AlanofAngels Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 Hey guys! So, I am by no means a holy grail of info on the Dark Angels, but it is my understanding that the new codex dictates that the Lion is now fully recovered from his battle with Luthor. My question is why he has not taken the fight to the enemies of the Emperor! To that, I sort of submit my own answer; does anyone think it's possible that he is doing again what one fallen said he did during the Horus Heresy (deliberately dilly-dallying on the way to Terra to then declare allegiance to whomever won)? What if he is waiting/sleeping/painting minis/whatever on the Rock to deliberately waste time to see if Chaos does indeed soon take over (in the present millenia)? Does anyone have input on this? It was just a thought! Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chronotonic Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 i had the same train of thought because me and my company of fallen angels lead by none other then cypher wait for his command... becuase while we are loyal to luther maybe the lion has seen the error of his ways Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadDoc Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 No. The Codex says - "Hidden inside a secluded chamber at the heart of what was once the planet of Caliban, unreachable by all save the cryptic Watchers in the Dark, the mighty Primarch Lion El Jonson lies sleeping. There he slumbers, his wounds long-healed, waiting for that time when he will be needed once again, when the clarion call of battle sounds for the last time, summoning him to once again defend the Imperium of Mankind against its enemies." That sounds like the Lion still isn't (nor was he ever) a fencesitter. Edit - Line leading issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chronotonic Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 never said he did not defend the imperium...just kinda waited to show up... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gamanos Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 Easy, the man is scum. Leaving Sanguinius and Dorn to fend for their father! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadDoc Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 What is it with Dark Angels/The Lion related topics bringing out the trolls? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanofAngels Posted January 17, 2013 Author Share Posted January 17, 2013 I was merely sharing my thoughts... That said there is (as many people have keenly shared) a good spin on what was pre-existing fluff. Many things, fluff wise, have changed somewhat (including the Lion's status in the Rock). I was simply wondering if others shared my thoughts regarding his actions and motives. Obviously, most people seem to believe he is loyal and has been betrayed by one of his closest allies. That said, Jonson did "take his time" reaching Terra during the HH (regardless of the reasons behind why he did so and whether it was deliberate). I am simply suggesting that he could be doing something similar in the present era. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chronotonic Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 the smple fact is his 3 year campign against the night lords and ther primarch should have come to a halt when hs fight aganst the night haunter failed and the fact that just about all the spacial docks wern blown by the night lords.. nit saying run like a coward but maybe add your numbers to the defense of terra... .maybe get to caliban a bit quicker and talk to hs adoptive father and keep the legion intact... maybe not be such a douche... uhhh sorry love the chapter not a fan of their boss... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 Here's my question, if his wounds were healed, why wasn't he active in the reformation of the Imperium and his own Legion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vesper Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 Maybe he's waiting for his prince charming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Felix Antipodes Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 My take on it is that the Lion is being manipulated by the Watchers In The Dark. Could they be maintaining him in statis, holding him in reserve for the End of Days? Wouldn't want to be them when he was let out though; "What do you mean I've been snoozing for 10000 years!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Semper Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 The "End Times" theme is being generally played up in this edition of 40k. The general feeling is that a lot of Primarchs appear to be on the "stand by" for the final showdown but when will this time be or what will trigger it is unclear. Obviously if a Primarch of the stature of the Lion is slumbering for 10k years (most of them healing) he will not appear just to fend off the odd Chaos warband. Surely him (and the other Primarchs) that their fate is deliberately uncertain will make an impressive comeback when the time is right. Which is not now. Yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tvih Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 Here's my question, if his wounds were healed, why wasn't he active in the reformation of the Imperium and his own Legion? His wounds could just have finished healing recently. He wouldn't have been healed yet during the reformation in any case. Surely him (and the other Primarchs) that their fate is deliberately uncertain will make an impressive comeback when the time is right. Which is not now. Yet. Nor will the fluff progress that far within our lifetimes, unfortunately :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hellios Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 never said he did not defend the imperium...just kinda waited to show up... You realise the reason he stabbed Russ was because he blamed Russ for making him late? The Lion wanted to go straight to Terra; Russ wanted to help out some planets on the way. The Lion eventually agreed to help Russ: the Lion was late to Terra. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MagicMan Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 The Watchers in the Dark always confused me too. The DA are the only chapter to openly fraternize with aliens. They even let them carry their junk. Like mini alien butlers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Semper Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 Nor will the fluff progress that far within our lifetimes, unfortunately :P I'm not so sure about that. The rumors had it that there was a lot of internal debate in GW to move the fluff forward in this edition but in the end they decided against. Which might mean that the next edition (whenever this might be - I suppose it will take at least 5 years) could be the one to move things forward! :o This is all speculative of course... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gamanos Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 Not trolling, just after his portrayal so far through the Heresy, I honestly believe he is not one of the good guys. Just a primarch who is selfish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanksie Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 I always expected for everything to degrade and for all to seem lost when Russ rocks up with his magic fruit, Corax and Mr Salamander guy to rock up and Dorn and Mr white scar to reappear. And for the Imperium to be on the front foot for a while before some other balancing act comes along later. All of this to happen AFER the Horus heresy series has covered all the important parts to give the writers some new material. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piousservant Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 *coughs* "Before he openly displayed his nature, Warmaster Horus ordered the most staunchly loyal Legions, the ones he know he could not corrupt, to distant warzones. So were the Blood Angels, the Ultramarines and the Dark Angels unable to count Horus' initial moves." (Codex Dark Angels, page 8) I think the Dark Angels were pretty loyal. But wait, there's more: "Upon finally hearing of the disasters taking place, Lion 'El'Jonson hurried his legion back to Terra. Their journey was delayed by warp storms, Daemon attacks and traps set by the traitorous legions..." (Codex Dark Angels, page 8) So there was definately no deliberate taking it slowly to get to Terra. Can we lay that all to rest now..? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hellios Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 I think the problems with the Lion can be put down to social disorders of some kind. He is has obvious issues with empathy and so on. It might also be why some people perceive him to be more arrogant than the other Primarchs; a symptom of some disorders is where the person seems to be aloof or arrogant but it is actually a defence mechanism to help them deal with others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facmanpob Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 After 10,000 years he's got a lot of back episodes of Eastenders and Coronation Street to catch up on! He'll be out to play once he's caught up! ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantras Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 The question of the Lion's loyalty was raised by Astellan in the BL novel "Angels of Darkness" and thoroughly stomped down by AD-B's "Savage Weapons". Loyalty is its own reward. The real question should be about the different interpretations of loyalty. Horus thought he was being "loyal" to the Imperium, Guilliman also when he founded Imperium Secondus. The Lion didn't trust any of the other Primarchs, which given that half of them (including the most loyal had just betrayed the Emperor) is fairly justified. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dahawi Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 As with all things it's down to your own interpretation, even more so with the Dark Angels. I don't think even GW know and deliberately leave any facts about the Dark Angels vague so that they can suggest any possibility and it be plausible. For me The Lion is as loyal as they come, he just wasn't very good with people. The point of view that he could be a traitor or on the fence is certainly possible and if that interests you in the Dark Angels and their background then it's good thing, even if other people disagree :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facmanpob Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 The problem with the Lion? Paranoia! Pure and Simple - he was screwed over by Perturabo on Diamat after Jonson trusted him, and he managed to convince himself that Guilliman was empire building with Sanguinius. I think the only other Primarch that he actually trusted was Curze, because the two of them were very alike, and then he was only able to trust that Curze would do anything and everything to see Jonson dead. Add that to the fact that his own men targeted the Emperor in an assassination attempt the very day the Emperor arrived at Caliban, and that he had to send Luther and Zahariel away because they almost didn't bother diffusing a bomb sent to kill Jonson.....its not surprising that he's cold, insular and extremely nervous about giving away secrets and plans. Pretty miserable existence for a Primarch really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EPK Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 The easy answer is, he is not yet needed. We can all guess at what sort of chaos the return of even one Primarch would cause on the Imperium after thousands of years without any. The High Lords might be out of a job and would not like it. Perhaps the Watchers are no different from the Cabal. They see the big story. If he awakes early, it may have unforseen consequences for their preferred timeline. On the watchers... I would venture a guess that only the higher echelons of the Chapters "fraternize" with them. In fact, I'd say anyone not within the Inner Circle may not even know of their existence. The models are representations in my mind, others not privy to the Watchers may see them as simply some diminutive Chapter Serf, or very possible not see them at all. A regular DA marine might be appalled if he suddenly found out we were working with xenos. But why do the Inner Cirlce bother with xenos? Because that is how it's always been, since the Lion was clearing out the savage beasts of Calibanm, indeed since he first broke from his birth pod. Caliban was the Watcher's home and the Rock is what's left of it. The Rock belongs to the Watchers as much as the Unforgiven. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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