Brother Immolator Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 Today is the wall banging emoticon day Throw the SW into the traitor lists and Leman Russ as well. Because you know, when you sit back to relax for three years drinking coffee awaiting the greatest battle of the era to go through, you need partners. And Leman would wholeheartetly agree to the Lions plan to allow their father die. In fact he might have suggested it to the Lion: RUS:Isnt it great that Horus is trying to kill dad and the Hunter decided to try and stop us? You know we can wait for a couple of years.... LION:You know my furry, eh I mean my dear brother that makes sence. Lets orchastrate some defeats, jeorardize our very survival (since Horus himself already knows that we are a threat to him and IS OBVIOUS WHY HE SEND US TO THE FREAKING END OF THE UNIVERSE), then turn back, defeat them and go to terra AFTER THE END OF THE BATTLE BECAUSE WARP TRAVEL IS PERFECTLY STABLE AND THERE ARE NO THREATS ON THE WAY and take our chances with Horus. Because you know, all that DOES MAKE SENSE. And because you know, Nobody is going to write a novel where my legion is getting slaughtered by the Nightlords. Oh noes that was only Cosplay. I am going to bang my head a bit more excuse me. BTW the capitals above are not to declare frustation but emphasis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EPK Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 But wait, there's more: "Upon finally hearing of the disasters taking place, Lion 'El'Jonson hurried his legion back to Terra. Their journey was delayed by warp storms, Daemon attacks and traps set by the traitorous legions..." (Codex Dark Angels, page 8) So there was definately no deliberate taking it slowly to get to Terra. Can we lay that all to rest now..? Shame they didn't mention Thramas. He would have hurried back immediately if he had not been delayed for 3 years by the Night Lords. If would be nice if GW coordinated with BL a little there. I didn't get through the fluff, did they mention the Thramas Cruasade at all or do they sort of just gloss over the Horus Heresy with just a few passages? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EPK Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 And because you know, Nobody is going to write a novel where my legion is getting slaughtered by the Nightlords. Oh noes that was only Cosplay Let's not go as far as "slaughtered", that term is better saved for what the Dark Angels did to the Night Lords in the final stages of that Crusade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Immolator Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 And because you know, Nobody is going to write a novel where my legion is getting slaughtered by the Nightlords. Oh noes that was only Cosplay Let's not go as far as "slaughtered", that term is better saved for what the Dark Angels did to the Night Lords in the final stages of that Crusade. Yes because you know, they run out of coffee. Agreed, though that schizo from the Nightlords cant remember the name, teared a new one to a few dozens of marines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facmanpob Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 Agreed, though that schizo from the Nightlords cant remember the name, teared a new one to a few dozens of marines. Sevatar :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Immolator Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 Agreed, though that schizo from the Nightlords cant remember the name, teared a new one to a few dozens of marines. Sevatar Yeah that one! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EPK Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 Agreed, though that schizo from the Nightlords cant remember the name, teared a new one to a few dozens of marines. Sevatar Yeah that one! Funny chap, that one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phoebus Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 That said, Jonson did "take his time" reaching Terra during the HH (regardless of the reasons behind why he did so and whether it was deliberate). the smple fact is his 3 year campign against the night lords and ther primarch should have come to a halt when hs fight aganst the night haunter failed ... You gentlemen need to read the short story "Savage Weapons". ;) Unless the Lion is directly lying to his subordinates, they tried to leave Thramas in order to reach Terra specifically (Age of Darkness, pg 266). They couldn't, due to the Warp Storms that were affecting other parts of the galaxy as well. Here's my question, if his wounds were healed, why wasn't he active in the reformation of the Imperium and his own Legion? Different timing. The Lion and the Dark Angels Legion arrive at Caliban before Roboute Guilliman is appointed to the High Lords of Terra (as Lord Commander of the Imperium) and before the Codex Astartes was implemented. Codex: Dark Angels makes that very clear, as the process of the Legion dividing into Chapters is described as happening after the Lion disappears. My take on it is that the Lion is being manipulated by the Watchers In The Dark. Could they be maintaining him in statis, holding him in reserve for the End of Days? Could be. The Watchers are heavily implied as being part of the same Cabal shown in "Legion", which was trying to recruit primarchs to fight Chaos. In fact, the same xenos state they tried to recruit the Dark Angels way before the Alpha Legion. They ended up passing on them, but after the worst case scenario came to pass (Horus losing, the galaxy stagnating), perhaps they couldn't be picky. As such, they're holding the Lion as a trump card for the "End Times" scenario. On the watchers... I would venture a guess that only the higher echelons of the Chapters "fraternize" with them. In fact, I'd say anyone not within the Inner Circle may not even know of their existence. The models are representations in my mind, others not privy to the Watchers may see them as simply some diminutive Chapter Serf, or very possible not see them at all.... A regular DA marine might be appalled if he suddenly found out we were working with xenos. There's a lot that can be achieved via conditioning, hypno-therapy, psycho-indoctrination, etc. ;) But why do the Inner Cirlce bother with xenos? Because that is how it's always been, since the Lion was clearing out the savage beasts of Calibanm, indeed since he first broke from his birth pod. Caliban was the Watcher's home and the Rock is what's left of it. The Rock belongs to the Watchers as much as the Unforgiven. Exactly. They're not just a xenos; they are part of the Chapter's mythos. Shame they didn't mention Thramas. He would have hurried back immediately if he had not been delayed for 3 years by the Night Lords. If would be nice if GW coordinated with BL a little there. I didn't get through the fluff, did they mention the Thramas Cruasade at all or do they sort of just gloss over the Horus Heresy with just a few passages? The latter, unfortunately. Not even a hint toward Mitch Scanlon's storyline on why Luther was sent back - other than the cover story of "training new Space Marines". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
publius Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 First of all, remember to not feed the trolls! They have been around ever since Gav Thorpe wrote AoD. I have every Dark Angels codex since 2nd edition, and the Lion has always secretly been sleeping in stasis, to return when needed a la King Arthur. There are a number of loyalist Primarchs who may have "survived" to this day, and Games Workshop has had the apocalyptic end-times preparation theme for a while. For example Roboute Guilliman has been in stasis for thousands of years now, his wounds slowly healing. Leman Russ has diisappeared mysteriously, vowing to be back "for the end times". Even Jaghatai Khan disappeared into the warp, which may have been a death sentence, or he may pop out at some point because the Warp does stuff like this. In addition, a disturbingly high proportion of the chaos primarch are alive and Demon Princes on demon worlds in the Eye of Terror. Whew. Does anybody here remember Cypher and the Star-child? Talk about old school fluff that GW has been toning down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngelVeto Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 And doom rider... I would have loved to see doom rider come back wen the chaos dex came out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Landrain Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 One bit of the codex involving the Watchers really interestes me. It involves succession of a new Supreme Grand Master, how the candidate goes deep into the dungeons, and at the last door enters for some kind of test at the Arch of Truth. (pg 52) And sometimes the new SGM doesn't return.... It is mentioned in such a way to asume that this has actually ahppened before... So the Watchers have to approve of the SGM? That to me is a huge revelation and surely would not sit well with other Chapters or the Inquisition... It furthers begs the question of who or what are the Watchers... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthMarko Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 never said he did not defend the imperium...just kinda waited to show up... You realise the reason he stabbed Russ was because he blamed Russ for making him late? The Lion wanted to go straight to Terra; Russ wanted to help out some planets on the way. The Lion eventually agreed to help Russ: the Lion was late to Terra. He didn't stab Russ, he actually saved Russ (who ripped his chestplate and plunged to his sword) from killing himself by pulling the sword in the last moment... Also those who think Lion was disloyal and waited: - There is only the Emperor, none is worthy on inheriting that mantle." - Lion El'Jonson - also there's another quote about him no sooner bending his knee to Guilliman, than to Horus and his belief they're both idiots Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apothecary Vaddon Posted January 19, 2013 Share Posted January 19, 2013 For example Roboute Guilliman has been in stasis for thousands of years now, his wounds slowly healing. Not quite. If he's just in stasis, then no, he's not getting healed, and it's as the UM believe: all that talk is just pilgrim banter. However, if knowledge of artifacts known as the Heart of Iron was lost and it's actually on Guilliman (no one has noticed it/it's hidden/whatever), then there's a glimmer of hope because depending on how one was to interpret Angel Exterminatus, the Heart of Iron can heal bodies within stasis. It just takes a really, really, really long time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haranin Posted January 19, 2013 Share Posted January 19, 2013 In the Legion book, the cabal explicitly states they tried the Dark Angels. I am crossing my fingers that Zek ends up taking over as Cypher Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Immolator Posted January 19, 2013 Share Posted January 19, 2013 There is only the Emperor, none is worthy on inheriting that mantle." - Lion El'Jonson - also there's another quote about him no sooner bending his knee to Guilliman, than to Horus and his belief they're both idiots And also that he is willing to sacrifice the DAs and destroy every other legion to the last man if that means maintaining the emperor on the throne. I dont remember any other primarch stating that he is willing to fight against everyone at the same time for his father. Instead I remember Primarchs who kept their legions intact and came later to lay claim to thrones and leadership. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aerixis Posted January 19, 2013 Share Posted January 19, 2013 The Lion is waiting until Cypher arrives at Terra with the Emperors lost sons and daughters to re-enact the birthing of a God. He will use the Lion Sword to simultaneously sacrifice all the children and the Emperor himself, flooding the Immaterium with his psychic might and 10,000 years of offspring bearing fragments of his soul, force the Rebirth as it was in the beginning and arise anew to rebuild the Imperium from the Second Old Night at his father's side as he did in his youth. Only then can the Lion atone for his lack of judgement at the Gateway to Terra at the time of his fathers fall. The Unforgiven shall be reunited and redeemed, and the First Legion shall be whole again. Such a deed is the reason he is waiting. Nothing else is of consequence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phoebus Posted January 19, 2013 Share Posted January 19, 2013 What do you mean by lack of judgement? (Sorry, didn't meant to sound rude! :) ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shintuhadoken Posted January 19, 2013 Share Posted January 19, 2013 Seriously, they must just be waiting for a time to break out all of the returning primachs in a re-run of the eye of terror campaign. In the chaos codex it states that the deamon primarchs were leading abbaddons forces in at the start of the 13th black crusade (I don't remember fighting a battle against any of them). I just gives them a chance to break out a codex eye of terror 2.0 with rules for primarchs sometime down the line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Immolator Posted January 19, 2013 Share Posted January 19, 2013 Bring them on! (spits on the side as he chambers combi plasma), I have a couple words to tell 'em! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthMarko Posted January 20, 2013 Share Posted January 20, 2013 There is only the Emperor, none is worthy on inheriting that mantle." - Lion El'Jonson - also there's another quote about him no sooner bending his knee to Guilliman, than to Horus and his belief they're both idiots And also that he is willing to sacrifice the DAs and destroy every other legion to the last man if that means maintaining the emperor on the throne. I dont remember any other primarch stating that he is willing to fight against everyone at the same time for his father. Instead I remember Primarchs who kept their legions intact and came later to lay claim to thrones and leadership. QFT - even that bird of change :-) teases him that he will be remembered as a neutral, because he was engaged on the other side of the galaxy but people tend to forget that... That's why enjoy Lion and Russ...I' mean they are like vanilla and chocolate ice cream - so different and so good together but both 100% loyal to the Emperor and no one else... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ultramarine373 Posted January 20, 2013 Share Posted January 20, 2013 suprising nobody has mentioned the reaction ANY primarch would have to the current uber religious state of the Imperium hell i think the Ecclesarchy (spelling?) would try to kill them to keep them from tearing it down. the watchers bother me some they are in my view definetly holding the LIon back some how. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aerixis Posted January 20, 2013 Share Posted January 20, 2013 There was a big thing amongst our crew in the local GW back when "everything you have been told was a lie" was circling amongst the redshirts and managers about the High Lords of Terra keeping the Emperor imprisoned upon the Golden Throne, basically turning down the restorative/supportive effects of the Throne to pacify him and prevent him from reawakening. Imagine you've spent 10,000 years running the Imperium in a manner COMPLETELY BACKWARDS to the tennets by which it was forged, then the guy coming back and kicking the seven bells out of you. Oh no........this is OUR Imperium. The next rift to carve its way through the Galaxy will be rent betwixt the Emperor and his Sons and the High Lords of the Imperium, to which the Horus Heresy will seem like a playground brawl. The Unforgiven will reunite with their Primarch who shall gather his sons from the corners of space and time, Fallen and Loyal both, and bring the wrath of the First Legion and the Pax Imperialis back to the womb of mankind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Immolator Posted January 20, 2013 Share Posted January 20, 2013 In the above scenario, there will be no highlords imho. The custodian guard can deal with them if the emperor wants to deal with them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aerixis Posted January 20, 2013 Share Posted January 20, 2013 If Eisenhorn and Ravenor have taught me anything, HOW FAR WILL THE TREACHERY GO!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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