Vindicare Assassin--Worth It Now?

[AnImA8]

So the post-FAQ Vindicare can now basically ignore Look Out Sir! by choosing what model the wound gets allocated to. This is a huge buff from it's previous incarnation and basically means that wherever I place the Vindicare there's a 36" bubble where my opponent will be deterred from placing his Warlord or any other character model he wants to keep around--Shield Breaker followed by a Tubo-Penetrator round will handle almost any IC.

 

But the question I still have is: is it worth it? We have a lot of models that afford us a lot of flexibility and provide a lot of really dynamic, strategic value, but they still cut into the sheer number of bodies we field. So is the threat to enemy characters, special/heavy weapons, and vehicles worth the points?

[Gentlemanloser]

Yes, they are our best Assassin, make Land Raiders cry and can snipe Dangel banners.

 

With the un-nerf to Deadeye, what's not to love about this guy?

[AnImA8]

My primary concern is that he's T4 with 4++ and is 145 pts. Do you have experience using him? Is he easy to keep safe and keep relevant the whole game?

[tksolway]

You Really need a place to put him. If you can get a 3+ cover save its not too bad. Depending on the table you could probably place him right behind your aegis wall if it gives you a good line of sight.

[Gentlemanloser]

Do you have experience using him?

 

Yes. He made my opponents cry 'cheese' and 'ward dex'! AV14 dies when you look at it. If only he had Skyfire! :P

 

It's even better now, get a 100 point Dangel Libby with a Power Field Generator, and give him a 4++ Save. ;)

[GOFADK]

Do you have experience using him?

Yes. He made my opponents cry 'cheese' and 'ward dex'! AV14 dies when you look at it. If only he had Skyfire!

It's even better now, get a 100 point Dangel Libby with a Power Field Generator, and give him a 4++ Save.

He allready got 4+ Inv save ;)

[Gentlemanloser]

Doh! lol

[Morollan]

Inside a Bastion would appear to be a good place for him.

[Gentlemanloser]

Which would get the 4++ from a Dangel PFG! :P Have a Techy carry it so he can reapir the Bastion (I assume a techy can repair a Bastion?)

[Reclusiarch Darius]

Haha

 

Yeah, Vindicare was always worth it. He's our best Assassins choice by a million miles. Before Deadeye got fixed, he was solid for sniping out powerfists and wrecking heavy AV that PsyDreads won't scratch. Now, he's even more worth it. DA are going to ragequit hard when he gets rid of the Bolter Banner Turn 1. Not to mention all the other Banners they like stacking. Turbopen is now a legitimate hero threat, even knocking one down to 1 wound early on can really hamper your opponent (as they have to move out of range to avoid dying to a Hellfire or a random wound next turn). BA Priests are now dead, as are Wolf Guard attachments.

[Morollan]

Haha

 

Yeah, Vindicare was always worth it. He's our best Assassins choice by a million miles. Before Deadeye got fixed, he was solid for sniping out powerfists and wrecking heavy AV that PsyDreads won't scratch. Now, he's even more worth it. DA are going to ragequit hard when he gets rid of the Bolter Banner Turn 1. Not to mention all the other Banners they like stacking. Turbopen is now a legitimate hero threat, even knocking one down to 1 wound early on can really hamper your opponent (as they have to move out of range to avoid dying to a Hellfire or a random wound next turn). BA Priests are now dead, as are Wolf Guard attachments.

 

I like how all the targets you listed are Imperial. Whose side are you guys on? :)

[dswanick]

Haha

Yeah, Vindicare was always worth it. He's our best Assassins choice by a million miles. Before Deadeye got fixed, he was solid for sniping out powerfists and wrecking heavy AV that PsyDreads won't scratch. Now, he's even more worth it. DA are going to ragequit hard when he gets rid of the Bolter Banner Turn 1. Not to mention all the other Banners they like stacking. Turbopen is now a legitimate hero threat, even knocking one down to 1 wound early on can really hamper your opponent (as they have to move out of range to avoid dying to a Hellfire or a random wound next turn). BA Priests are now dead, as are Wolf Guard attachments.

I like how all the targets you listed are Imperial. Whose side are you guys on?

Do you even need to ask? These are the same guys who bath in the blood of Sisters (ostensibly to ward against the powers of, get this,The Blood God! ) and who's greatest hero lives in The Warp (yeah, it's because he can actually curb-stomp a Warp God in its own domain , sure it is).

[Gentlemanloser]

WAAARRRRRDDDDDDDDD! ;)

[spartan249]

I'd only ever consider taking him when he can get 2+ cover. Otherwise, he's too much of a liability via first blood for me. Having deadeye ignore LoS! is very much a good thing though, so I may have to change my stance based on that. I'll see how it pans out for me.

[Zeratul29]

finally have a reason to use him in my lists again, oh how I have missed him

[adamv6]

At first glance, inside a bastion is great. Realistically, people with any sense shoot the bastion, normally with a melta.

 

I did it to someone and he had to make 8 saves when the bastion collapsed around him.

 

Behind an Aegis defence line is best, or use a techamarine to "Bolster Defenses" and put him in there.

[adamv6]

Was it FAQ'd in the Jan 2013 FAQ (v1.2)? I can't find the entry, can someone please paste it in here?

 

EDIT: Found it! In the Greyknight FAQ :)

 

Q: Does the Vindicare Assassin’s Deadshot special rule supersede the

Look Out, Sir special rule for the purposes of Wound allocation,

meaning that the player who owns the Vindicare Assassin is still

allowed to allocate the wounds from its shooting even if their opponent

makes and passes a Look Out, Sir roll? (p53)

A: Yes.

[Hellios]

I would say the Vindicare has two main problems. These are not big problems that stop him from being viable, but issues to consider when using him. I personally think he is pretty sweet, but I don't use my GKs very often so please take my thoughts with salt.

 

1) Being shot/Killed before he does anything. Not often an issue unless your opponent gets first turn, even then it isn't that bad. The biggest threats are units that can match or exceed his range... Which isn't that many. Basically heavy weapons. If they are using dedicated anti-tank units to kill him... Well that saves something else in your army and if they use say the heavy weapons in a tactical squad they have potentially wasted those bolter shots that might have helped kill something else. Combined rolling to hit and wound with getting a save of 4+ or better pretty much all the time he should do well. The most threatening units are probably deep-striking units. However these are fairly limited and they give your assassin at least one turn to do something most of the time. If we take something like the new Deathwing squads that you might be seeing now and again as an example... Lets pretend it is a shooty squad with an assault cannon and 4 storm bolters. They come in turn one, land it a good position and DAKKA the assassin to death. Two problems... One scatter... Doesn't always go as you want it... let's not even mention the mishaps that could happen to this rather expensive unit. The second problem is... Grey Knights and the little gift they have called Warp Quake, ok you can't use it all the time but if you can it helps.

 

2) If you play on larger boards he is significantly weaker. Here I'm thinking standard games of 1,500pts and up being played on a 6X4 rather than a 4X4. He becomes easier to avoid. He also gets harder to support if your army has to move out to capture objectives and so on.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

Yeah look, he is a glass cannon. I do take him out of my larger lists, because moar PsyDread ends up being the better investment. However, below 2k he is such a great scalpel for getting rid of annoying single-wound models and heavy AV. He still dies circa Turn 3 usually, but most people are too busy gunning for my shiny Knights (who are wrecking face elsewhere) or my ever-annoying plasma servitor squads blasting away half their Troops. He is just one kill per turn after all, so he can last longer if the enemy don't put serious effort into his death. Land Raiders hate him haha. 

[KGatch113]

I'm at school with no access to my codex...and I must have missed this, but how does a Vindicare threaten high AV vehicles???? What's the mathhammer on this???

 

Thanks

 

Keith

[stephane4985]

Turbo penetrator.   str = 3 + 4d6.      (or only 4d6 for some, don't want to start that again)   But in both case, good chance to penetrate av14. And you are ap1, so +2 on the damage chart.

[KGatch113]

Interesting. I've been debating taking allies to drop pod in and melta enemy tanks....the vindicare would be cheaper, more multiuse, and not a one shot deal.....

 

4d6 should average at least 14....

 

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

[stephane4985]

He almost auto hit, 2+ with a kind of reroll, you have something like 50% chance to penetrate, and then 50% chance to explode a landraider. Not counting if the landraider has cover, the chance to blow one up is still less than satisfactory in my opinion.

[Gentlemanloser]

And he's Rending.

 

So it's S3 + 4d6 (with every '6' adding 1d3), AP1 (so +2 on the damage chart).

 

He makes vehicles cry.

 

Unless you're a Dangel LR with a PFG.  50% of the time. ;)

[IndigoJack]

I'm not a huge fan of the vindicare. Sure he's awesome, but usually its his awesomeness that get makes him a priority target. Unless you bought fortifications too, you're relying on cover to keep him alive. Since he's fearless, he can't go to ground either, so the only bonus to cover you can get is the +1 from his stealth. I've playtested him a few times, but in general I've found him to be underwhelming and not really worth his points. That being said, a vindicare + ADL + icarus lascannon is a great anti-air weapon if you can justify the point cost of it.