makes no sense to limit this. Editing and proofreading Seriously guys, it's a premium item. If you're going to do a book in hard cover and charge for it do some quality control. Further thoughts? Edit: Because I didn't read things like I should have. Thanks Seahawk, reporting to cell 42 for penance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RayJ Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 QC is the only problem I have with the new book. Units could have tweaks, but they don't really make the book "better". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawk Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 Company Champion already is a character? :huh: Agree on the auspex issue. Totally disappointed to not see it where it belongs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plastic Rat Posted January 16, 2013 Author Share Posted January 16, 2013 Company Champion already is a character? My bad, thanks for that. Makes me feel better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xeraxen Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 Company Champion already is a character? Yes, but a very short-lived one, based on the current unwieldy rule of the Blade of Caliban. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chronotonic Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 auspex on the scouts would be great with my sniper rifle set up haha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notmattlythgoe Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 Throw the Auspex on a Libby. Combined with his diviniation power and a bolter banner should be pretty powerful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arioch Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 Combatshields are useless.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xeraxen Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 Combatshields are useless.... Weren't they 5++ or 4++ a couple of edition back? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Landrain Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 One or Two Things from each squad, I would wish for. All Veteran Sgts ... Special Issue Wargear (limit 1) Tactical Squads ... Close Combat Blade and a Heavy Flamer Assault Squads ... Plasma Guns, and Bolters Devastator Squads ... Auto Cannons Scout Squads ... Hellfire HB round Company Veteran Squads ... Remove the (3) limit (again) and Jump Packs Ravenwing Command Squads ... 6 man limit Black Knights ... Power weapons Ravenwing ... Attack Bike Squads Deathwing Command Squads ... Combi-Weapons and Power Weapons Deathwing Knights ... I win Button :) These are perfect as is, the limited weapon option is meh, but Maces are cool. Deathwing ... Combi-Weapons and Power Weapons Predator ... Plasma Main and Sponsons Razorback ... Plasma Cannon Turret Whirlwind ... Flakk Missiles Vindicator ... :) Land Speeder Squadrons ... Plasma Cannons Flyers ... Strength 7-8 weapons?? :cuss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Djulius Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 The only bug rumour that didn't make it that would have been interesting would be a 'Plasma specialist' or similar, lowering the risk of 'Gets Hot' through a re-roll or army specific gets hot table... ... but I guess we got enough cheese! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arioch Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 Combatshields are useless.... Weren't they 5++ or 4++ a couple of edition back? 6++ now- useless... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Blaire Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 Veterans no longer have a 3 weapon exchange limit. See newest FAQ at GW. No jump packs though. Not sure they need them, they aren't Vanguard Veterans. They aren't 1st Company. We don't need them for parity, etc, we have an entire 1st Company of Terminators. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kastor Krieg Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 Company Commander access to a darned BIKE! Termie Libby / Chappy not losing access to Ranged weapons! What's UP with that!? oO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawk Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 1. Tactical Squads ... Close Combat Blade and a Heavy Flamer 2. Assault Squads ... Plasma Guns, and Bolters 3. Devastator Squads ... Auto Cannons 4. Black Knights ... Power weapons 5. Deathwing Command Squads ... Combi-Weapons and Power Weapons 6. Deathwing ... Combi-Weapons and Power Weapons 7. Predator ... Plasma Main and Sponsons 8. Razorback ... Plasma Cannon Turret 9. Land Speeder Squadrons ... Plasma Cannons 1. Not supported by the fluff. Tacticals have never had heavy flamers, and the 2nd close combat weapon is the province of SW and Chaos. 2. If you want a mobile tactical squad, give a tactical squad a rhino. Also, not really supported by the fluff. 3. Not supported by the fluff, or play Chaos instead. 4. See the FAQ, they get them. 5. Not supported by the fluff, or play Chaos instead. 6. Not supported by the fluff, or play Chaos instead. 7. Forgeworld unit. 8. Not supported by the fluff, but I can see the case for it. 9. Not supported by the fluff, but I can see the case for it. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dael Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 Agree on Auspexes for Scouts, Infravisors would have been cool too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L30n1d4s Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 I think the new DA codex is outstanding: fluffy, well-balanced, synergistic, interesting, innovative, but not game breaking. We will see as people get a chance to play-test it over the next couple of months, but overall I think it is just about exactly what we should hope for in future codexes. Now, even with very good books like C: DA, there are areas for improvement. Having studied the new Codex for a bit now, if I could make a few changes, I would. Without changing points costs, if I could modify a single selection from each of the 6 FOC groups (Special Characters/Normal HQs/Elites/Troops/Fast Attack/Heavy Support), below is what my "wishlist" would be: SPECIAL CHARACTERS -Azmodai *Blades of Reason -- S: User, AP:- (Cause ID, Lowers Ld of non-allied enemy units within 12" of Asmodai by -2) *Add "Uncompromising Zeal" Special Rule -- Gives Asmodai and all C:DA units within 6" Relentless USR Justification: Currently, I think he is overcosted for what he does compared with a normal Interrogator-Chaplain. Basically, all you get for +30 pts is Fear and Blades of Reason, neither of which are very impressive. I thought making him a better "support character" would make him more useable; thus, I made the Blades of Reason reduce enemy Leadership (synergizes well with the rest of the army) and I added a special rule to allow him to buff multiple squads, not just his own, with Relentless USR (almost like he himself is a 4th Sacred Standard). Since Deathwing/Ravenwing already have Relentless, this would only really apply to Greenwing troops, but I could see it working very well, especially if combined with the Standard of Devastation and a couple of Tactical Squads. HQ -DA Command Squad/Ravenwing Command Squad (OK, that's two units, so sue me ;).... at least it is the same upgrade for both of them I am talking about) *Blade of Caliban -- S:+1 User AP:3 Justification: Many people have pointed this out, but the Blade of Calibam having "Unwieldy" just seems like such a poor choice, especially on a character who could be in a challenge. Simply dropping "Unwieldy" from the weapon would make quite a difference and would strengthen the champion options in Dark Angel Command Squads and Ravenwing Command Squads measurably, but not excessively. ELITES -Company Veteran Squad *All Veterans have BP, CCW, and Bolter *Can replace one Bolter with a Flamer/Meltagun/Plasmagun for every three models in the squad *Can upgrade Veteran Sergeant into a Brother-Interrogator for +50 pts WS5 BS4 S4 T4 W1 I4 A2 Ld9 Sv 3+ Wargear: -Power Armor -Crozius Arcanum -2 x Bolt Pistol (can upgrade to 2 x Plasma Pistol for +25 pts) -Frag/Krak Grenades Special Rules: -Zealot -Special Mission - The Company Veteran Squad is a scoring unit as long as the Brother Interrogator is alive Justification: I am glad C:DA did not make Veterans a generic copy of Sternguard/Vanguard, especially since DA already have the very unique DW/RW options. However, I still feel like Veterans are lacking a little something to make them worth their points. By giving them all Bolter/BP/CCW, I think it makes them into the "elite-generalists" (or "uber-Grey Hunters" ;) ) they are supposed to be. By allowing them to take a Special Weapon for every 3 models, it gives them just a little more flexibility to deal with enemy units (for crying out loud, even IG Vets can get 3 SWs in a squad of 10!). Finally, one of the rumors that I thought was really cool was about the whole "dual-pistol wielding Brother-Interrogator" or "Chaplain-in-training" as an Elites options. Since it did not actually pan out in the book, I thought, why not add it is an upgrade to the Veteran Sergeant in a Company Vet squad? Fluff-wise, the Brother-Interrogator could be assigned a Veteran Squad as an "escort" to help him complete a special mission in the hunt for the Fallen. Not only would it be cool, but I think it would give the Vet Squad just a little more "oompfff" to set it apart and give it a unique role (i.e. Fearless/Hatred from Zealot USR and be Scoring from "Special Mission" rule). Finally, I just would love to see that model of a Brother Interrogator leading a squad of Vets, dual-wielding Plasma Pistols with a Power Maul strapped to his back! ;) TROOPS -Scout Squad *For every 5 models in squad, one Scout can replace his Bolter with a Heavy Bolter for +5pts, a Missile Launcher for +15pts, an Astartes Grenade Launcher for +10 pts (like Ravenwing Grenade Launcher, but can only shoot Krak or Frag Grenades), or a Flamer for +5 pts *Scout Sergeant/Veteran Scout Sergeant come with a Teleporter Homer *A Veteran Scout Sergeant can upgrade Teleporter Homer to a Locator Beacon for +10pts and/or an Auspex for +10 pts Justification: I think the new book actually did a pretty decent job with the Troops section, both Tacticals and Scouts, but right now DA Scouts just seem a little bland and like "budget" Tactical squads, so I was thinking they could benefit from a few improvements. First off, even though Ravenwing have Teleporter Homers, Scouts still should be able to bring in units accurately (they are "scouts" after all), so I think it is reasonable to give their Sgt/Vet Sgt a Teleporter Homer, with the option to upgrade to a Locator Beacon for the Vet Sergeant. The Auspex upgrade is in there simply to allow Scouts to be more of a "force-multiplier" unit. As for the extra weapons, adding Flamers and Astartes GLs gives them the ability to move and shoot (which seems like a very Scout-like thing to do) and allowing them to take one HB/ML/Flamer/Astartes GL per 5 models gives the ability to customize them to a role a bit (i.e. need long range fire support...take 2 HBs or 2 MLs with a sniper squad; need close range burnination before your CCW/BP Scouts charge in... take 2 Flamers; need a mobile fire base... take 2 Astartes GLs with your Bolter Scouts, etc.) FAST ATTACK -Nephilim Fighter *Blacksword Missiles -- S:7, AP:4, Range 36", Heavy 1, One Use Only (Have "Seeker" special rule, which give Blacksword Missiles the "Ignore Cover" USR against all Flyers/Skimmers) Justification: As many have pointed out, the Nephilim is not a dominant air superiority fighter, as GW billed it to be (or its points cost might have you think ;) ). So, I simply bumped up the Blacksword Missiles up to S7 and gave them a rule to allow them to hunt Flyers/Skimmers a bit better (i.e. no Jink/Evasive Maneuver saves). I think it is fluffy, fits within the points cost, and would be effective on the tabletop, making the Nephilim a very decent Flyer/Skimmer hunter. HEAVY SUPPORT -Land Speeder Vengeance *Plasma Storm Battery -- Can shoot in one of two modes: 1) Repeater Mode -- S:7 AP:2 Heavy 6, Twin-Linked, 24" Range 2) Blast Mode --S:7 AP:2 Heavy 1, Large Blast, Twin-Linked, 36" Range Justification: Aw, the one everybody loves to hate. Yes, in the codex the LS Vengeance is definitely overcosted for what it does, especially if you compare it with a Vindicator or even a squad of 3 Black Knights with Plasma Talons. Keeping the points cost the same, my solution is to simply increase the power of the Plasma Storm Battery to something that would justify taking it... i.e. 36" range/Twin-Linked for the Large Blast mode and about double the number of shots it shoots/Twin-linking for the normal plasma mode. I think changing the Plasma Storm Battery to this profile would make it competitive in gaming terms, but not overpowered (still costs quite a few points and is mounted on an AV10, two Hull Point skimmer, remember). Basically, it would be the "glass cannon" that I think it was supposed to be, but actually worth its points and would be able to fit in effectively to DA task force. Outside of these ideas for improvement, I generally think the other FOC selections are really good, being generally reasonable points-wise, useable on the table-top, and unique enough to justify taking in the right army list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Landrain Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 3. Devastator Squads ... Auto Cannons 3. Not supported by the fluff, or play Chaos instead. Funny... My First Legion Devastators get them.... And I have a few RT Metal Marines with them :) Was a list of what you would have liked to seen more... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elphilo Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 3. Devastator Squads ... Auto Cannons 3. Not supported by the fluff, or play Chaos instead. Funny... My First Legion Devastators get them.... And I have a few RT Metal Marines with them Was a list of what you would have liked to seen more... Because fluff wise the Assault Cannon replaced it. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see some autocannon love in my Space Marines. But I wouldn't want to give up my assault cannon. You can pry that from my cold dead hand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drunkspleen Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 I like your Nephilim missile Idea, I actually suggested something similar recently, although my idea was that they would get twin-linked against vehicles that moved in the previous turn to represent locking onto heat signatures, it means most normal stuff can protect itself from the rule by holding position, but a Flyer either can't hide from it, or has to go hover mode and not even be able to claim a Jink save, thus exposing it to the rest of your force. I also think the Heavy Bolters don't play into it's supposed role at all and would like to see them become a twin-linked Assault Cannon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimdarkness Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 Editing and proofreading Seriously guys, it's a premium item. If you're going to do a book in hard cover and charge for it do some quality control. We the fans have been asking this for years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndigoJack Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 Black Knights ... Power weapons You mean S5 rending isn't enough? They get 2 base attacks, and you can exchange a plasma talon for a grenade launcher that can reduce your targets toughness or can WS and initiative by 1. Take a full squad of 6 and you can get both! Effectively S6 (against non-vehicles) hammers that have rending and go first against most things? sounds great to me! If you really want that power weapon though, the huntmaster can switch his hammer out for a sword or maul. These guys are already ridiculous. IMO, they don't need power weapons too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndigoJack Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 Personally, there's nothing seriously wrong with your flyers, except that both are about 20pts too high. Comparing them to equivocal 6th ed flyers (including 6th ready flyers such as the stormraven) we're definitely losing out. We have barely more firepower than a nightscythe, and clock in at a whopping 70pts more. We're 10pts more than a heldrake, and that thing has a 5+ invul, AV12, and the It WIll Not Die USR. This is all before taking into account how ridiculous the baleflamer is. I understand this might be GW trying to balance fliers, but you need to raise them across the board, not just new codexes coming out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harleqvin Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 Black Knights ... Power weapons You mean S5 rending isn't enough? They get 2 base attacks, and you can exchange a plasma talon for a grenade launcher that can reduce your targets toughness or can WS and initiative by 1. Take a full squad of 6 and you can get both! Effectively S6 (against non-vehicles) hammers that have rending and go first against most things? sounds great to me! If you really want that power weapon though, the huntmaster can switch his hammer out for a sword or maul. These guys are already ridiculous. IMO, they don't need power weapons too. Thought you could take likie 9 or 10 Black Knights in one squad? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadDoc Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 You are correct Harleqvin, a full size Black Knights squad is 10 models. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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