Nehekhare Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 Now that 5 Noise Marines with a blastmaster are a viable choice and Baledrakes even more constitue a standart, two questions arise: 1) How to deal with 2+ Armor --> are oblits in units of 3+ worth the morale risk? is the triple ectofiend finally worth the points? 2) HQ of choice --> Lucius sucks, so how to unlock NM as troops? How to equip a slaanesh lord? what unit to run him with (or to outflank with steed)? are blastmasters worth taking NM even as elites? discuss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zhorzh Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 --> are oblits in units of 3+ worth the morale risk? Don't know how to answer that. I don't think that Morale is an issue with Oblits - mine ran away only once, and because of bad luck. On the other hand I had random results with one unit of 3 Oblits - they kick ass in one game and in the next they do nothing... How to equip a slaanesh lord? what unit to run him with (or to outflank with steed)? are blastmasters worth taking NM even as elites? 1. If I had a Slaanesh Lord, I would want to unlock NM as troops, in which case I would run a gunline army. I would give him the Brand and maybe a Terminator armor, and call it a day. Alternatively: Steed/Bike, Mace, Sigil, Mutation. 2. If I ran a Steed Slaany Lord I'd outflank him with bikers. 3. Depends on how much you value them over Terminators. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zhukov Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 1) How to deal with 2+ Armor --> are oblits in units of 3+ worth the morale risk? is the triple ectofiend finally worth the points? 2+ isn't the only problem, ending up with a lack of S9+/melta is equally annoying, in case you're up against jokers who still play with Land Raiders. Meltabombs on I5 Noise marines help out too! A bit at least lol. So how to solve this? Well, weight of fire is kinda oke against Termies. Basicly, I'm not sure yet myself, I'm working on it as we speak. Maybe just take 3x2 Oblits as we used to (and which I still do), or 2x2 Oblits + 1 Havoc squad. Basicly, you most likely need Oblits. Other choices lack Ap2 or lack the ability to deal with high AV's. Another thing you can do: Running Huron + MoS Lord + 2x 15 CSM with plasma. It's more viable now that we can leave Blastmaster squads behind. 2) HQ of choice --> Lucius sucks, so how to unlock NM as troops? How to equip a slaanesh lord? what unit to run him with (or to outflank with steed)? are blastmasters worth taking NM even as elites? Brand of Skalanthrax on a bike, no retinue needed, just have him in a cultist blob or something, really. Probably give him a meltabomb and Claw too, so he can actually kill something in CC too now and then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Excessus Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 ending up with a lack of S9+/melta is equally annoying, in case you're up against jokers who still play with Land Raiders. Go for a Slaanesh sorcerer, there is a nice chance of getting the power that makes all sonic weapons +1S against the affected unit, which makes blastmasters S9 blasts... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zhukov Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 ending up with a lack of S9+/melta is equally annoying, in case you're up against jokers who still play with Land Raiders. Go for a Slaanesh sorcerer, there is a nice chance of getting the power that makes all sonic weapons +1S against the affected unit, which makes blastmasters S9 blasts... Meh, that's a 2nd HQ, maybe at 2k. S9 is hardly reliable against Land Raiders, if you get the power in the first place. Besides, doesn't help against Terminators either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Amarel Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 Brand of Skalanthrax on a bike, no retinue needed, just have him in a cultist blob or something, really. Probably give him a meltabomb and Claw too, so he can actually kill something in CC too now and then. I'm wondering about breaking out my 3.5 Slaanesh Lt with Jump Pack and giving him the Brand. You lose the extra T, but do gain some extra manoeuverability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nehekhare Posted January 17, 2013 Author Share Posted January 17, 2013 Yeah 2nd HQ is really out of the question for me at least. don't think the symphony of pain power to be of any worth for BMs, and sonic blasters are still not any good. Hm, the TDA/BB Lord appeals to me most (to the point that i like the idea), mainly because I hate bikes (which is kind of annoying since they're just too good this ed). The FW Huron model would do great for this one (with a claw). in a crowd of 30 fearless cultists, 3 flamers. okay, possible. still nothing against 2+/LRs. could be DSed with either melta or plasma terminators (which in turn would solve some of the Ap2 issues). not optimal, but good. another possibility would be to join him to a squad of 3 oblits and walk them up the field, but then they'd have to forgo MoN (bad). then there's the outflanking steed lord (LC/PW/SoC). obvious retinue would be (unmarked) spawn. nice, but doesn't solve the problem bike lord (same) with bikers. I wouldn't take more than 5 (2xmelta, MB/maybe PW champ), but is MoS (not bad) and FnP icon worth it for the unit? and then again: I hate bikes So still, MoN tops MoS on most things in C:CSM, which makes the lord choice even more difficult. is the slaanesh build better than a nurgle list with 2x5 BM NMs als elites? p.s.: I guess since nobody mentioned it, the ectofiend isn't better than oblits in any case. 24" really kills it, if armor 12 didn't already. shame, cool model Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RapatoR Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 p.s.: I guess since nobody mentioned it, the ectofiend isn't better than oblits in any case. 24" really kills it, if armor 12 didn't already. shame, cool model Depends. It is fire magnet after all and againts those DSing 2+ armies creates 30" bubble of no deepstriking here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zhukov Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 More and more I'm questioning the viability of taking both Blastmaster ánd Helldrakes, they pretty much share the exact same strenghts and weaknesses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Amarel Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 More and more I'm questioning the viability of taking both Blastmaster ánd Helldrakes, they pretty much share the exact same strenghts and weaknesses. That's a very good point. I was having trouble trying to get them to fit into my current list (as their role is already covered by the Heldrake, I just hadn't put the two and two together). But, in a 'no-flyers' game, that some people still like, they're a very worthwhile replacement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nehekhare Posted January 17, 2013 Author Share Posted January 17, 2013 good point indeed. also, it should be considered that blast masters scatter, while baleflamers don't, so are kind of risky if combined with outflanking/assault troops. I'm eager to learn how the NM lists fare on the battlefield, maybe it'll just settle down on including a squad or two of elite NM in your regular army. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noctus Cornix Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 Ya, see I'm not quite sure I agree with you on the matter of Lucius. He's quite a bargain for the points he's worth over some of the other HQ choices. He diminishes any enemies he's close to of an attack, which can be very expensive for alot of enemies, he's got a solid baseline, a special ability that makes him actually hilariously good against many monstrous creatures like a bloodthirsters and avatars of khaine, as well as stupid ridiculous HQ choices with high WS(and in 40k today, that's alot of people), comes with a free doom siren, and his special armour saves can kill terminators. Put him in a squad with icon of excess and he's running with feel no pain at the same time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zhukov Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 good point indeed. also, it should be considered that blast masters scatter, while baleflamers don't, so are kind of risky if combined with outflanking/assault troops. I'm eager to learn how the NM lists fare on the battlefield, maybe it'll just settle down on including a squad or two of elite NM in your regular army. For 1750 I can't quite make something I'm happy with, but for 2k I find it more managable: MoN Lord; Bike, Brand, powerfist 155 Helldrake 170 Helldrake 170 5 Noise Marines; Blastmaster 125 5 Noise Marines; Blastmaster 125 5 Plague marines; 2x plasma 150 5 Plague marines; 2x plasma 150 5 Plague marines; 2x plasma 150 5 Plague marines; 2x plasma 150 7 Plague Marines; 2x melta 188 3 Obliterators; MoN, VotLW 237 5 Havocs; 4x autocannon 115 5 Havocs; 4x autocannon 115 Total: 2000 And indeed, as elites in this case, which is affordable at 2k. At 1750 I'm constantly running against the "I'll get beat by Terminators or Daemons or Nids" wall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nehekhare Posted January 17, 2013 Author Share Posted January 17, 2013 @noctus cornix: not impressed. Lucius will propably always be in a challenge, so his lash won't reduce many attacks. then he's only AP3, which is bad against most characters. yes, his armor inflicts AP2 hits, but will he have an armor save against things that themselves have a 2+ armor? unlikely. he's nice for the WS = A and the doom siren, but lots of attacks and an ap3 flamer is nothing unique to him. for 5pts less, huron or khârn are just SO much better... @zhukov: looks good. I'd give the lord TDA and run him with the oblits, maybe change some PMs into aegis + cultists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noctus Cornix Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 But doesn't the new FAQ say specifically that his artifact is always in effect, so it should technically work even when he's in combat. I dont see his standard attacks being AP3 being all that big of a deal. Less and less characters are getting getting 2+ armour saves these days and even when you do come against them, you can throw 5-7 attacks that you're almost sure to wound with using the shred ability. He's going to start failing saves some time. Also keep in mind that alot of characters that have 2+ saves are generally running around with 3++ with their precious little storm shields so simply having an ap2 weapon doesn't honestly help you all that much. This is of course just my two cents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zhukov Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 @zhukov: looks good. I'd give the lord TDA and run him with the oblits, maybe change some PMs into aegis + cultists. TDA not really needed, can just allocate non-S10 to Oblits if you want with LoS (in the case you want to give Oblits his fearless in some games). I wouldn't want to give up the versatality of having him on a bike, ever, but that's me. Ye you can run Aegis + cultists, that's more personal preference imo, doesn't matter much. Same as running with Rhinos, just run 2x5 and 2x6 PM's in rhinos if you want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nehekhare Posted January 17, 2013 Author Share Posted January 17, 2013 @noctus: that the artefact is always in effect doesn't mean that it's effect has a wider range than what it says in the description: base contact. and in a challenge, that's just 1 guy. remember that from 3+ to 2+ you double the amount of saves passed and that a weapon that does not have AP2 only causes 1/6th of the unsaved wounds compared to one that does. @zhukov: bike is propably better, but I don't like bikes and if I wouldn't take a fortification, I wouldn't play IW ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Ambroz Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 So we now have a decent choice in elites too in NM. Hmm. If someone wanted to keep running a spawn + juggerlord combo as their first HQ choice, is there a decent setup for a 2nd slanneshi lord to make NM troops? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zhukov Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 So we now have a decent choice in elites too in NM. Hmm. If someone wanted to keep running a spawn + juggerlord combo as their first HQ choice, is there a decent setup for a 2nd slanneshi lord to make NM troops? Sure, if you don't use the Brand on the juggerlord already. Brand + extras makes a Lord okay per definition. It's like a mini-helldrake able to assault some targets and giving a unit extra wounds + fearless ^^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Ambroz Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 I use an AOBF on him, so I didn't think you could take two artifacts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 isnt just one unit of oblits kind of a problematic when you get to play IG lists ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zhukov Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 isnt just one unit of oblits kind of a problematic when you get to play IG lists ? Because of Leman Russes you mean? Maybe. Tbh, 40k isn't really balanced at the moment, I'm at the brink of accepting each list will have some "not-so-good" matchups. And hey, you can always krak grenade them to death turn 5 or 6 :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 Because of Leman Russes you mean? Maybe. yep. mecha spam the way it was done in 5th is dead , but with the shift to plasma and many people trying to play slogger lists av14 when used in +3 number gets kind of a good.. Tbh, 40k isn't really balanced at the moment, I'm at the brink of accepting each list will have some "not-so-good" matchups. probably .Am playing too much IG or IG mixed lists right now . they either play too easy or are too good for what they should be doing at1500-1999 points . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minionboy Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 I'll be running a lord with Burning Brand, Lightning Claw and MoS. It's cheap at 125 and will help a bit with backline defense, without costing an arm and a leg. If you want to be a bit more proactive with him, put him on a Steed and he can outflank with a cultist blob, or put him on a bike for some survivability. Personally, I go for being as cheap as possible, while still having some function. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zhukov Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 probably .Am playing too much IG or IG mixed lists right now . they either play too easy or are too good for what they should be doing at1500-1999 points . They're too good imo. The only reason I don't ally them to my Chaos is because we can't stick our HQ in their blob lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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